Hate Groups Are Infiltrating the Military, Group Asserts

[yabasta 0]

certain people. hmmm. is that like you people?

It means people of a particular disposition or belief.

as for how you've insulted people who keep this country free, i'm not going to lead you to water because you won't drink. nor will i explain to you how america is free. i really don't have the time for classroom instruction which you obviously need. i do recommend you try the local library, there is lots of reading for you to do.

Well you can by all means tell yourself that i don`t read but the fact remains that your freedom is very limited. Your freedom might be more or less free than the person standing nearest you. My point was that freedom is in the hands of few and the military i believe is actually enslaving people. By that i mean the people in it aswell.

you made that mistake all on your own. no one else mentioned it but you. hmm, interesting eh?

so now you finally state you dislike the millitary! we are finally getting somewhere!

You caused the "mistake" by your poorly worded post. I simply responded to what you said. A dislike of the concept does not mean i hate every person in the military. As somebody once said if a soldier comes up to and is alright i will be civil and even friendly with them. If a soldier comes up to me and is a ####### i will respond accordingly. It is the same with cops. If acop is a fair person you will not mind them doing their job(unless you have done soemthing wrong) but if they talk down to you or beat you or anything negative then you will lose respect for them and it will eventually colour your view of all cops to a degree. You will always be expecting the ####### if the ####### is the norm. It is up to the military and those who advocate it to improve the public relations.

the reason for stating who it was that brought such to a vote was so you'd be better informed. if you took that as me labeling you as a democrat you're completely wrong.

Well i had heard this before but my statement was not that Republicans wanted a draft. My statement was along the lines of being suprised that they had not had one yet. This was based on the obvious strain to troop numbers with the conflicts aroudn the world etc. It seems odd to bring up democrats in a debate that is not party poltical.

so now you are an expert in the aryan nation too, just like you were about the iq of the military?

I never claimed to be an expert but if you can counter my opinion or perhaps persuade me otherwise then by all means try. It is much easier to condemn me than it is to persuade me right? I don`t recall mentionign the IQ of the military. I also think you will find many serial killers apparently have above average IQ`s. My point was about intelligence of a lot of soldiers. Again as i stated before i did not say all or most.

before you get too deep into this tattoo bit, i'd suggest you do some research on what kind of tattoos are permitted in the military and where they may be on the person

Well i am aware there are rules about tattoos showing. The tattoo prejudice will usually come from an employer first with regular jobs. Some jobs are less picky though. I don`t know the exact rules regarding military tattoos and imagine it will be different for different nations. It is not a point worth researchign in any depth as i don`t plan to join the army or get a tattoo of Hitler. It was a general point mr literal.

oh yes, shoot me for f'ing up a post once in a while. if you'll check my history i'm doing better. now is that all you got to complain about?

I did not suggest that you should be shot. You have me confused with a violent irrational person. It simply annoyed me that you constantly failed to get it right. Sorry if you got offended but you have not exactly shown me any respect so you ar elucky i still show you as much as i do.

It was a small gripe and the only other complaint i have about you is how you don`t even try to understand my points. You simply "wait for your turn" it would seem. I am not here to try and make you look foolish or prove you wrong. I am merely stating my views on the topic at hand. I knew my comment would piss you off but it is what i truly believe so i said it. Of course violent small minded people will want to run around with a gun. They might even fix some tanks and pitch tents if it means they get to shoot a gun.

[Alex+R 0]

are you guys seriously still at it?

[yabasta 0]

sounds very rude. What are you implying?

[Alex+R 0]

yknow, you n charles....still at it.... that's about it.

[almaty 19]

keeps going and going...

[Veiled Princess 1]

[yabasta 0]

*other batteries are available.

**Bunny sold separately

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I personally feel that everyone should do a tour in the military as that a little discipline in one’s life goes a long way.

I would aggree with this statement if you replaced "tour in the military" with tour of goverment service. This could be 2 years in the peace corps, America Corps, FEMA, Coast Guard, and even yes the US military.

The difference between military service and government service is the 'boot camp' phase. This is a huge difference. For me this is the defining difference. The peace corps, America Corps and FEMA are all missing this.

Though Heinlein addresses this in 'Starship Troopers' as only military or government service giving people the right to vote.

"Starship Troopers is a political essay as well as a novel. Large portions of the book take place in classrooms, with Rico and other characters engaged in debates with their History and Moral Philosophy teachers, who serve as stand-ins for Heinlein. The overall theme of the book is to demonstrate that social responsibility requires individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy where suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of social service'

"Almost half a century after its publication, Starship Troopers is on the reading lists of the United States Army and the United States Marine Corps, and is the only science fiction novel on the reading list at four of the five United States military academies."

Edited July 8, 2006 by rch99

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The difference between military service and government service is the 'boot camp' phase. This is a huge difference. For me this is the defining difference. The peace corps, America Corps and FEMA are all missing this.

Though Heinlein addresses this in 'Starship Troopers' as only military or government service giving people the right to vote.

"Starship Troopers is a political essay as well as a novel. Large portions of the book take place in classrooms, with Rico and other characters engaged in debates with their History and Moral Philosophy teachers, who serve as stand-ins for Heinlein. The overall theme of the book is to demonstrate that social responsibility requires individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy where suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of social service'

"Almost half a century after its publication, Starship Troopers is on the reading lists of the United States Army and the United States Marine Corps, and is the only science fiction novel on the reading list at four of the five United States military academies."

The criticism there of course is that the philosophy requires an implicit trust in the integrity of your leaders.

[Artegal 1]

The difference between military service and government service is the 'boot camp' phase. This is a huge difference. For me this is the defining difference. The peace corps, America Corps and FEMA are all missing this.

Okay I think the importance of the "boot camp phase" is overstated, and being a military veteran, I can tell you first hand that some people just do not belong in "boot camp" or in the military--but still every citizen/prospective citizen should have an opportunity to serve the country in a capacity. Put the emphasis on service and not military.

Furthermore our military is asked and tasked to do non-military things--riot control, border patrol, drug intradiction, humanitarian relife, civilian infrastructure support--civil engineering, and nation building, etc.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Artegal

[*Robert* 2]

The difference between military service and government service is the 'boot camp' phase. This is a huge difference. For me this is the defining difference. The peace corps, America Corps and FEMA are all missing this.

Okay I think the importance of the "boot camp phase" is overstated, and being a military veteran, I can tell you first hand that some people just do not belong in "boot camp" or in the military--but still every citizen/prospective citizen should have an opportunity to serve the country in a capacity. Put the emphasis on service and not military.

Furthermore our military is asked and tasked to do non-military things--riot control, border patrol, drug intradiction, humanitarian relife, civilian infrastructure support--civil engineering, and nation building, etc.

Boot camp certainly isn't what it used to be, so any form of conditioning, both mental and physical, can be a good thing, if it's done right.

The military, due to governmental consolidation, funding, and other reasons has become more diversified and doing jobs that aren't normally associated as being performed by the military. That makes the service members more productive and attractive to the civilian sector when and if they leave the military.

As military threats decrease, technology developed for the military has become more widely used in the civilian sector, which IMO, is a good thing.

[ual777 0]

So the dumb ones are only given a big gun and taught to shoot? That's a little scary to me.

I'm not trying to bring down the military. I'm just pointing out that the scores to get in are low. You couldn't pass to the next grade in school with scores like that... you should not be allowed to enter something sooooooooooooooo important as the US military (any branch). The US military should be filled with ONLY the best and brightest since they can be, in effect, completely in control of other peoples lives.

I thought that was relevant to this topic BECAUSE from what I understood from the news reports, the accusation is that those scores have actually been lowered to let those rednecks/racists/nazis in. To attrack them.

So have they always been so low or have they recently been lowered? Are they waiving the requirement to have a HS diploma or GED for certain individuals? If so, why?

I do not support the US military in a lot of things but that doesn't mean I don't support the individual troops. I pray all of them remain safe and come home to be reunited with their families. I'm sure you were a fine soldier who would have never dreamed of doing any of the things some of your fellow soldiers have committed and I commend you for risking your life to keep us safe.

However, I don't agree with what the US military is being used for these days. I do not see that it is defending us so much as oppressing others. I do not think the US military should be occupying foreign lands or policing the world. It's not our business and the lives of many brave men and women are not worth it. Too many people die in war. I understand, if it's something that can't be avoided, the need to fight but I don't see that the military is doing that right now. I see it is occupying oil countries and fighting bush's war of greed and killing innocent people as well as being killed themselves in the process. I don't blame the individuals... I blame the "commander and chief". I pray that those individuals who are there because they have no choice in the matter OR because they honestly believe they are doing something good in the name of freedom will return home to live happy lives with the ones they're fighting for. The ones who are there just to kill and rape can stay there after the US pulls out for all I care.

Thanks for the compliment. I truly appreciate it.

I agree with you to an extent on the use of the US military. However, we as Marines (and soldiers) are taught to fight and win. That is our job. We do not make policy, hell we aren't even supposed to enforce it, but when the orders come down, your job is to execute them. (of course torching villages is generally not one you follow.)

As far as the ASVAB goes, the sample test questions are only about a fourth of the total test. The other 75% is based on technical skills such as mechanics, moderate to advanced electrical circuts ETC.

The guys who are in the infantry are not really supid in the traditional sense, they are just simple. High scores go to fields where advanced thinking is needed (i.e. intel, satillite imagery and interpretation, mechanics, communications, etc.). Lower scores tend to go towards infantry, armor, motor transport, and artillery. Why? Because combat arms are rather straight forward. You learn the tactics, practice them, and execute them on orders from your NCO or officer. Pretty simple huh?

I think the larger problem as a whole, and the reason that the standards ARE low is because most of your higher income areas, such as my school discourage their children from joining. My graduating class had about 450 in it, and 3 joined the military. Less than 1%. By comarison, I attended a graduation recently at a lower income school with a class of 300 and over 30 had joined. 10%. The reason for this is because the military is a GREAT stepping stone for somebody who is smart, BUT not smart enough for a scholarship (or cruised through HS) but still has a chance at college. Ditto for someone who's parents cannot afford it. You are always going to have idiots in whatever job you hold, whether it be the corporate mailboy, your boss, or Private 1st Class So and So.

I also look at other people in my age group (the MTV generation) and they(about 70%) are a bunch of self-serving, rude, degenerates. All they think about is smoking marijuana, getting drunk, and going to Cancun to chase tail in spring.

I'm glad there isn't a draft, because I would be TERRIFIED to sit in a foxhole next to one of them. Upper income kids' parents are the ones that curse recruiters when they call, and I find the practice deplorable. Where have we come to when a parent DISCOURAGES their child from serving their country?

My family's service record is as follows:

Grand Father- Navy

Great Uncle- Navy....KIA Atlantic Ocean WW2

Great Uncle- Army

Father- USAF retired. (Lt. Col.)

Mother- USAF (Captain) {no longer in}

Uncle- Army (Major) later FBI.

Big sister- USAF

Me- USMC

Little Brother- Future USMC

As you can see, it runs in the family. I will just say this to any future or current parents out there. If a recruiter comes to talk to your son or daughter, do not turn him away. Let your child decide as he/she can gain an absolute WEALTH of life experiences. Just be sure to steer them towards an MOS that is not combat arms, such as Air Traffic Control. They will thank you later.

P.S. For every 1 man in the field fighting, it takes 10 to support him. There are plenty of other jobs out there.

[Alex+R 0]

I'm glad there isn't a draft, because I would be TERRIFIED to sit in a foxhole next to one of them. Upper income kids' parents are the ones that curse recruiters when they call, and I find the practice deplorable. Where have we come to when a parent DISCOURAGES their child from serving their country?

I don't get this "serving my country" thing. What if I, and another x% of my countrymen, disagree with everything my government does to such an extent that the military just becomes serving my crooked, currupt government I am so terribly ashamed of? And becomes an act of disservice to my country itself?

[ual777 0]

I'm glad there isn't a draft, because I would be TERRIFIED to sit in a foxhole next to one of them. Upper income kids' parents are the ones that curse recruiters when they call, and I find the practice deplorable. Where have we come to when a parent DISCOURAGES their child from serving their country?

I don't get this "serving my country" thing. What if I, and another x% of my countrymen, disagree with everything my government does to such an extent that the military just becomes serving my crooked, currupt government I am so terribly ashamed of? And becomes an act of disservice to my country itself?

Thank you for proving my point. The military does not just serve the government. The military serves the PEOPLE.

Who was sent in after Hurricane Katrina? Oh the military.

Who is constantly searching for leads on terror attacks? Oh the military.

Who provides jobs to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of civilian contractors? Oh the military.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm glad there isn't a draft, because I would be TERRIFIED to sit in a foxhole next to one of them. Upper income kids' parents are the ones that curse recruiters when they call, and I find the practice deplorable. Where have we come to when a parent DISCOURAGES their child from serving their country?

I don't get this "serving my country" thing. What if I, and another x% of my countrymen, disagree with everything my government does to such an extent that the military just becomes serving my crooked, currupt government I am so terribly ashamed of? And becomes an act of disservice to my country itself?

Thank you for proving my point. The military does not just serve the government. The military serves the PEOPLE.

Who was sent in after Hurricane Katrina? Oh the military.

Who is constantly searching for leads on terror attacks? Oh the military.

Who provides jobs to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of civilian contractors? Oh the military.

Is it serving our people in Iraq? Rhetorical question...

Seriously, isn't it up to the individual to decide for themselves? Its (currently) their choice whether or not to join up, isn't it? In the current climate, I can see why a lot of people might question what it means to 'serve one's country'. Dulce Et Decorum Est and all that

Edited July 9, 2006 by Fishdude