Hate Groups Are Infiltrating the Military, Group Asserts

[Artegal 1]

I personally feel that everyone should do a tour in the military as that a little discipline in one’s life goes a long way.

I would aggree with this statement if you replaced "tour in the military" with tour of goverment service. This could be 2 years in the peace corps, America Corps, FEMA, Coast Guard, and even yes the US military.

They have a huge problem with turnover in jobs like border patrol in the goverment, why not make those jobs a service oriented entity like the military. This would allow gays and people that have religious reasons not to join the military to still serve. You also have vouchers of service for someone that joined a non-govermental organization, such as Red Cross, or if they worked for UN or other entity.

[Veiled Princess 1]

First of all, I find the first ones offensive. Second of all, the three sample questions are VERY easy, but the test gets harder towards the end.

The maximum score for the ASVAB is a 99. I scored a 97.

According to this the minimum score required for the Air Force is a 36.

The Army - 31

Marine Corps - 32

Navy - 35

Coast Guard - 40

It also notes exceptions that are made to lower that even more.

I admit openly that I don't know much (anything) about the army or this test.... that's less than half? On a standard test this would be a failing grade?

Also, I included a dislcaimer about the jokes

[ual777 0]

First of all, I find the first ones offensive. Second of all, the three sample questions are VERY easy, but the test gets harder towards the end.

The maximum score for the ASVAB is a 99. I scored a 97.

According to this the minimum score required for the Air Force is a 36.

The Army - 31

Marine Corps - 32

Navy - 35

Coast Guard - 40

It also notes exceptions that are made to lower that even more.

I admit openly that I don't know much (anything) about the army or this test.... that's less than half? On a standard test this would be a failing grade?

Also, I included a dislcaimer about the jokes

Yes, you CAN enter with those scores, but you are limited to infantry. If that MOS is not open you don't get to join at all. All the services require HS diplomas now too, with a FEW GED guys in.(like 2%).

Why are you always trying to bring down the military?

And disclaimer or not, they are offensive. Why post some ####### like that when the very people you are making fun of are DYING for the US?

Edited July 8, 2006 by ual777

[*Robert* 2]

Yes, you CAN enter with those scores, but you are limited to infantry. If that MOS is not open you don't get to join at all. All the services require HS diplomas now too, with a FEW GED guys in.(like 2%).

Why are you always trying to bring down the military?

And disclaimer or not, they are offensive. Why post some ####### like that when the very people you are making fun of are DYING for the US?

Hey Robert... does the "Line of Death" ring a bell? Navy 2 - Libya 0? That might explain where the bias is coming from.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First of all, I find the first ones offensive. Second of all, the three sample questions are VERY easy, but the test gets harder towards the end.

The maximum score for the ASVAB is a 99. I scored a 97.

According to this the minimum score required for the Air Force is a 36.

The Army - 31

Marine Corps - 32

Navy - 35

Coast Guard - 40

It also notes exceptions that are made to lower that even more.

I admit openly that I don't know much (anything) about the army or this test.... that's less than half? On a standard test this would be a failing grade?

Also, I included a dislcaimer about the jokes

Yes, you CAN enter with those scores, but you are limited to infantry. If that MOS is not open you don't get to join at all. All the services require HS diplomas now too, with a FEW GED guys in.(like 2%).

Why are you always trying to bring down the military?

And disclaimer or not, they are offensive. Why post some ####### like that when the very people you are making fun of are DYING for the US?

You bring up some good points but really the issue of this thread is that there appears to be a large number of recruits joining the military who are not only racist but have alterier motives for joining. That is a problem that you cannot ignore. I'm thankful the military has adopted a zero tolerance for racists, however, for whatever reasons, many are still getting in.

As someone mentioned this earlier in the thread - we cannot deny that this type of job is going to attract certain types of people who should not be in the military, just as pedaphiles seem to be drawn to jobs such as teachers, clergymen, and scout leaders. Those kinds of jobs have tests or screening processes that try to filter out the pedaphiles. The military needs some way of filtering out the racists in the same manner. And when I say racist, I'm not talking about your average bigot - I'm talking about the ones who join white supremists groups and believe in such things as race wars. Those people are scary.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Yes, you CAN enter with those scores, but you are limited to infantry. If that MOS is not open you don't get to join at all. All the services require HS diplomas now too, with a FEW GED guys in.(like 2%).

Why are you always trying to bring down the military?

And disclaimer or not, they are offensive. Why post some ####### like that when the very people you are making fun of are DYING for the US?

So the dumb ones are only given a big gun and taught to shoot? That's a little scary to me.

I'm not trying to bring down the military. I'm just pointing out that the scores to get in are low. You couldn't pass to the next grade in school with scores like that... you should not be allowed to enter something sooooooooooooooo important as the US military (any branch). The US military should be filled with ONLY the best and brightest since they can be, in effect, completely in control of other peoples lives.

I thought that was relevant to this topic BECAUSE from what I understood from the news reports, the accusation is that those scores have actually been lowered to let those rednecks/racists/nazis in. To attrack them.

So have they always been so low or have they recently been lowered? Are they waiving the requirement to have a HS diploma or GED for certain individuals? If so, why?

I do not support the US military in a lot of things but that doesn't mean I don't support the individual troops. I pray all of them remain safe and come home to be reunited with their families. I'm sure you were a fine soldier who would have never dreamed of doing any of the things some of your fellow soldiers have committed and I commend you for risking your life to keep us safe.

However, I don't agree with what the US military is being used for these days. I do not see that it is defending us so much as oppressing others. I do not think the US military should be occupying foreign lands or policing the world. It's not our business and the lives of many brave men and women are not worth it. Too many people die in war. I understand, if it's something that can't be avoided, the need to fight but I don't see that the military is doing that right now. I see it is occupying oil countries and fighting bush's war of greed and killing innocent people as well as being killed themselves in the process. I don't blame the individuals... I blame the "commander and chief". I pray that those individuals who are there because they have no choice in the matter OR because they honestly believe they are doing something good in the name of freedom will return home to live happy lives with the ones they're fighting for. The ones who are there just to kill and rape can stay there after the US pulls out for all I care.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Army cuts 1,000 for personality disorders By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer

Fri Jul 7, 6:44 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The Army discharged more than 1,000 soldiers last year for personality disorders, the reason it gave for this year's discharge of a private now accused of raping a young Iraqi woman and killing her and her family.

ADVERTISEMENT

That total represents about 1.2 percent of the 83,000 soldiers given early discharges during the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2005. That was a bit higher than the less than 1 percent discharged for those reasons during the 2001 fiscal year before the war in Iraq began.

Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, the Army's surgeon general, told reporters Friday that the disorder usually is not associated with combat trauma and may be a lifelong problem that is not always easy to identify in military screenings. He said soldiers exhibiting such traits would not be automatically discharged because many can continue to perform well.

Steven D. Green, who pleaded not guilty through his public defenders Thursday, was discharged because of an "anti-social personality disorder" according to military officials and documents. That condition is defined as chronic behavior that manipulates, exploits or violates the rights of others, such as someone who repeatedly lies, fights or breaks the law.

According to a federal affidavit, Green, 21, and other soldiers targeted a young Iraqi woman after spotting her at a traffic checkpoint near Mahmoudiya. They later went to her house, raped and killed her and shot members of her family, the affidavit said.

Green is being tried in federal rather than military court because he no longer is in the Army

Kiley told Pentagon reporters that personality disorders — which are not forms of mental illness — do no necessarily exclude people from serving in the armed forces. In fact, he said that up to 4 percent to 5 percent of the soldiers have taken sleep medications or antidepressant drugs at one time or another during their combat service.

Altogether, there were nearly 493,000 people in the Army during the 2005 fiscal year, compared with about 481,000 in 2001. The Army discharged 805 soldiers for personality disorders in 2001, 734 in 2002, 980 in 2003, 988 in 2004 and 1,038 in 2005.

Mental disorders represented between less than 1 percent to 1.4 percent of the total early discharges for those years. The total number of early discharges ranged from about 69,000 to more than 87,000. Soldiers can receive early discharges for a number of reasons, but most often they are for physical fitness issues.

Kiley said the Army is allocating more resources that ever to combat stress and provide mental health counseling for soldiers on the battlefield.

Currently, he said, there are about 200 mental health and behavioral health personnel in Iraq and 25 in Afghanistan. Many of them are assigned to different regions of the country and travel in small teams to the forward operating bases to meet with soldiers.

The Army, he said, is trying to find ways to encourage soldiers to use the mental health services and overcome the perception among the military that seeking mental health counseling is a sign of weakness.

"There is something very demanding and tough about being in combat," said Kiley. "And anything that would be perceived as being weak and not ready and tough carries with it some stigma."

As a result, he said, the Army is trying to reach out regularly to soldiers while they are in combat, and officials are encouraging entire units to go through mental health screenings so that soldiers will feel more comfortable doing it if they see their commanders and unit leaders participating.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060707/ap_on_...ality_disorders

[Veiled Princess 1]

Hey Robert... does the "Line of Death" ring a bell? Navy 2 - Libya 0? That might explain where the bias is coming from.

I am not Libyan, my husband is. I have never BEEN to Libya. Gaddafi is a nutjob. I'm sure many Libyans agree.

Army cuts 1,000 for personality disorders By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer

Fri Jul 7, 6:44 PM ET

Kiley told Pentagon reporters that personality disorders — which are not forms of mental illness — do no necessarily exclude people from serving in the armed forces. In fact, he said that up to 4 percent to 5 percent of the soldiers have taken sleep medications or antidepressant drugs at one time or another during their combat service.

The Army, he said, is trying to find ways to encourage soldiers to use the mental health services and overcome the perception among the military that seeking mental health counseling is a sign of weakness.

"There is something very demanding and tough about being in combat," said Kiley. "And anything that would be perceived as being weak and not ready and tough carries with it some stigma."

As a result, he said, the Army is trying to reach out regularly to soldiers while they are in combat, and officials are encouraging entire units to go through mental health screenings so that soldiers will feel more comfortable doing it if they see their commanders and unit leaders participating.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060707/ap_on_...ality_disorders

Thank God they acknowladge it and are combating it from within! ONE for the Army!

The bolded section is GREAT advice!

I hope the fact that they state the disorder he was discharged for is NOT considered a mental illness means he is elligible for the death penatly!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Hey Robert... does the "Line of Death" ring a bell? Navy 2 - Libya 0? That might explain where the bias is coming from.

I am not Libyan, my husband is. I have never BEEN to Libya. Gaddafi is a nutjob. I'm sure many Libyans agree.

Indeed, many Libyans do agree with that assessment.

However, Gaddafi could not be considered "completely crazy" in everything. He has shrewdly negotiated a way to get off the official U.S. "enemies" list (he paid the money demanded for Lockerbie) so most Libyans now have actual hope for a more positive outlook for their country, their economy, and their futures.

Wishing all the best to the Libyan people !

-MK

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hey Robert... does the "Line of Death" ring a bell? Navy 2 - Libya 0? That might explain where the bias is coming from.

I am not Libyan, my husband is. I have never BEEN to Libya. Gaddafi is a nutjob. I'm sure many Libyans agree.

Apparently we like Gaddafi now he has become more compliant and rejected terrorism. We would have liked Saddam Hussein today too if he hadn't invaded Kuwait and jeopardised the US' relationship with Saudi Arabia.

What's funny is that we still think we went into Iraq (both times) to 'liberate' oppressed peoples. The reality is that having spent years funding Saddam, not doing anything would have put the US in a rather difficult ethical dilemma - specifically with regards to the arab world.

I mean, if you sell the guy weapons and publicly provide him with financial and political support and then he goes and invades another country, doing nothing provides the appearance of legitimacy. And we think we have a problem with terrorism now....

Edited July 8, 2006 by Fishdude

[Veiled Princess 1]

I mean, if you sell the guy weapons and publicly provide him with financial and political support and then he goes and invades another country, doing nothing provides the appearance of legitimacy. And we think we have a problem with terrorism now....

You make a very valid point.

Indeed, many Libyans do agree with that assessment.

However, Gaddafi could not be considered "completely crazy" in everything. He has shrewdly negotiated a way to get off the official U.S. "enemies" list (he paid the money demanded for Lockerbie) so most Libyans now have actual hope for a more positive outlook for their country, their economy, and their futures.

Wishing all the best to the Libyan people !

-MK

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The first Gulf war was inevitable - but as usual we got ourselves into the mess to begin with. Saddam would never have invaded Kuwait if he didn't think he had the blessing and support of the US (he didn't of course).

The only reason the US supported Saddam was to act as a buffer against Iran (a country that they had already tried and failed to 'regime change' to secure dirt cheap access to Iran's oil) - we are largely responsible for 1979 revolution and the subsequent political direction that country has taken.

That's why I find it amazing that people seem so surprised that there is so much anti-US resentment in that region of the world. You can't condone terrorism, but you can certainly understand the inital resentment and constant foreign interference will push a country to be more insular and nationalistic.

Personally I think its disgusting that Gadaffi got off with a fine, while essentially retaining his dictatorship. Lockerbie was an atrocity, and unlike Iraq (and 9/11) there is rather more proof that the Libyan authorities were complicit in it.

Edited July 8, 2006 by Fishdude

[yabasta 0]

as i'm glad you finally spelled correctly

What did i spell incorrectly?

there you go with the small minded again. jeesh. do you ever quit?

nor did i state that someone repairing computers would not have to fire a weapon. now since you seem to have no clue whatsoever, i'll give you a class on it. no matter what skill you sign up for in the army, you will shoot the m-16a2 rifle in basic training.

i've heard the marines fire their individual rifles with more frequency than anyone, and the air force - one might fire their individual rifle only in basic training with no further requirement to do so again for 20 years.

now back to the army. after basic, other training, etc it was required that each soldier fire and qualify with their individual rifle at least once a year. medical personnel and chaplains had exemptions to this requirement.

so yes, you can wind up with someone who is a heavy equipment repairman who's main purpose in the military is to fix heavy equipement like bulldozers and so on. and they still have to fire their rifle and qualify with it at least once a year. does that make them a trained killer? not hardly.

Well with that big statement you failed to address my point totally. Avoiding what i say and calling it a rebuttal doesn`t make it so. It is not important how the military recruitment works. The point i made is that the job is seen by many as a job involving guns and other such manly violent things. You said yourself that a man with no interest in the army must be a girl. Of course there will be people who sign up to join the army for the wrong reasons, if people signed up for "right" reasons then they would all have refused to toture or refused to fight in a war of aggression.

[slim 1,525]

Since this is my first post on this topic.... I'll stay ON TOPIC (for now.)

The military has significantly lowered their standards for admittance in the last few years, not just in the Army, but across the board, and the Army is specifically targetting low-income and low-intelligence personnel to join due to recent shortages.

It is really hard to recruit people to do a job that is extremely dangerous and has lousy pay. That's why the new commercials are aimed at "parents" and "buddies" of perspective recruits. (In other words... those potential recruits that would be more swayed by peer and family pressure to join the military than their own personal oppinions.)

Gangbangers, racists, and even "terrorists" are now going to be allowed to join the military more easily because the lower standards. It should be no surprise that there are going to be more instances of "hate" rearing it's ugly head in our armed forces, even abroad.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Add to that people who join simply because they feel they have nothing else.... e.g. kids who want independence from family (and feel that joining up is the only way), those who feel (for whatever reason) that they don't have any other career prospects.

Of course, a lot of people get married for much the same reason, and stay in loveless, unsatisfying marriages simply because they can't imagine life any other way.

As I see it, there's a very big difference between the working insitution of the armed forces, and the way it is portrayed and marketed in recruitment ads etc.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of the kneejerk reaction resulting from criticisms of the military results from an inability to separate the day to day reality of being a member of the armed forces from an almost mythic ideal of what it means to be a soldier.

I'm also willing to bet that your average grunt on latrine digging duty probably isn't thinking too much about how great it is to serve his country, but how much of an ####### his CO is.

Edited July 8, 2006 by Fishdude