Income and Loss

[Hoang_Phuong 2]

If you owned your business and on your tax paperwork, you showed loss. Will that count against you? will that give us a RFE or Red Flag?

I only had my business for half the year last year and I worked right after that. The total income is well over $20K which is above the poverty level?

Also, lets say, I made $8k working for a business, and I have a $20K car.. How do I calculate the car as an asset?

Thanks!

Edited July 10, 2009 by tomi

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you owned your business and on your tax paperwork, you showed loss. Will that count against you? will that give us a RFE or Red Flag?

I only had my business for half the year last year and I worked right after that. The total income is well over $20K which is above the poverty level?

Also, lets say, I made $8k working for a business, and I have a $20K car.. How do I calculate the car as an asset?

Thanks!

Yes it will count against you. YOUR income is $8K. They are not concerned with business income. They go by YOUR total income, LINE 22 on the 1040 and nothing else. It will not cause an "RFE" fr the petition and it is not a "red flag". It is a disqualifier. You will not receive a visa if you do not show sufficient income at the visa interview.

Assets must be something which can be liquidated within 12 months without harm to the family. Unless you have several cars they will not consider the value of one car as to sell it would require replacing it. For an automobile they use the wholesales value minus any amount owed.

At most consulates CURRENT income is more important than last year's income, but for self employed people it can be difficult to prove current income. Give a bank letter showing deposits in the last 12 months. Calculate your answer for "current income" by using YTD income, divide by the months in the calculation and mutiply by 12.

Line up a co-sponsor

[payxibka 10,045]

moving thread to:

US Embassy and Consulate Discussion

You are almost there and now you have to deal with the embassy. This is the place to post your experiences or questions related to this last step before moving to the US. Topics relating to I-134's, packets sent from consulate and medical & police certificates should be posted here.

[rebeccajo 14]

If you owned your business and on your tax paperwork, you showed loss. Will that count against you? will that give us a RFE or Red Flag?

I only had my business for half the year last year and I worked right after that. The total income is well over $20K which is above the poverty level?

Also, lets say, I made $8k working for a business, and I have a $20K car.. How do I calculate the car as an asset?

Thanks!

Yes it will count against you. YOUR income is $8K. They are not concerned with business income. They go by YOUR total income, LINE 22 on the 1040 and nothing else. It will not cause an "RFE" fr the petition and it is not a "red flag". It is a disqualifier. You will not receive a visa if you do not show sufficient income at the visa interview.

Assets must be something which can be liquidated within 12 months without harm to the family. Unless you have several cars they will not consider the value of one car as to sell it would require replacing it. For an automobile they use the wholesales value minus any amount owed.

At most consulates CURRENT income is more important than last year's income, but for self employed people it can be difficult to prove current income. Give a bank letter showing deposits in the last 12 months. Calculate your answer for "current income" by using YTD income, divide by the months in the calculation and mutiply by 12.

Line up a co-sponsor

Gary -

It sounds to me like she is saying she had a small business plus worked and that her tax return reflects a total income of $20K, which is over the poverly limit.

If that is the case she is OK and doesn't need to worry about asset qualification.

Slow down in the reading?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you owned your business and on your tax paperwork, you showed loss. Will that count against you? will that give us a RFE or Red Flag?

I only had my business for half the year last year and I worked right after that. The total income is well over $20K which is above the poverty level?

Also, lets say, I made $8k working for a business, and I have a $20K car.. How do I calculate the car as an asset?

Thanks!

Yes it will count against you. YOUR income is $8K. They are not concerned with business income. They go by YOUR total income, LINE 22 on the 1040 and nothing else. It will not cause an "RFE" fr the petition and it is not a "red flag". It is a disqualifier. You will not receive a visa if you do not show sufficient income at the visa interview.

Assets must be something which can be liquidated within 12 months without harm to the family. Unless you have several cars they will not consider the value of one car as to sell it would require replacing it. For an automobile they use the wholesales value minus any amount owed.

At most consulates CURRENT income is more important than last year's income, but for self employed people it can be difficult to prove current income. Give a bank letter showing deposits in the last 12 months. Calculate your answer for "current income" by using YTD income, divide by the months in the calculation and mutiply by 12.

Line up a co-sponsor

Gary -

It sounds to me like she is saying she had a small business plus worked and that her tax return reflects a total income of $20K, which is over the poverly limit.

If that is the case she is OK and doesn't need to worry about asset qualification.

Slow down in the reading?

True enough

As I stated, they go by line 22 of the IRS 1040 form. If that amount is more than 20K she is fine. Doesn't matter the source of income (as long as it is a leagl source of income) if the TOTAL income is enough, you do not need to list assets

[thepizzadude 26]

If you owned your business and on your tax paperwork, you showed loss. Will that count against you? will that give us a RFE or Red Flag?

It depends if you are saying your business showed a total loss or just lost some money for that time period.

I only had my business for half the year last year and I worked right after that. The total income is well over $20K which is above the poverty level?

When you say the "total income" is well over $20K. Do you mean the sales are well over $20K before you take out expenses etc...OR after your losses the leftover money is well over $20K?

Also, lets say, I made $8k working for a business, and I have a $20K car.. How do I calculate the car as an asset?

Unless you have 2 cars it won't count. The $8K will count if you have a 1099 or w-2.

Like Gary said Line 22 on you 1040 federal tax form is the # you need to be concerned with.

Good Luck

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

[Anh map 2,098]

OP needs to give some more detailed info regarding the combined wage income and self employed income.

If your wages less any loss shown on the tax return exceeds the income requirement then you ought to be ok. Looking at my personal 2008 Form 1040 tax return with both wage and self employment income it would be line 22.

From the form I-864 instructions: For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Anh map

[thepizzadude 26]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

An allowable loss reduces your taxable income, TO INCREASE your income on line 22 you have to NOT take these losses to qualify ... where is the confusion?

Yes, money spent on the business COULD not be claimed in order to generate MORE taxable income. Maybe you are thinking backwards.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

An allowable loss reduces your taxable income, TO INCREASE your income on line 22 you have to NOT take these losses to qualify ... where is the confusion?

Yes, money spent on the business COULD not be claimed in order to generate MORE taxable income. Maybe you are thinking backwards.

I don't think I'm thinking backwards. I think I'm understanding you completely. I also have a home based business, in addition to a full time job. My total revenues from the business last year were over $30,000, but I took a net loss of around $6000. This reduced MY taxable income by $6000. I don't see this as being unfair, because in the end I spent $6000 more than I made. I think it's only fair that neither the $30,000 in revenues, nor the $6000 that came out of my own pocket, should be considered as if they were income that was actually available to me to support my fiancee/spouse.

The IRS considers what was left after my loss to be my total income, and it seems proper to me that the consulate and USCIS should do the same.

[thepizzadude 26]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

An allowable loss reduces your taxable income, TO INCREASE your income on line 22 you have to NOT take these losses to qualify ... where is the confusion?

Yes, money spent on the business COULD not be claimed in order to generate MORE taxable income. Maybe you are thinking backwards.

I don't think I'm thinking backwards. I think I'm understanding you completely. I also have a home based business, in addition to a full time job. My total revenues from the business last year were over $30,000, but I took a net loss of around $6000. This reduced MY taxable income by $6000. I don't see this as being unfair, because in the end I spent $6000 more than I made. I think it's only fair that neither the $30,000 in revenues, nor the $6000 that came out of my own pocket, should be considered as if they were income that was actually available to me to support my fiancee/spouse.

The IRS considers what was left after my loss to be my total income, and it seems proper to me that the consulate and USCIS should do the same.

OK maybe you need to look at it if YOU are at the minimum level of income to qualify like this...

I have 30000 in revenues, I have 14000 I can write off giving me 16000 to be taxed BUT I need to show 21800 to qualify therefore as a business owner I lose out on 5800 of my allowable write off....

[payxibka 10,045]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

An allowable loss reduces your taxable income, TO INCREASE your income on line 22 you have to NOT take these losses to qualify ... where is the confusion?

Yes, money spent on the business COULD not be claimed in order to generate MORE taxable income. Maybe you are thinking backwards.

I don't think I'm thinking backwards. I think I'm understanding you completely. I also have a home based business, in addition to a full time job. My total revenues from the business last year were over $30,000, but I took a net loss of around $6000. This reduced MY taxable income by $6000. I don't see this as being unfair, because in the end I spent $6000 more than I made. I think it's only fair that neither the $30,000 in revenues, nor the $6000 that came out of my own pocket, should be considered as if they were income that was actually available to me to support my fiancee/spouse.

The IRS considers what was left after my loss to be my total income, and it seems proper to me that the consulate and USCIS should do the same.

OK maybe you need to look at it if YOU are at the minimum level of income to qualify like this...

I have 30000 in revenues, I have 14000 I can write off giving me 16000 to be taxed BUT I need to show 21800 to qualify therefore as a business owner I lose out on 5800 of my allowable write off....

No, you simply need MORE revenue

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

OK maybe you need to look at it if YOU are at the minimum level of income to qualify like this...

I have 30000 in revenues, I have 14000 I can write off giving me 16000 to be taxed BUT I need to show 21800 to qualify therefore as a business owner I lose out on 5800 of my allowable write off....

Ok, sounds like you didn't have a loss after all. You just didn't have enough of a profit to clear the threshold.

The revenues from my business were about $30,000, but I SPENT about $36,000, leaving me with a $6000 loss for the year. That $6000 came out of my pocket, and reduced the line 22 total income by $6000. This was the first year for my business, so the loss was expected. The income from my full time job more than makes up for the loss, so I'm still above the 125% threshold by a very comfortable margin.

[thepizzadude 26]

BTW I have my own business and dealt with this issue quite extensively last year moving money from one place to other to qualify without giving up ALL my allowable write offs. This process is very unfair to the business owner, you must give up GENUINE allowable expenses sometimes to qualify, and that in my opinion is unfair.

I'm confused by this. How is this unfair to business owners? What you have left on line 22 is more or less the same as what an employee would have left here - total personal income before adjustments, taxes, etc. Not deducting business expenses would make this number higher, but the fact is that you still spent that money on your business - it wasn't available for you to live on, and it won't be available for you to support your spouse.

An allowable loss reduces your taxable income, TO INCREASE your income on line 22 you have to NOT take these losses to qualify ... where is the confusion?

Yes, money spent on the business COULD not be claimed in order to generate MORE taxable income. Maybe you are thinking backwards.

I don't think I'm thinking backwards. I think I'm understanding you completely. I also have a home based business, in addition to a full time job. My total revenues from the business last year were over $30,000, but I took a net loss of around $6000. This reduced MY taxable income by $6000. I don't see this as being unfair, because in the end I spent $6000 more than I made. I think it's only fair that neither the $30,000 in revenues, nor the $6000 that came out of my own pocket, should be considered as if they were income that was actually available to me to support my fiancee/spouse.

The IRS considers what was left after my loss to be my total income, and it seems proper to me that the consulate and USCIS should do the same.

OK maybe you need to look at it if YOU are at the minimum level of income to qualify like this...

I have 30000 in revenues, I have 14000 I can write off giving me 16000 to be taxed BUT I need to show 21800 to qualify therefore as a business owner I lose out on 5800 of my allowable write off....

No, you simply need MORE revenue

LOL

[thepizzadude 26]

OK maybe you need to look at it if YOU are at the minimum level of income to qualify like this...

I have 30000 in revenues, I have 14000 I can write off giving me 16000 to be taxed BUT I need to show 21800 to qualify therefore as a business owner I lose out on 5800 of my allowable write off....

Ok, sounds like you didn't have a loss after all. You just didn't have enough of a profit to clear the threshold.

The revenues from my business were about $30,000, but I SPENT about $36,000, leaving me with a $6000 loss for the year. That $6000 came out of my pocket, and reduced the line 22 total income by $6000. This was the first year for my business, so the loss was expected. The income from my full time job more than makes up for the loss, so I'm still above the 125% threshold by a very comfortable margin.

A. I didn't say this was me.

B. This has nothing to do with 2nd jobs to cover the amount needed to qualify.

C. This could happen equally to a business having 250k in revenue with payroll, insurance, cost of goods blah blah blah. Carry Over losses from previous years, and depreciation. THE FACT is you could have to NOT take allowable losses just to qualify and IT IS NOT FAIR period. I only used your simplistic AMWAY business model for simplicity. I'm sorry but FACTS are FACTS.