Safe amount of time

[crazyinEgypt 0]

Just be careful!

[HannahP 119]

Mostly just interesting because women who get into bad relationships tend to, statistically anyway, get into bad relationships afterwards.

Very true. I dont think its just women though...although probably more often than men.

@ HannahP...most of the time in those statistics, they need to see it before anyone can assist. People need to ask for help to stop things (addictions, bad relationships, etc.) It's the way life is...we can see things clearly when we are outside a situation.

Oh no, I agree completely with both of you. Simply stating a fact which might help to explain the behavior of some people (not necc. the OP even, just that frustrating question of /why/.) My sister is in a similar position, so yeah.

[sandinista! 1,816]

MMMMMMMMM

Third, My marriage has been over for over a year and a half. The most intimate that my lovely husband is with me is when he asks where the chicken is in the freezer........or if we have tomatoes.

he's still there to ask you about chicken and tomatoes? are you still going to have a man in your house that you are not married to asking about chicken and tomatoes after you marry this guy in egypt? does the guy in egypt know there's still a jordanian yr no longer married to staying in your house eating chicken and tomatoes?

*another thing-does anyone have any good recipes for chicken and tomatoes?

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Salaam Sister Tammy,

Just information, a little bit of opinion, totally based on my own experience (having been married to one Palestinian and 3 Egyptians over 30 years), which may or may not be totally different from yours or anyone else's...

1) We don't know anyone from Egypt who has been able to get a Temp EAD at JFK. My husband has asked everyone he knows and none of them got it. Not on K-1 or K-3.

2) Even if someone does get it, in this economy it doesn't mean he will find a job that he believes is suitable during the 90 days.

3) That being the case he would need to be prepared to spend 6-9 months without earning any income. If you wait until the 90th day to get married, then file the AOS papers, the total time without permission to work legally could easily be that or more. (see my timeline as an example)

4) Egyptians do not accept the notion that they cannot work here simply because they don't have papers. ALL their friends come here and work without them.. so they plan to as well. They don't seem to mind taking the risk of destroying their immigration proceedings, if they can make $$. Money, making even more money, the perception of success, and showing the people "back home" that they improved their lives by immigrating to the West are the TOP PRIORITIES.

5) Very few men immigrating from Egypt have the means to support themselves and their new families with $$ they bring from Egypt. And if they don't plan to support themselves (and also generously contribute to the expenses of the household) in my experience this will likely be a LONG TERM attitude... and is considered quite shameful by Egyptian standards (and goes against how they were raised). And does not bode well...

6) Even if the USC wife doesn't demand or expect to be supported, if the Egyptian husband does not support her over such an extended period of time, he will feel diminished as a husband and a man. This puts a huge strain on the relationship and adds to the other frustrations the couple faces regarding finances, priorities, etc.

And if he doesn't feel bad, well.... what can I say.... there's likely something abnormal going on or something strange about his upbringing... or both...

7) The great majority of Egyptians have little to no concept of step-families, and less about step-parenting. Traditionally (in Egypt) when a woman remarries her children either go to live with their father, or their grandparents. Step fathers in Egypt rarely interact one on one with their step-children. The concept of "Evil Step-parents" is the conventional wisdom. Even step-mother's intentions towards their step-children are considered highly suspicious.

Generally Egyptians love children - their own, and the children of their blood relations and Egyptian friends are of great importance, but this does not always transfer to the children of another man. And in my experience over time, the novelty wears off and because there is no blood-relationship, so does their patience with children who do not behave as they EXPECT children (based on Egyptian standards) to behave. This is particularly true of men who have never raised their own children. (And parenting norms are TOTALLY different in Egypt...)

8) Whoever wrote that everything about choices/relationships change when children are involved spoke the truth. I wholeheartedly wish I had not remarried (my Egyptian ex-husband) after my first marriage (to a Palestinian).

My son was 3 months old when husband #1's drug use and alcoholism finally reached a point I could no longer ignore it or handle it. I waited 9 years to remarry husband #2, and I wish I had waited 9 or 10, or 11 more. My son is scarred for life from the emotional abuse he received, followed by the abandonment of the 2nd husband (8 years later) when he couldn't Adjust Status in the USA and finally gave up and left to live in Canada following a notice of a deportation order.

It never occured to me that if he divorced me he would also divorce my son, who called him "Baba" for 8 years. My son deserved a more stable and less dramatic/chaotic life. I thought he needed a male role model, an example of moral living, a devout/pious Muslim head of the family... (to contrast with how his father was living). I was wrong. He needed security, stability, tranquility, (and the full undivided attention of his mother). I wish this for your children too.

Fi'aman'illah

[amysaid 9]

KPH - it looks like I'm going to be heading up to Portland for jumma this Friday, inshaAllah, would you be interested in meeting up for some coffee/tea or something? If so, send me a message...

[Nothing1234 2]

MMMMMMMMM

Third, My marriage has been over for over a year and a half. The most intimate that my lovely husband is with me is when he asks where the chicken is in the freezer........or if we have tomatoes.

he's still there to ask you about chicken and tomatoes? are you still going to have a man in your house that you are not married to asking about chicken and tomatoes after you marry this guy in egypt? does the guy in egypt know there's still a jordanian yr no longer married to staying in your house eating chicken and tomatoes?

*another thing-does anyone have any good recipes for chicken and tomatoes?

Nerd! I do, I do! Actually, I think I posted it in the "kitchen". I will have to look tomorrow for you!

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Salaam Sister Tammy,

Just information, a little bit of opinion, totally based on my own experience (having been married to one Palestinian and 3 Egyptians over 30 years), which may or may not be totally different from yours or anyone else's...

1) We don't know anyone from Egypt who has been able to get a Temp EAD at JFK. My husband has asked everyone he knows and none of them got it. Not on K-1 or K-3.

2) Even if someone does get it, in this economy it doesn't mean he will find a job that he believes is suitable during the 90 days.

3) That being the case he would need to be prepared to spend 6-9 months without earning any income. If you wait until the 90th day to get married, then file the AOS papers, the total time without permission to work legally could easily be that or more. (see my timeline as an example)

4) Egyptians do not accept the notion that they cannot work here simply because they don't have papers. ALL their friends come here and work without them.. so they plan to as well. They don't seem to mind taking the risk of destroying their immigration proceedings, if they can make $$. Money, making even more money, the perception of success, and showing the people "back home" that they improved their lives by immigrating to the West are the TOP PRIORITIES.

5) Very few men immigrating from Egypt have the means to support themselves and their new families with $$ they bring from Egypt. And if they don't plan to support themselves (and also generously contribute to the expenses of the household) in my experience this will likely be a LONG TERM attitude... and is considered quite shameful by Egyptian standards (and goes against how they were raised). And does not bode well...

6) Even if the USC wife doesn't demand or expect to be supported, if the Egyptian husband does not support her over such an extended period of time, he will feel diminished as a husband and a man. This puts a huge strain on the relationship and adds to the other frustrations the couple faces regarding finances, priorities, etc.

And if he doesn't feel bad, well.... what can I say.... there's likely something abnormal going on or something strange about his upbringing... or both...

7) The great majority of Egyptians have little to no concept of step-families, and less about step-parenting. Traditionally (in Egypt) when a woman remarries her children either go to live with their father, or their grandparents. Step fathers in Egypt rarely interact one on one with their step-children. The concept of "Evil Step-parents" is the conventional wisdom. Even step-mother's intentions towards their step-children are considered highly suspicious.

Generally Egyptians love children - their own, and the children of their blood relations and Egyptian friends are of great importance, but this does not always transfer to the children of another man. And in my experience over time, the novelty wears off and because there is no blood-relationship, so does their patience with children who do not behave as they EXPECT children (based on Egyptian standards) to behave. This is particularly true of men who have never raised their own children. (And parenting norms are TOTALLY different in Egypt...)

8) Whoever wrote that everything about choices/relationships change when children are involved spoke the truth. I wholeheartedly wish I had not remarried (my Egyptian ex-husband) after my first marriage (to a Palestinian).

My son was 3 months old when husband #1's drug use and alcoholism finally reached a point I could no longer ignore it or handle it. I waited 9 years to remarry husband #2, and I wish I had waited 9 or 10, or 11 more. My son is scarred for life from the emotional abuse he received, followed by the abandonment of the 2nd husband (8 years later) when he couldn't Adjust Status in the USA and finally gave up and left to live in Canada following a notice of a deportation order.

It never occured to me that if he divorced me he would also divorce my son, who called him "Baba" for 8 years. My son deserved a more stable and less dramatic/chaotic life. I thought he needed a male role model, an example of moral living, a devout/pious Muslim head of the family... (to contrast with how his father was living). I was wrong. He needed security, stability, tranquility, (and the full undivided attention of his mother). I wish this for your children too.

Fi'aman'illah

Perfectly said!

[SaadBell 0]

information, a little bit of opinion, totally based on my own experience (having been married to one Palestinian and 3 Egyptians over 30 years), which may or may not be totally different from yours or anyone else's.

..

If they all are like that who would want to marry them. Sounds like a bunch of losers to me, thank goodness my husband doesn't fit that mold. I think it depends on education, and if they have ever left their country. I could say the same of my own men in America, you could say most American men are spoiled bratts, don't marry their women, since they can sleep with them without marriage, and as far as fathers, I know myself my father was a total loser. My German American father gave up all us girls for adoption and never looked back. My Latino Grandfather was hot tempered, but that doesn't mean all Latino's are hot tempered, I grew up thinking that, and that white men were calm and sweet. Boy that was a big lie, but in the Latino world that is what I always heard, than I married a white male and he was not sweet or calm, but a blazing alcoholic who had a hot temper. But not all American men thank goodness are like that. I understand where you get you information from experience, and as women we all must be careful.

[SuperDuper! 230]

information, a little bit of opinion, totally based on my own experience (having been married to one Palestinian and 3 Egyptians over 30 years), which may or may not be totally different from yours or anyone else's.

..

If they all are like that who would want to marry them. Sounds like a bunch of losers to me, thank goodness my husband doesn't fit that mold. I think it depends on education, and if they have ever left their country. I could say the same of my own men in America, you could say most American men are spoiled bratts, don't marry their women, since they can sleep with them without marriage, and as far as fathers, I know myself my father was a total loser. My German American father gave up all us girls for adoption and never looked back. My Latino Grandfather was hot tempered, but that doesn't mean all Latino's are hot tempered, I grew up thinking that, and that white men were calm and sweet. Boy that was a big lie, but in the Latino world that is what I always heard, than I married a white male and he was not sweet or calm, but a blazing alcoholic who had a hot temper. But not all American men thank goodness are like that. I understand where you get you information from experience, and as women we all must be careful.

Watch it with the absolute statements. SOmeone might mistake you for "Captain Obvious"

Edited July 15, 2009 by itzallgood

[doodlebugg 10]

7) The great majority of Egyptians have little to no concept of step-families, and less about step-parenting. Traditionally (in Egypt) when a woman remarries her children either go to live with their father, or their grandparents. Step fathers in Egypt rarely interact one on one with their step-children. The concept of "Evil Step-parents" is the conventional wisdom. Even step-mother's intentions towards their step-children are considered highly suspicious.

Generally Egyptians love children - their own, and the children of their blood relations and Egyptian friends are of great importance, but this does not always transfer to the children of another man. And in my experience over time, the novelty wears off and because there is no blood-relationship, so does their patience with children who do not behave as they EXPECT children (based on Egyptian standards) to behave. This is particularly true of men who have never raised their own children. (And parenting norms are TOTALLY different in Egypt...)

That is so negative and could be said for American men too. I mean come on, obviously any man or woman would have a stronger bond with their own children but that's not to say that a loving bond cannot be formed with stepchildren. My husband loves my two daughters as though they were his own. They respect him because he's earned it and he loves them unconditionally. Sure he gets upset at certain things but he would jump in front of a bus for them in a ny minute.

What I *would* say about a man from Egypt in regards to step children, especially teenage girls, is that it is difficult for them to watch from the sidelines without criticizing how they interact with boys. My husband freaks out about my 13 yr old going off with her group which is made up of about 5 or 6 girls and probably 2 to 3 boys, depending on the day. He doesn't outwardly say anything other than to ask the obvious, "she will go to get ice cream with boys???". He keeps it inside because he knows it is a culture difference but I see that it kills him softly because he is so afraid for her. THAT is the only difference I can see as far as being Egyptian. I suppose some American men would feel the same but I'd have to strain to visualize an American stepfather being that protective of a stepdaughter's honor.

[Henia 11]

Tammy, forgive me for going there, but I have rethought what I posted originally - are you seriously wanting to go through all of this allover again? Is there honestly someone who is so fantastic that you are ready to go down this soul-baring, private life invading, USCIS hell of a nightmare for a second round? You're a lovely woman who deserves some peace and happiness - even if it is being single peace and happiness. Take some time for yourself and just be TSK.

And if you're asking if it is a safe amount of time - remember this, if you have to ask, then no. It is not.

I adore you, you're a great lady who deserves much more than the load of crapola you were married to. But give it time and truly test the waters with this man...I'd want to make sure that he was worthy of your love, your emotions and your money - cuz this is an investment to say the least.

God bless you.

I was thinking the same thing. Sorry if it comes out insensitive but I know I learned alot from my ex ... mostly to avoid those tyes of people and any situation close to that marriage. Enchallah your new guy is worth it.

[~Jackie~ 30]

I learned alot from my ex too.

I learned to not take even ONE minute for granted.

It was 2 years ago today he left. thank god and nissan he's gone.

jJ

Edited July 15, 2009 by just_Jackie

[Aymsgirl 0]

7) The great majority of Egyptians have little to no concept of step-families, and less about step-parenting. Traditionally (in Egypt) when a woman remarries her children either go to live with their father, or their grandparents. Step fathers in Egypt rarely interact one on one with their step-children. The concept of "Evil Step-parents" is the conventional wisdom. Even step-mother's intentions towards their step-children are considered highly suspicious.

Generally Egyptians love children - their own, and the children of their blood relations and Egyptian friends are of great importance, but this does not always transfer to the children of another man. And in my experience over time, the novelty wears off and because there is no blood-relationship, so does their patience with children who do not behave as they EXPECT children (based on Egyptian standards) to behave. This is particularly true of men who have never raised their own children. (And parenting norms are TOTALLY different in Egypt...)

That is so negative and could be said for American men too. I mean come on, obviously any man or woman would have a stronger bond with their own children but that's not to say that a loving bond cannot be formed with stepchildren. My husband loves my two daughters as though they were his own. They respect him because he's earned it and he loves them unconditionally. Sure he gets upset at certain things but he would jump in front of a bus for them in a ny minute.

What I *would* say about a man from Egypt in regards to step children, especially teenage girls, is that it is difficult for them to watch from the sidelines without criticizing how they interact with boys. My husband freaks out about my 13 yr old going off with her group which is made up of about 5 or 6 girls and probably 2 to 3 boys, depending on the day. He doesn't outwardly say anything other than to ask the obvious, "she will go to get ice cream with boys???". He keeps it inside because he knows it is a culture difference but I see that it kills him softly because he is so afraid for her. THAT is the only difference I can see as far as being Egyptian. I suppose some American men would feel the same but I'd have to strain to visualize an American stepfather being that protective of a stepdaughter's honor.

I understand what KH is saying with regards to their culture and step children. It is not the norm for step children to always be accepted as their own in their country. I think each man is different. Also, I understand where she is coming from with the discipline. From what I have learned discipline can be very harsh there and a lot of parents do not put up with anything ill mannered and some things in our eyes aren't even so. Things haven't always been peaches and cream in our home. It took time for adjustments to be made for my husband and my kids but not all men are like this. We have had several disagreements on how my children should behave and all in all they are pretty good kids. So, I also agree with you Bridget too, American men can be the same way. I see both sides of the story here. Things are getting so much better with the adjustment of step father and step kids and honestly he started out being their friend first then putting his foot down about things and I think that helped a lot.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Salaam Sister Tammy,

Just information, a little bit of opinion, totally based on my own experience (having been married to one Palestinian and 3 Egyptians over 30 years), which may or may not be totally different from yours or anyone else's...

1) We don't know anyone from Egypt who has been able to get a Temp EAD at JFK. My husband has asked everyone he knows and none of them got it. Not on K-1 or K-3.

2) Even if someone does get it, in this economy it doesn't mean he will find a job that he believes is suitable during the 90 days.

3) That being the case he would need to be prepared to spend 6-9 months without earning any income. If you wait until the 90th day to get married, then file the AOS papers, the total time without permission to work legally could easily be that or more. (see my timeline as an example)

4) Egyptians do not accept the notion that they cannot work here simply because they don't have papers. ALL their friends come here and work without them.. so they plan to as well. They don't seem to mind taking the risk of destroying their immigration proceedings, if they can make $$. Money, making even more money, the perception of success, and showing the people "back home" that they improved their lives by immigrating to the West are the TOP PRIORITIES.

5) Very few men immigrating from Egypt have the means to support themselves and their new families with $$ they bring from Egypt. And if they don't plan to support themselves (and also generously contribute to the expenses of the household) in my experience this will likely be a LONG TERM attitude... and is considered quite shameful by Egyptian standards (and goes against how they were raised). And does not bode well...

6) Even if the USC wife doesn't demand or expect to be supported, if the Egyptian husband does not support her over such an extended period of time, he will feel diminished as a husband and a man. This puts a huge strain on the relationship and adds to the other frustrations the couple faces regarding finances, priorities, etc.

And if he doesn't feel bad, well.... what can I say.... there's likely something abnormal going on or something strange about his upbringing... or both...

7) The great majority of Egyptians have little to no concept of step-families, and less about step-parenting. Traditionally (in Egypt) when a woman remarries her children either go to live with their father, or their grandparents. Step fathers in Egypt rarely interact one on one with their step-children. The concept of "Evil Step-parents" is the conventional wisdom. Even step-mother's intentions towards their step-children are considered highly suspicious.

Generally Egyptians love children - their own, and the children of their blood relations and Egyptian friends are of great importance, but this does not always transfer to the children of another man. And in my experience over time, the novelty wears off and because there is no blood-relationship, so does their patience with children who do not behave as they EXPECT children (based on Egyptian standards) to behave. This is particularly true of men who have never raised their own children. (And parenting norms are TOTALLY different in Egypt...)

8) Whoever wrote that everything about choices/relationships change when children are involved spoke the truth. I wholeheartedly wish I had not remarried (my Egyptian ex-husband) after my first marriage (to a Palestinian).

My son was 3 months old when husband #1's drug use and alcoholism finally reached a point I could no longer ignore it or handle it. I waited 9 years to remarry husband #2, and I wish I had waited 9 or 10, or 11 more. My son is scarred for life from the emotional abuse he received, followed by the abandonment of the 2nd husband (8 years later) when he couldn't Adjust Status in the USA and finally gave up and left to live in Canada following a notice of a deportation order.

It never occured to me that if he divorced me he would also divorce my son, who called him "Baba" for 8 years. My son deserved a more stable and less dramatic/chaotic life. I thought he needed a male role model, an example of moral living, a devout/pious Muslim head of the family... (to contrast with how his father was living). I was wrong. He needed security, stability, tranquility, (and the full undivided attention of his mother). I wish this for your children too.

Fi'aman'illah

I am really glad that someone kind of explained out alot of things that I was thinking.

Some things to think about.

No one is saying that marrying someone else from MENA is going to be a bad experience. Quite the contrary, it could be an amazing experience but it could scar your children WORSE than what they have already been through.

Stepchildren and parenting is absolutely NOT THE NORM in a lot of mena countries. We as Americans can easily get into relationships and remarry if we divorce. Many women over there, once they have kids or are divorced,even through no fault of their own, become damaged goods. I don't even have to elaborate or delve into a child born without a father and what happens to illegitamate children over there.

We have to understand as Americans that we operate under an entirely different set of rules and standards than people from over there and as heartbreaking as it is to face, we are sometimes only seen as "boats" to get into the US and I have heard from one mena person, find a dog, a fat woman and old woman, any woman to marry to get the hell out of a bad situation and the reality is that its amusing to some people to hear this kind of garbage but its a reality. Would I want Tammy Kay to have to endure someone using her to get the hell out of Egypt and then dump her on the way to his papers? Oh hell no. Is there a chance that this guy loves her and will stay with her and give her what she needs as a woman and the step father to these kids? Yes there is . But its blatantly unfair and irresponsible NOT TO TALK ABOUT THE CONS of her enduring another transatlantic wait. Its a complicated mess and I think all of us have been through the ringer when it comes to these relationships. I am just glad KHP talked about some of the things that I was thinking and I do not have to reiterate the obvious.

Tammy, you have already made up your mind as to what you are going to do. We, ( I am anyway) are here to support and love you. In fact the spyware you had on your computer, suggested by several here, brought things to a head that could have remained secret.

By the way,

I found out about something else. You can download GPS monitoring software into any phone that is internet enabled.

I wanted to tell you about this because its a new technology and um.... well if he says he is at the mosque 12 hours a day and he is not around at least you could track him somewhere..

Ok this advice is off the chair but spector pro has saved some people some pain and time by internet monitoring.. This monitor is in the cell phones and is undectable.

There are several products, but e stealth.. just google cell phone tracking

Ok back to subject... Tammy do what you feel is best... just realise its awful hard to recover from being used twice and pay attention to red flags and scary feelings... They are there for a reason... Its called the gift of fear

[Nothing1234 2]

This one....