Certified Translations

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Okay, following the advice given here I have brought my question to the all knowing and all wise members of the Russian Forum.

My fiancee has been gathering information for her and her daughter's K-1/2 Kiev interview and she has amassed a large stack of information about what is required from numerous websites (including one known for inaccurate information). She is under the impression that all Russian/Ukrainian documents will need to be translated, certified and notarized.

I thought that they only needed to be translated and certified, but she is adamant and I told her that I would ask here from those who have gone through Kyev.

If I am correct that brings up the other question. How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it??

Dave

I can explain the consusion Dave.

Alla does translations from Russian and Ukrainian. The US CONSULATE requires ONLY that the translations be "certified" by the translator that the translator is competent in both languages and that it is a true and correct translation...PERIOD! You or Oksana can do the translations yourselves if you so choose and are able to

However, UKRAINIAN LAW requires that all translations done by a UKRAINIAN TRANSLATOR in UKRIANE, be notarized and certified and the translator must be certified by the government (licensed, basically) SO...IF Oksana has the translations done in UKRAINE by a UKRAINIAN translator all of the above is TRUE to mee Ukrainian law.

If the translations are done here, the translators statement and signature are all that is required.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

So. If she's going to go through the roof if you don't notarize your translations, then hell, notarize the translations. I'm all about domestic harmony and picking my battles wisely, and to my mind this is a pretty small battle to win. So if you can't convince her, get 'em notarized and make her happy. Once you get to the AOS stage you'll be able to show her on a computer screen in front of both of you that such-and-such a thing is either necessary or not, and then it won't be such a big deal.

Okay folks, write this date on you daytimer, Mox and I agree. This is not a big deal, give her this one. If you are wrong and her particular interviewer requires the notary, you are sunk for the rest of your life and will never ever ever hear the end of this; spend the few rubles and let her win. Agree, pick you battles. Any former or current parent of a teenager knows this!

Having explained the legal technicalities....just do what she wants. She is nervous, people tell her things. She believes them. She also believes drinking water with ice in it will make her ill...so what? she thinks moving air (a draft) will make her ill. She thinks if she sits on a stone or metal bench it will damager her "female parts" and make her sterile. Be prepared for this. Alla spent nearly a month collecting various documents saying she did not owe taxes for this or that, did not own a car, etc. She was told she needed these to leave Ukraine. I told her she did not. She believed her Ukrainian friends and wasted nearly a month doing all this. Finally I just gave up. Of course she never needed the documents, but it wasn't worth fighting over.

You will find this in your everyday life with her also...just get over it.

[mox 298]

And guys, if you're "picking battles" while she's still over there, you've already lost the war.

Hmmm. The "pick your battles" analogy only goes so far, methinks. After that...well, a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver. Hopefully we're not thinking of our relationships in terms of wartime strategies or picking winners and losers.

If you are not wrong, then do not compromise. If you compromise your stance, especially this early in the stage, she will be "right" about everything in the VJ process and probably a lot more stuff throughout your life. Stick to your guns! Or, like I said above, if it's so important for her to be right, then let her pay for it!

So...er...you do understand how compromise works, right?

If money is super tight and having a couple documents notarized would break the bank, then I could almost see your argument. But I think it's safe to say that most people going through this process are already shelling out thousands of dollars, so what's a few more? Don't think of it as unnecessary paperwork, just think of it as another form of buying flowers. When you think of it like that, it's a helluva lot cheaper than Flamingo. Buy her a little peace of mind as a gift. She'll appreciate it far more than going through all the stress of thinking they're going to deny her only to find out you were right weeks later after her intestine has been twisted into granny knots.

Your advice on guns, freedom, and pie is almost always spot on my friend. But I'm going to have to insist you label your relationship advice "for entertainment purposes only." :D

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

And guys, if you're "picking battles" while she's still over there, you've already lost the war.

Hmmm. The "pick your battles" analogy only goes so far, methinks. After that...well, a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver. Hopefully we're not thinking of our relationships in terms of wartime strategies or picking winners and losers.

If you are not wrong, then do not compromise. If you compromise your stance, especially this early in the stage, she will be "right" about everything in the VJ process and probably a lot more stuff throughout your life. Stick to your guns! Or, like I said above, if it's so important for her to be right, then let her pay for it!

So...er...you do understand how compromise works, right?

If money is super tight and having a couple documents notarized would break the bank, then I could almost see your argument. But I think it's safe to say that most people going through this process are already shelling out thousands of dollars, so what's a few more? Don't think of it as unnecessary paperwork, just think of it as another form of buying flowers. When you think of it like that, it's a helluva lot cheaper than Flamingo. Buy her a little peace of mind as a gift. She'll appreciate it far more than going through all the stress of thinking they're going to deny her only to find out you were right weeks later after her intestine has been twisted into granny knots.

Your advice on guns, freedom, and pie is almost always spot on my friend. But I'm going to have to insist you label your relationship advice "for entertainment purposes only." :D

Trust me. I take all of Slim's relationship advice as enterntainment only .

I do want to clarify that the notarization is not an argument or a sticking point for us. The statement about how to tell a woman she is wrong was meant purely in jest. Like the old joke, "if a man says something and a woman is not arround, is he still wrong??"

Thanks Gary about the information about the legalities involved. It explains how our translator was so well know at the Notary.

[johnj 0]

Slim; after you have raised a couple teenagers, you will qualified to comment on "picking your battles"

[mox 298]

Slim; after you have raised a couple teenagers, you will qualified to comment on "picking your battles"

Word.

It bears repeating.

WORD.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Thanks again everyone for the responses. This has been confusing as she has been reading forums on russian-fiancee and making more stress for herself than is needed. She has a lot going on at the moment so I promised I would do this research while she focuses on a crisis in her family.

Dave

Don't be discouraged by this stuff. She is going to be stressed (I am sure you know that but it bears saying here:) ) no matter what, and the best thing you can do is be extra, extra patient - and do the small stuff (like get certs and notary stamps if you can afford it) that just calms her a bit. She will appreciate it, even if she sees later that it what she wanted was unnecessary.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Thanks again everyone for the responses. This has been confusing as she has been reading forums on russian-fiancee and making more stress for herself than is needed. She has a lot going on at the moment so I promised I would do this research while she focuses on a crisis in her family.

Dave

Don't be discouraged by this stuff. She is going to be stressed (I am sure you know that but it bears saying here:) ) no matter what, and the best thing you can do is be extra, extra patient - and do the small stuff (like get certs and notary stamps if you can afford it) that just calms her a bit. She will appreciate it, even if she sees later that it what she wanted was unnecessary.

Well, after on passing the information that Gary provided, the love of my life responded with these infamous words:

"I told you so"

Edited July 9, 2009 by Dave-n-Oksana

[slim 1,530]

However, UKRAINIAN LAW requires that all translations done by a UKRAINIAN TRANSLATOR in UKRIANE, be notarized and certified and the translator must be certified by the government (licensed, basically) SO...IF Oksana has the translations done in UKRAINE by a UKRAINIAN translator all of the above is TRUE to mee Ukrainian law.

If the translations are done here, the translators statement and signature are all that is required.

What does Ukrainian law have to do with U.S. immigration?

If the U.S. government says they want something a certain way, it doesn't matter where or who you are, all that matters is you're doing it the way the U.S. government is requiring you to do it.

Hopefully we're not thinking of our relationships in terms of wartime strategies or picking winners and losers.

You should always think from a tactical standpoint.

So...er...you do understand how compromise works, right?

Compromise is what you do when the cost of taking action outweighs the possible benefit.

If money is super tight and having a couple documents notarized would break the bank, then I could almost see your argument. But I think it's safe to say that most people going through this process are already shelling out thousands of dollars, so what's a few more? Don't think of it as unnecessary paperwork, just think of it as another form of buying flowers. When you think of it like that, it's a helluva lot cheaper than Flamingo. Buy her a little peace of mind as a gift. She'll appreciate it far more than going through all the stress of thinking they're going to deny her only to find out you were right weeks later after her intestine has been twisted into granny knots.

Flowers is a leaky screwdriver. If you buy her a shitload of flowers in the "warming up" stages, guess what she's going to expect in the "daily grind" stage?

The basic point of this situation can be compared to buying flowers. It's not so much the cost associated, it's the principal of the matter. If you set her up now with the expectation that she's always "right" about things you confirm she's incorrect on, even when you show her in print, verify via numerous sources, confirm through government agencies, etc., then she's going to also wonder why you're "wrong" when it comes to things like paying the bills, heating the house, keeping a loaded gun tucked in your trousers - things like that. If you start her down that road now, she will not turn around!

Your advice on guns, freedom, and pie is almost always spot on my friend. But I'm going to have to insist you label your relationship advice "for entertainment purposes only." :D

You may choose to take my relationship adive cum grano salis, but like my guns, freedom and pie advice, I only type the truth.

Slim; after you have raised a couple teenagers, you will qualified to comment on "picking your battles"

I absolutely refuse to pick any battles with teenagers. Teenagers aren't even human, they're less than human. They're maggots. And until they've earned the right to be called humanf'king beings, I will not battle them in any way, shape, or form. I will use pre-emptive surgical strikes to disable their infrastructure before they can pick which side of the hypothetical battle they'd like to be on. (In other words, I'd hide their iPhone so they couldn't text their buddies.)

Well, after on passing the information that Gary provided, the love of my life responded with these infamous words:

"I told you so"

It's only just begun.......

[Brad and Vika 129]

Thanks again everyone for the responses. This has been confusing as she has been reading forums on russian-fiancee and making more stress for herself than is needed. She has a lot going on at the moment so I promised I would do this research while she focuses on a crisis in her family.

Dave

Don't be discouraged by this stuff. She is going to be stressed (I am sure you know that but it bears saying here:) ) no matter what, and the best thing you can do is be extra, extra patient - and do the small stuff (like get certs and notary stamps if you can afford it) that just calms her a bit. She will appreciate it, even if she sees later that it what she wanted was unnecessary.

Well, after on passing the information that Gary provided, the love of my life responded with these infamous words:

"I told you so"

Honestly, you will have to get used to that. Where saying "of course honey, whatever you say" to an American woman would get you points clipped for being patronizing, often a Ukrainian will actually like that you are apparently accepting her point of view, or at least not arguing (because arguing with women is of course not manly ).

[mox 298]

Hopefully we're not thinking of our relationships in terms of wartime strategies or picking winners and losers.

You should always think from a tactical standpoint.

That's how it worked in my starter marriage, and it was miserable.

The basic point of this situation can be compared to buying flowers. It's not so much the cost associated, it's the principal of the matter. If you set her up now with the expectation that she's always "right" about things you confirm she's incorrect on, even when you show her in print, verify via numerous sources, confirm through government agencies, etc., then she's going to also wonder why you're "wrong" when it comes to things like paying the bills, heating the house, keeping a loaded gun tucked in your trousers - things like that. If you start her down that road now, she will not turn around!

I know we tend to argue from the perspective of the relationship we're in, so maybe the expectation of flowers or any gifts in your own has reached ridiculous portions. But speaking from my own experience, buying flowers for my significant other has never escalated into an expectation of more and more. In fact, I can recall one time where I was chastised for buying them twice in one week. I can say the same thing about compromises. We're both adults, and we know that just because one of us is backing down doesn't give us license to step on the gas and take advantage of the situation.

Your advice on guns, freedom, and pie is almost always spot on my friend. But I'm going to have to insist you label your relationship advice "for entertainment purposes only." :D

You may choose to take my relationship adive cum grano salis, but like my guns, freedom and pie advice, I only type the truth.

That you do, my friend, and if anything else you always provide a great read.

I absolutely refuse to pick any battles with teenagers. Teenagers aren't even human, they're less than human. They're maggots. And until they've earned the right to be called humanf'king beings, I will not battle them in any way, shape, or form. I will use pre-emptive surgical strikes to disable their infrastructure before they can pick which side of the hypothetical battle they'd like to be on. (In other words, I'd hide their iPhone so they couldn't text their buddies.)

Are you planning on having kids? (feel free to tell me to mind my own damn beeswax, just curious. ) There's nothing that can make you change your views on child-rearing like having kids.

[Brad and Vika 129]

[i absolutely refuse to pick any battles with teenagers. Teenagers aren't even human, they're less than human. They're maggots. And until they've earned the right to be called humanf'king beings, I will not battle them in any way, shape, or form. I will use pre-emptive surgical strikes to disable their infrastructure before they can pick which side of the hypothetical battle they'd like to be on. (In other words, I'd hide their iPhone so they couldn't text their buddies.)

Ack!

[slim 1,530]

Honestly, you will have to get used to that. Where saying "of course honey, whatever you say" to an American woman would get you points clipped for being patronizing, often a Ukrainian will actually like that you are apparently accepting her point of view, or at least not arguing (because arguing with women is of course not manly ).

I don't know any women from anywhere who don't like being right. But, as I've said above, if she's not right, there will be no "of course honey, whatever you say." I just will not do it. I can't. I actually just lost some money at work because I refused to tell my boss he was right. He was not. I told him so, he didn't like it, and when I got my stellar performance review, it was missing some money because, "well, you pissed the big boss off and until you prove to him that you can change your attitude, you're not going to get much more money than that." - Small price to pay for $6 a week.

That's how it worked in my starter marriage, and it was miserable.

Thinking tactically should be a way of life, not just for relationships. I'm all for blissful ignorance and romantic whims, but I have a well thought out position first.

I know we tend to argue from the perspective of the relationship we're in, so maybe the expectation of flowers or any gifts in your own has reached ridiculous portions. But speaking from my own experience, buying flowers for my significant other has never escalated into an expectation of more and more. In fact, I can recall one time where I was chastised for buying them twice in one week. I can say the same thing about compromises. We're both adults, and we know that just because one of us is backing down doesn't give us license to step on the gas and take advantage of the situation.

If it's a situation where "you're both right" then sure, it's acceptable to back down. But, when it's a situation of you having documented evidence of your correctness, never back down!

That you do, my friend, and if anything else you always provide a great read.

I actually have a buddy that's told me, "you guys may not have a loving and passionate relationship - but it sure is entertaining!"

Are you planning on having kids? (feel free to tell me to mind my own damn beeswax, just curious. ) There's nothing that can make you change your views on child-rearing like having kids.

We're not planning on having kids anytime soon. (Knocking on all the wood in the house right now.) But I don't really see how having kids or not having kids would really change my views. It may change my practice, but it shouldn't change my views. I may "compromise" my own views a little more but it shouldn't change any of my moral convictions.

Many people have told me, "well, you can't comment on that because you're not a parent." Well, I'm here to tell you, the act of reproduction doesn't automatically make anyone more qualified than anyone else to comment on parenting or child-rearing. We were all children at one point and we all had parents at one point. That pretty much places all of us in the same boat. You can claim you have more insight because you've "been on the other side" but that's a moot point because everyone's situation is different. Could I claim to be more of an expert because I had two sets of parents? I got twice the view of most kids, wouldn't that mean I know twice as much? Same goes for those parents with multiple kids. "Oh you don't know what it's like because you don't have six kids." - Ah, actually yes I do know what it's like because having six kids sucks and that's why I don't have six kids.

I'm not arguing the point that maybe I'd "let a little bit go just to save my sanity." I can compare/contrast that with being married. There are many, many, many things I do in practice that I wouldn't do in theory because, as you guys have all said, "it's just easier to let it go than to stand by your convictions." But, my convictions haven't changed and I'll stick by them as long as possible.

On the kids note, a husband and wife are equal. They share power, they squabble over power, they (should!) respect each other's power. Kids are not equal. It is important for them to know (and be reminded) that they are not the most important part of the family. Too many people today put their kids first and their marriage second. That is incorrect. If you put your marriage first then the kids will follow because part of having a good marriage is the surrounding family's happiness as a byproduct of the husband and wife's happiness.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Many people have told me, "well, you can't comment on that because you're not a parent." Well, I'm here to tell you, the act of reproduction doesn't automatically make anyone more qualified than anyone else to comment on parenting or child-rearing. We were all children at one point and we all had parents at one point. That pretty much places all of us in the same boat. You can claim you have more insight because you've "been on the other side" but that's a moot point because everyone's situation is different. Could I claim to be more of an expert because I had two sets of parents? I got twice the view of most kids, wouldn't that mean I know twice as much? Same goes for those parents with multiple kids. "Oh you don't know what it's like because you don't have six kids." - Ah, actually yes I do know what it's like because having six kids sucks and that's why I don't have six kids.

If you put your marriage first then the kids will follow because part of having a good marriage is the surrounding family's happiness as a byproduct of the husband and wife's happiness.

I agree with that last bit slim, a child SHOULD be a celebration of the love in a relationship. Often they are not, and the kids suffer most for that. As for the rest, reproduction alone doesn't qualify you to comment with authority on child rearing, but experience of being an active parent certainly does. Trust me, if you had a teen you would argue with him/her. Often.

[Rob_Lesya 4]

Trust me, if you had a teen you would argue with him/her. Often.

I assume you've heard the ad for the "Total Transformation Package" from James Lehman --- they guy who says he can stop all of the lying, arguing, and back-talking from your kids in about 45 seconds.

Not sure what Lehman proposes to do--- but I imagine the Slim version would be --- put a .45 to their head and give 'em the classic, "I brought you into this world -- I can also take you out!" ---- That'll shut 'em up!