Maybe USCs should have more weight in the matter...

[rebeccajo 14]

No offense or anything, but can you imagine if any other facet of the government was run the way our immigration system was? It'd be totally outrageous. I can just see it now: "Every single appealate court was just disestablished by Congress and the Supreme Court was abolished by constitutional amendment." "So what? YOU have the power. YOU can present a good defense at your criminal trial. Grab those knobs and squeeze them. If YOU get convicted in some shame trial, that's your fault."

I mean, the most basic understanding of government seems to show that without oversight and transparency, government will never work well. It's almost a law of nature.

Government doesn't work well, agreed. If USCIS or the State Dept. had any competition in the visa market we would be bailing them out like an automaker.

I hope you did not take any of my comments to insinuate I trust the government. I trust myself to do what is best for myself and my family. If I represented myself in a criminal trial, sham or otherwise, which I have the right to do...and lost, it WOULD be my fault. Though I did not feel compelled to make up scenarios when we have perfect examples of real accomplishments by real people.

Forgive me if I offend by expressing belief that I have ownership of my life, not the government, not the consulates and definitely not one faceless person I never saw.

My wife is at my side, and Tbone's is at his side, due to what we did. I will, and have, conceded Tbone had to do more than I did. But HE did it.

I think that this is demonstrably false -- court cases are overturned all the time due to proceedual errors that are not the fault of the defendant. There are plenty of governmental actions that have built-in adminstrative appeals. I've actually probably won perhaps fifty to one hundred administrative appeals with the Department of State in the course of my job. I don't think it's a total stretch to say that if there was a real administrative appeal process for visa interviews, consular decisions would be overturned all the time also.

OK, Mike, YOU have no control over your life. It is too bad. I on the other hand have always had a great amount of control on MINE. I suppose since you let people jerk you around, lose court cases on technicalities and such, you would feel that way. Sorry, I do not, and will not agree with you that I have little control over my life, the visa process or my future.

You are welcome to wait for Obama to fix yours or you.

Oh I sense somebody has his "lawyer" radar up and decided to get pi$$y.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I was reading this thread

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205093

And someone brought up something that seems to hit home for almost everyone that is going through on this process. When it is all said and done, all the paperwork and the hassles of securing your loved one a visa to enter the country.. It all comes down to a single person at the embassy to be given the duty to interview you and ultimately decide whether or not your loved one should be allowed to enter the country or not. Now i know that this single job is a very demanding and stressful job.. Golly I cannot imagine living with the nightmares some of these people deal with on a daily basis but leaving it up to just a single person who decides on the whole case is pretty unfair. Should the worse of experiences happens, you or your spouse/fiancee/relative get ridiculed for bringing insufficient/overwhelming evidence, treated unfairly/biassedly/rudely, or just plain put into a stereotypical category from first glance. We should have protections set in place that a USC can petition for or complain about. The thread that i spunned this other subject from there was a man and his significant other who brought sufficient evidence but the CO said it was not enough and flat out told her to return. To protect us and valid couples, what have people done to complain or petition for another review? Like i said in that thread, "I do not like the idea of someone deciding the fate of our lives, the military does that enough for me.."

What can we do in case this happens? What are our rights as USCs? What can we do to not let aholes, ignorant people, biased, and not properly trained COs dictate our lives? I'm only writing this topic thread because I want to look out for everyone else and see what our are options are in the matter. I have not experienced this myself but reading up on it from other people's experiences make me a little worried... Your opinions and discussion is greatly appreciated.

James

You, as a USC have a right to petition a visa for your SO. Your SO as a foreign national has NO right to a visa. NO visa is denied based on a single person's decision. Petitionss are returned to USCIS for review with a recommendation of denial. USCIS often re-affirms and re-sends the petition back to the consulate (we see threads about this here all the time) and there is a forum dedicated just to such denials and what you can do about them.

It is a mis-statement to say that ONE PERSON makes a decision to deny, simply isn't true.

In just as many...actually far more cases, the visa is approved with no questions asked. (i see no one complaining about that) And even then it is not the decision of one person. For one thing, the ONE person doing the interview follows the rules and practices of the consulate which was the result of many people's work. One person may do the interview but it is a mistake to assume it was his/her on the spot decision. The decision has usually been made before the interview (hence the frequent "no questions asked" interviews) by reviewing the documents YOU have presented. YOU and your fiancee have a right to present your case and provide evidence of a bona fide relationship. I suggest you prepare for it.

The TWO people most influential in this process are YOU and your FIANCE(E) If you go around blaming it on the "one mysterious person" or think it is so, you are doomed to fail.

It is REQUIRED at the Guayaquil Consulate to be at the interview. I get where you're coming from and it sounds like you have a lot of life experience but trust me, I have endured the stuff you say you would go through for your woman (the fighting of the proverbial demons, dragons, standing in the rain for hours, etc). Not to toot my own horn, but I am as tough as they come and love this woman with all my heart and soul but it seems to me that the consulate you went through was easy and your comments are not grounded from the experience of going through what a growing number of us have gone through. Contrary to what you have heard or what the law is in these matters, ONE person CAN and does determine the fate of your case at Guayaquil. I understand that your response to this statement might be that if someone loves a person then they will tear down the walls for them and deal with it because you love them etc.

However, I don't get the impression from your posts you acknowledge or appreciate how difficult, ambiguous and absurd these Ecuador cases really are and that people are getting HAMMERED by this place. They have written their government representatives, have submitted loads of evidence and have fought the bloody battle and STILL are being HOSED. It turns out that one person dictates the pace and life of your case (in other words, this one person cups your jewels the entire time and from time to time kicks them and whatever else they want to do with them because there are no rules, no laywers, no protection for the USC--end of story).

I agree with your take that we control our own destiny and that the gist of what you're saying about taking action and getting stuff done when things get tough. However, Guayaquil is a different place. This is a place where logic, reason, and rationale are not. Guayaquil is a place with its own set of shifting rules and the rogue Consulate is no exception. So, I would encourage you to do some research about this city before you make generalizations regarding the tactics that worked in other parts of the world and expect them to apply them to this rathole consulate; the consulate mirrors the community it is in. When the Civil Registro of Ecuador is a better run and more trustworth outfit than the U.S. Consulate, we have major problems and believe me, I have the experience of having to go to the Civil Registro to get a identification card for our son who was born down there. Oddly, I was treated with more respect in my 3 hours there at the Civil Registro of Ecuador than at ANY time dealing with the United States Guayaquil Consulate.

I missed his birth and helping my fiance and being with her because of one woman--our C.O. and there was nothing that could be done about it because she decided she didn't want to give the visa. It is the truth. One person determined that I couldn't get down to be there for my fiance and son despite having had mounds of evidence. No amount of positive thinking or taking time off work, etc. could have changed this situation because there was a woman who was determined to be a thorn in our side because of the unchecked power given to her. And what is even scarier is that this person seemed to enjoy throwing down an idiotic guantlet of requirements to prove our relationship.

So, I wanted to side with T-Bone on his points because they are all true and valid when it comes to GUAYAQUIL. I am absolutely 100 percent FIRED UP that they got away with what they did. However, the visa is in her hands and yes it is so because I made it so with over a six months of smash-mouth fighting with this psycho consular officer.

Everything, I mean everything about this consulate's interactions with us were deceiving. I commend and admire people that go through the process of brining someone they love to our country. As we all know, the process isn't easy and I understand what your position is, I just had to chime in from the sidelines and because this is such a hot button for me and needed to defend the position that this consulate's practices have to be reigned in.

Tbone, I think I have been clear in the past that I greatly respect what you went through. I think I have mentioned it many times in theis thread alone. You are a fine example of what a man will do for his woman and I am proud to be a fellow Texican (along with Daboyz) albeit you ARE from east Texas, I'm still damn proud of you. I think also your wie can go to sleep every night knowing her husband would do anything for her and has demonstrated it.

I think also your case proves my point, as I have said before. YOU, the USC through YOUR actions overruled this ONE person in Guayaquil and I personally hoped you really ruined his day in doing it. NO ONE else could have done what you did, in the sense that ONLY the USC can instigate such action. YOU are man that DID what I say I would do (I would, really) and proved that no matter what if you stick to it and set your mind to it, you will achieve your goal. It has always been my experience in life and why I have absolute trust in myself. NO ONE will have the interest and care about your own case that you do.

And I agree that the consulates procedures need to be corrected, it is not an isolated incident. I have read your story and others in the LA forum and something should be done. Someone their is out of control. But who will do this? US citizens...THAT is who. Those of you that have been hosed there should get together and petition for changes and don't stop until you win. You have, of course been to the TR museum in Waco. There is a statue of a very big man there with a favorite Texas saying..."NO ONE can stop a man who is in the right and keeps on coming!"

[TBoneTX 45,312]

Tbone,

More accurately, "PDXbicycleboy" (who wrote the post to which you responded, and who suffered FAR WORSE than the rest of us).

albeit you ARE from east Texas

Incorrect.

You have, of course been to the TR museum in Waco.

I have not, of course. Please avoid assumptions!

[Mike B. 231]

No offense or anything, but can you imagine if any other facet of the government was run the way our immigration system was? It'd be totally outrageous. I can just see it now: "Every single appealate court was just disestablished by Congress and the Supreme Court was abolished by constitutional amendment." "So what? YOU have the power. YOU can present a good defense at your criminal trial. Grab those knobs and squeeze them. If YOU get convicted in some shame trial, that's your fault."

I mean, the most basic understanding of government seems to show that without oversight and transparency, government will never work well. It's almost a law of nature.

Government doesn't work well, agreed. If USCIS or the State Dept. had any competition in the visa market we would be bailing them out like an automaker.

I hope you did not take any of my comments to insinuate I trust the government. I trust myself to do what is best for myself and my family. If I represented myself in a criminal trial, sham or otherwise, which I have the right to do...and lost, it WOULD be my fault. Though I did not feel compelled to make up scenarios when we have perfect examples of real accomplishments by real people.

Forgive me if I offend by expressing belief that I have ownership of my life, not the government, not the consulates and definitely not one faceless person I never saw.

My wife is at my side, and Tbone's is at his side, due to what we did. I will, and have, conceded Tbone had to do more than I did. But HE did it.

I think that this is demonstrably false -- court cases are overturned all the time due to proceedual errors that are not the fault of the defendant. There are plenty of governmental actions that have built-in adminstrative appeals. I've actually probably won perhaps fifty to one hundred administrative appeals with the Department of State in the course of my job. I don't think it's a total stretch to say that if there was a real administrative appeal process for visa interviews, consular decisions would be overturned all the time also.

OK, Mike, YOU have no control over your life. It is too bad. I on the other hand have always had a great amount of control on MINE. I suppose since you let people jerk you around, lose court cases on technicalities and such, you would feel that way. Sorry, I do not, and will not agree with you that I have little control over my life, the visa process or my future.

You are welcome to wait for Obama to fix yours or you.

Like I said before, I have, on dozens of occasions, been able to prove that the Department of State has totally screwed up and violated the law and/or their own internal regulations, despite the fact that State is certainly, at least in my area, the most with-it of the departments. Simply put, wherever there is a venue to prove how terrible the government is run, it's easy to do it. No one in the government knows what the hell they are doing.

In the area of immigration, this is solved not by actually doing a decent job, but rather by just taking away any venue that people have to prove what a crappy job the government does. The immigration process is totally opaque, the government goes out of its way to do a lousy job of tracking and reporting what is going on, and there is no appeal processes.

When you win an administrative appeal, it is a admission by the government that they screwed up and violated the law, unfairly depriving someone of his rights. Why should I believe and assertation that the government doesn't screw things up and unfairly deny citizens and non-citizens alike what they deserve when I've got a stack of such admissions sitting on my desk? Why in the world would you assume that an administrative appeals process in immigration wouldn't find errors all the time, just like similar processes do? It just doesn't make any sense.

You can argue until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that ordinary citizens do not hold the same amount of political power that, say, government employees hold. COs by definition hold power over citizens and their fiancees. Reasonable people can disagree about how much of a check should be put on that power, but that doesn't change the fact that they do indeed hold more power.

[TBoneTX 45,312]

COs by definition hold power over citizens and their fiancees.

Si, man -- 100% correct.