Anti-Islam demonstrators at Boston mosque opening

[Ahmeds Girl 0]

Balance requires that all aspects are looked at when wondering why criticism is sometimes levelled at Muslims. If some Muslims make hateful and untrue statements, is it surprising that an apology is met with cynicism? Too often I see religious people complaining about tolerance when some appear to show little respect or tolerance themselves.

Muslims aren't the only people who have called jews "prophet killers" or whatever the term they used. Mel Gibson had a similar debate about jews killing Jesus and they also tried to attack him for that. He stood by his statement and referred to the Bible when defending himself. I don't see people harping on him about it, till this day...

"Muslims aren't the only people who have called jews "prophet killers" or whatever the term they used."

Ah - so Muslims need seek no higher standards then?. It's fine to be ignorant and hateful... as long as others are?

Mel Gibson's stupidity is far from forgotten. The media will use that drunken rant whenever they want to.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Ahmeds Girl

[Ahmeds Girl 0]

Has anyone even read what he wrote that was so offensive? I just keep seeing the quote that he said jews were prophet killers but I don't see the rest of what he wrote. What I did read that it was during the year 2000 when a lot of tempers were flared over something Israel had done (I didn't look to see when it was exactly). Who here hasn't said something out of anger? Who here isn't human and doesn't make mistakes. Why ruin a beautiful Ecumenical (sp?) moment at the opening of such an amazing mosque like that?

BTW the mosque is truly amazing but it's in the worst possible crime area in Boston. It was put there for that very reason, to try to get the gangs off the street.

Has anyone even read what he wrote that was so offensive? I just keep seeing the quote that he said jews were prophet killers but I don't see the rest of what he wrote.

Saying that Jews are prophet killers isn't enough for you? That doesn't qualify as offensive, but equally stupid remarks about Muslims are offensive?

"# Another Islamic Society trustee, Walid Fitaihi, is the author of writings that denounce Jews as ''murderers of the prophets" who ''brought the worst corruption to the earth" and should be punished for their ''oppression, murder, and rape of the worshipers of Allah." After Fitaihi's words were reported in the Boston press, the Islamic Society was urged to unequivocally repudiate them. It took seven months before it finally did so."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial..._should_answer/

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Oh man oh man, let's drag out the pitch forks and go after this guy too

You nest of poisonous snakes! How will you escape from being sentenced to hell?

So I am sending you prophets, wise men, and teachers. You will kill some of them. You will nail some to a cross. Others you will whip in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

[Ahmeds Girl 0]

Oh man oh man, let's drag out the pitch forks and go after this guy too

You nest of poisonous snakes! How will you escape from being sentenced to hell?

So I am sending you prophets, wise men, and teachers. You will kill some of them. You will nail some to a cross. Others you will whip in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Religious texts always demonstrate perfectly to me that God had no part in them. It doesn't matter if the texts are Christian, Muslim or Jewish... they never fail to reveal the ugliness and self interest of the men who wrote them, despite some beautiful sentiments.

[sandinista! 1,816]

so which is it then? public flogging? the pillory? or are you looking for something even more draconian?

in general, no, i don't look at people's apologies with cynicism unless there is a really good reason to. which i'm not seeing in this particular case. nor do i think walid fitaihi's words (which were written at the height of the 2nd intifada, and that he admitted were written at a time when his emotions were over-riding his rationality and reasoning, and is sorry for that happening) mean that people with religious beliefs should be subjected to witch hunts. which is what this appears to be, rather than a balanced, nuanced examination of the incident. have you applied the same scrutiny to charles jacobs, cited as being the 'leading critic of the mosque'? his affiliation with camera makes him wide open to to a whole lot of criticism himself.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Oh man oh man, let's drag out the pitch forks and go after this guy too

You nest of poisonous snakes! How will you escape from being sentenced to hell?

So I am sending you prophets, wise men, and teachers. You will kill some of them. You will nail some to a cross. Others you will whip in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Religious texts always demonstrate perfectly to me that God had no part in them. It doesn't matter if the texts are Christian, Muslim or Jewish... they never fail to reveal the ugliness and self interest of the men who wrote them, despite some beautiful sentiments.

oh, so now it's all about everyone's religious texts being "ugly" and fulfilling the "self interests of the men who wrote them". similar sentiments to those up above from the book of luke are expressed in the tanakh, in the book of amos. on what basis are these passages ugly? whose self interests are being served in them? is writing about the condemnation and punishment for wrong acts strictly the denizen of religion throughout the entire history of literature?

regardless,the reduction of the entire religious texts of islam, judaism, or christianity to out of context scraps of scripture is as stupid and wrong headed as a religious person seizing on those same scraps of scripture while shutting out the bigger picture and real message of their faith. it's every bit as stupid when you do it as it is when they do it.

[Ahmeds Girl 0]

You misconstrue every remark. Amusing!

Quoting religious texts is not something I have done in an effort to justify hate speech. I didn't quote a single line of scripture. See above. Religion is YOUR truth. It isn't fact. It isn't universally agreed upon. I respect human rights, not religious dogma. Beautiful sentiments are cotained in religion, which I acknowledged. Beautiful sentiments are also expressed about God in literature. I also see that man's tribal nature and ugliness is evident in the Abrahamic faiths as I believe they were created by men. You and others disagree. I didn't call your views stupid, yet most posts you respond to contain a disproportionate level of wronged indignation.

As for the "Real message of faith''... what is it? Love? Peace? Tolerance? Why is it that some people of faith show so little of it to anyone disagreeing with the content or central beliefs of their religion? Perhaps it's because their 'holy books' contain conflicting and flawed texts which are easily exploited and used to encourage hatred.

Now can we return to the subject matter please? Walid Fitaihi made his remarks not long after the attrocities at The World Trade Center, as I understand it. You talk about emotions running high and 'witch hunts', yet fail to consider how such remarks impact on the Boston community. In my opinion, Muslims should have exactly the same rights to worship as all other Americans (or not worship any faith!). It doesn't promote goodwill to wait seven months to apologize for remarks made against Jews by the trustee of a mosque. Muslims who don't speak out against such remarks don't help the broader community's fight against prejudice. Muslims are part of that broader community, whether some peple like it or not. The article posted in the topic starter contained offensive remarks about Jews, but only the offensive parts about Muslims were highlighted. This kind of unbalanced approach fails everyone. What's wrong with seeing the problems created by hatred from all sides? The article also contained positive and respectful quotes about Muslims and the role of the new mosque. No belief system will every gain 100% aproval. In America - thank God, every voice can be heard, but those with views that disturb the community should expect some flak. The handful of protestors should expect this too.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Ahmeds Girl

[Nothing1234 2]

There are days when reading VJ that I wish I could just give some people a good ole noogie and the bickering and attacking would just end. Noogies work great...unfortunately not in the virtual world.

So I'm sending a good ole virtual noogie

In case there are those of you who do not know what a noogie is....instructions!

http://www.wikihow.com/Give-a-Good-Noogie

Peace

Edited June 30, 2009 by Nawal

[UmmSqueakster 54]

This is nothing compared to the ol MENA fight club days. I haven't had to bust out Daler in years

[sandinista! 1,816]

You misconstrue every remark. Amusing!

Quoting religious texts is not something I have done in an effort to justify hate speech. I didn't quote a single line of scripture. See above. Religion is YOUR truth. It isn't fact. It isn't universally agreed upon. I respect human rights, not religious dogma. Beautiful sentiments are cotained in religion, which I acknowledged. Beautiful sentiments are also expressed about God in literature. I also see that man's tribal nature and ugliness is evident in the Abrahamic faiths as I believe they were created by men. You and others disagree. I didn't call your views stupid, yet most posts you respond to contain a disproportionate level of wronged indignation.

As for the "Real message of faith''... what is it? Love? Peace? Tolerance? Why is it that some people of faith show so little of it to anyone disagreeing with the content or central beliefs of their religion? Perhaps it's because their 'holy books' contain conflicting and flawed texts which are easily exploited and used to encourage hatred.

Now can we return to the subject matter please? Walid Fitaihi made his remarks not long after the attrocities at The World Trade Center, as I understand it. You talk about emotions running high and 'witch hunts', yet fail to consider how such remarks impact on the Boston community. In my opinion, Muslims should have exactly the same rights to worship as all other Americans (or not worship any faith!). It doesn't promote goodwill to wait seven months to apologize for remarks made against Jews by the trustee of a mosque. Muslims who don't speak out against such remarks don't help the broader community's fight against prejudice. Muslims are part of that broader community, whether some peple like it or not. The article posted in the topic starter contained offensive remarks about Jews, but only the offensive parts about Muslims were highlighted. This kind of unbalanced approach fails everyone. What's wrong with seeing the problems created by hatred from all sides? The article also contained positive and respectful quotes about Muslims and the role of the new mosque. No belief system will every gain 100% aproval. In America - thank God, every voice can be heard, but those with views that disturb the community should expect some flak. The handful of protestors should expect this too.

in this entire thread, where have i said anything, even once, about my religious beliefs? i have no tolerance for the sentiments expressed by walid fitaihi. the fact that i find the apology he made over two years ago to be genuine, and that i think he should be able to go on with his duties as a trustee of this masjid without being castigated over and over again in public does not mean i lack balance though. harping on and on about it out of proportion for what the incident merits, an incident that has been apologized for a long time ago, is the position lacking balance. the offensive parts about muslims were highlighted in the article because they were timely. the masjid opened last friday. the article in which fitaihi made those comments was published almost 10 years ago. (prior to 9/11, not after, though why you mentioned it either way i don't understand). the apology took place over 2 years ago. it's long since been addressed. see the difference between the two events? it's not that people don't care about walid fitaihi's comments. they did, years ago. and he apologized for them, years ago. how many more times does it need to be mentioned? are those comments then to be the sum total of his entire existence on this planet, forever in eternity?

why does it matter how long it took to get an apology? does it make the apology less sincere or heartfelt? i don't think so. does it make it any more difficult to move on after the incident? i don't see why it should. he hasn't presented any reason for why his apology and regret over the incident shouldn't be accepted. if the comments have such a deep impact on the community in boston, his apology should have an equal impact. an apology that was promoted in great part by other muslims discussing the incident amongst themselves and with fitaihi in order to make him see his error and do his best to reconcile it. so again, i disagree with who you think is lacking balance here when it comes to this particular story.

This is nothing compared to the ol MENA fight club days. I haven't had to bust out Daler in years

he's a good lookin' fella.

[sandinista! 1,816]

There are days when reading VJ that I wish I could just give some people a good ole noogie and the bickering and attacking would just end. Noogies work great...unfortunately not in the virtual world.

So I'm sending a good ole virtual noogie

In case there are those of you who do not know what a noogie is....instructions!

http://www.wikihow.com/Give-a-Good-Noogie

Peace

my son has recently discovered noogies, and has been driving us crazy with them for the last week. i've had about all the noogies i can handle lately!