California,... here we go.

[scandal 951]

There's something people that keep on saying "The Republicans are to blame" just keep on wanting to forget happened, but no matter how you try, you cannot avoid that it actually did.

California hasn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate for over 20 years. Blaming the GOP is as credible as the Iranian leadership blaming foreign powers, which haven't been in Iran for 30 years, for all the current protests in Iran.

It's actually quite funny and telling (of things to come) when California.. yes, CALIFORNIA... is blaming the collapse on Republicans.

Kinda gives us a peek at how the obama economy will be spun.

Um... I do believe they are talking about Republicans in the California state legislature. In Sacramento. Of which there are, oh, a handful or two. Orange County, and all that.

[mawilson 2,133]

The Republican blocking force is the crippling issue. I watched an hour long special on it on 60 minutes I think of the way California was going. It was something that was instituted a long time ago which no other state has and basically put this voting minority in power to prevent spending and increased taxation. There is a narrow margin to over turn it which is virtually impossible. It's the very few wealthy protecting themselves while so many have to go without. It's disgusting.

If it wasn't for the Republicans, you'd be paying 20% in state taxes by now.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

If your rich folk are anything like my rich folk.... you never even see the home owner outside... and God forbid actually working in the yard.

Which makes me wonder.... how is it you know those "Armed response" signs belong to whites?

And what does it say that when the most diverse city in the world would have citizens who feel the need for such signs. (I've never seen yard-signs like that anyplace I have lived.)

Because I'm referring to Bel Air housing estates. I know what the racial makeup of that community is.

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

The Republican blocking force is the crippling issue. I watched an hour long special on it on 60 minutes I think of the way California was going. It was something that was instituted a long time ago which no other state has and basically put this voting minority in power to prevent spending and increased taxation. There is a narrow margin to over turn it which is virtually impossible. It's the very few wealthy protecting themselves while so many have to go without. It's disgusting.

Calfornia would be the perfect state for conservatives to vanish from the world of politics. Allow people to see liberalism at its finest. Unchecked liberal policies will always fail in a capitalistic society. ( Always).

I say allow the democrats to have all the seats in the state goverment.

Rebellion would occur in less than a year and a lesson would be learned.

[mawilson 2,133]

Calfornia would be the perfect state for conservatives to vanish from the world of politics. Allow people to see liberalism at its finest. Unchecked liberal policies will always fail in a capitalistic society. ( Always).

I say allow the democrats to have all the seats in the state goverment.

Rebellion would occur in less than a year and a lesson would be learned.

They would spend themselves to oblivion... oh wait, they've already done that, even with the Republicans keeping them in check.

[scandal 951]

The Republican blocking force is the crippling issue. I watched an hour long special on it on 60 minutes I think of the way California was going. It was something that was instituted a long time ago which no other state has and basically put this voting minority in power to prevent spending and increased taxation. There is a narrow margin to over turn it which is virtually impossible. It's the very few wealthy protecting themselves while so many have to go without. It's disgusting.

Calfornia would be the perfect state for conservatives to vanish from the world of politics. Allow people to see liberalism at its finest. Unchecked liberal policies will always fail in a capitalistic society. ( Always).

I say allow the democrats to have all the seats in the state goverment.

Rebellion would occur in less than a year and a lesson would be learned.

This is such a load of hooey it's hard to even know where to begin. Outside of CA, the state has a reputation as being liberal and progressive. Within the state, the liberal areas are largely confined to the Bay Area, Los Angeles with some penetration to the Inland Empire, and in some of the northern counties around Mendocino.

Other than that the state is more conservative than liberal. That includes conservative urban areas such as Orange County and San Diego, as well as the Central Valley (Fresno, Bakersfield, etc). Sacramento is probably a toss-up.

In Orange County alone:

According to the Orange County Registrar of Voters, as of June 25, 2009, Orange County had 1,599,614 registered voters. Of these, 43.7% (698,893) are registered Republicans, and 32.0% (512,069) are registered Democrats. An additional 20.2% (324,090) declined to state a political party.[13]

There are more registered Republicans in only Orange County than there are in some entire Red states! (Think Wyoming or Nebraska).

I realize that Nobody was kidding a bit in his statements (yes I see the emot).

But there is a serious issue here, namely the largest state in the union (by population and economy) has a chronic ongoing failure to provide decent government. I for one do not blame either party solely. I think both parties have gerrymandered their districts to ensure that all the seats are "safe" and very few need to be actively contested. This leads to nepotism and bad government. The legislate-by-ballot style of government in CA is absolutely ridiculous. If you've never see an CA ballot, you should take a look at one. Inevitably voters get to decide on at a dozen or more state-wide or county-wide proposals, in many cases with serious lifelong consequences (think Prop 13, Prop 8 as nationally famous examples). This is is democracy-by-mob, not democracy by representatives who listen, reason, propose legislation, hammer it out in committee, bring it to the floor for votes. It would be a silly joke if it was an insignificant piss-poor nobody state (say, Rhode Island). But CA actually matters. Not just to Californians, but to everyone in the US.

[Ken y Leidys 20]

I bugged out of there, much happier with how things are run in Springfield IL. Here the voters have no say whatsoever.

But, how do you tolerate the weather there? When I lived in Michigan for 2 years, I completely hated the place. Nothing to do on weekends in the winter except wait out ice storms where you had no power. No chance for going to the beach, because iced over roads prevented even a drive to Lake Michigan. Negative personalities. Bad economy. I'll take Southern CA and the referendum process to Midwestern weather & general boredom.

[scandal 951]

I bugged out of there, much happier with how things are run in Springfield IL. Here the voters have no say whatsoever.

But, how do you tolerate the weather there? When I lived in Michigan for 2 years, I completely hated the place. Nothing to do on weekends in the winter except wait out ice storms where you had no power. No chance for going to the beach, because iced over roads prevented even a drive to Lake Michigan. Negative personalities. Bad economy. I'll take Southern CA and the referendum process to Midwestern weather & general boredom.

To each their own.

I loved living in CA when I did (I lived in the Bay area, it was great).

As to the weather - I grew up in Canada, so a little bit of snow doesn't bother me. On the contrary, I love having 4 seasons. I don't think I'd want to live in MI, but I'm enjoying life in Chicago very much. Got me a nice little house in the burbs, cost a fraction of what my townhouse in Sunnyvale cost, and I've got a 2 car garage, a huge backyard and front yard, full finished basement... would never get that in the Bay area.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Burn California, Burn!

[mawilson 2,133]

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

The Republican blocking force is the crippling issue. I watched an hour long special on it on 60 minutes I think of the way California was going. It was something that was instituted a long time ago which no other state has and basically put this voting minority in power to prevent spending and increased taxation. There is a narrow margin to over turn it which is virtually impossible. It's the very few wealthy protecting themselves while so many have to go without. It's disgusting.

Calfornia would be the perfect state for conservatives to vanish from the world of politics. Allow people to see liberalism at its finest. Unchecked liberal policies will always fail in a capitalistic society. ( Always).

I say allow the democrats to have all the seats in the state goverment.

Rebellion would occur in less than a year and a lesson would be learned.

This is such a load of hooey it's hard to even know where to begin. Outside of CA, the state has a reputation as being liberal and progressive. Within the state, the liberal areas are largely confined to the Bay Area, Los Angeles with some penetration to the Inland Empire, and in some of the northern counties around Mendocino.

Other than that the state is more conservative than liberal. That includes conservative urban areas such as Orange County and San Diego, as well as the Central Valley (Fresno, Bakersfield, etc). Sacramento is probably a toss-up.

In Orange County alone:

According to the Orange County Registrar of Voters, as of June 25, 2009, Orange County had 1,599,614 registered voters. Of these, 43.7% (698,893) are registered Republicans, and 32.0% (512,069) are registered Democrats. An additional 20.2% (324,090) declined to state a political party.[13]

There are more registered Republicans in only Orange County than there are in some entire Red states! (Think Wyoming or Nebraska).

I realize that Nobody was kidding a bit in his statements (yes I see the emot).

But there is a serious issue here, namely the largest state in the union (by population and economy) has a chronic ongoing failure to provide decent government. I for one do not blame either party solely. I think both parties have gerrymandered their districts to ensure that all the seats are "safe" and very few need to be actively contested. This leads to nepotism and bad government. The legislate-by-ballot style of government in CA is absolutely ridiculous. If you've never see an CA ballot, you should take a look at one. Inevitably voters get to decide on at a dozen or more state-wide or county-wide proposals, in many cases with serious lifelong consequences (think Prop 13, Prop 8 as nationally famous examples). This is is democracy-by-mob, not democracy by representatives who listen, reason, propose legislation, hammer it out in committee, bring it to the floor for votes. It would be a silly joke if it was an insignificant piss-poor nobody state (say, Rhode Island). But CA actually matters. Not just to Californians, but to everyone in the US.

No I'm dead serious. My opinion is no more a load of ####### than most of your rambling posts.

Sometimes serious actions are required for serious problems. Not just feel good stuff.

Of course, this is not a 5000 word post which you might classify as hooey. Mr elitist

[scandal 951]

The Republican blocking force is the crippling issue. I watched an hour long special on it on 60 minutes I think of the way California was going. It was something that was instituted a long time ago which no other state has and basically put this voting minority in power to prevent spending and increased taxation. There is a narrow margin to over turn it which is virtually impossible. It's the very few wealthy protecting themselves while so many have to go without. It's disgusting.

Calfornia would be the perfect state for conservatives to vanish from the world of politics. Allow people to see liberalism at its finest. Unchecked liberal policies will always fail in a capitalistic society. ( Always).

I say allow the democrats to have all the seats in the state goverment.

Rebellion would occur in less than a year and a lesson would be learned.

This is such a load of hooey it's hard to even know where to begin. Outside of CA, the state has a reputation as being liberal and progressive. Within the state, the liberal areas are largely confined to the Bay Area, Los Angeles with some penetration to the Inland Empire, and in some of the northern counties around Mendocino.

Other than that the state is more conservative than liberal. That includes conservative urban areas such as Orange County and San Diego, as well as the Central Valley (Fresno, Bakersfield, etc). Sacramento is probably a toss-up.

In Orange County alone:

According to the Orange County Registrar of Voters, as of June 25, 2009, Orange County had 1,599,614 registered voters. Of these, 43.7% (698,893) are registered Republicans, and 32.0% (512,069) are registered Democrats. An additional 20.2% (324,090) declined to state a political party.[13]

There are more registered Republicans in only Orange County than there are in some entire Red states! (Think Wyoming or Nebraska).

I realize that Nobody was kidding a bit in his statements (yes I see the emot).

But there is a serious issue here, namely the largest state in the union (by population and economy) has a chronic ongoing failure to provide decent government. I for one do not blame either party solely. I think both parties have gerrymandered their districts to ensure that all the seats are "safe" and very few need to be actively contested. This leads to nepotism and bad government. The legislate-by-ballot style of government in CA is absolutely ridiculous. If you've never see an CA ballot, you should take a look at one. Inevitably voters get to decide on at a dozen or more state-wide or county-wide proposals, in many cases with serious lifelong consequences (think Prop 13, Prop 8 as nationally famous examples). This is is democracy-by-mob, not democracy by representatives who listen, reason, propose legislation, hammer it out in committee, bring it to the floor for votes. It would be a silly joke if it was an insignificant piss-poor nobody state (say, Rhode Island). But CA actually matters. Not just to Californians, but to everyone in the US.

No I'm dead serious. My opinion is no more a load of ####### than most of your rambling posts.

Sometimes serious actions are required for serious problems. Not just feel good stuff.

Of course, this is not a 5000 word post which you might classify as hooey. Mr elitist

[alienlovechild 75]

This is such a load of hooey it's hard to even know where to begin. Outside of CA, the state has a reputation as being liberal and progressive. Within the state, the liberal areas are largely confined to the Bay Area, Los Angeles with some penetration to the Inland Empire, and in some of the northern counties around Mendocino.

The hooey is coming from your fingertips as you type. California is a liberal state and you can find pockets anywhere that disputes the general political outlook of a state.

"The California State Legislature currently has a Democratic majority, with the Senate consisting of 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans; and the Assembly having 49 Democrats, 29 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 1 vacancy. Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature

The Democrats have been running the state since 1970 except for two years. Blaming the GOP only works on the gullible but then again we are talking about Californians who bought overpriced homes for years.

[scandal 951]

This is such a load of hooey it's hard to even know where to begin. Outside of CA, the state has a reputation as being liberal and progressive. Within the state, the liberal areas are largely confined to the Bay Area, Los Angeles with some penetration to the Inland Empire, and in some of the northern counties around Mendocino.

The hooey is coming from your fingertips as you type. California is a liberal state and you can find pockets anywhere that disputes the general political outlook of a state.

"The California State Legislature currently has a Democratic majority, with the Senate consisting of 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans; and the Assembly having 49 Democrats, 29 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 1 vacancy. Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature

The Democrats have been running the state since 1970 except for two years. Blaming the GOP only works on the gullible but then again we are talking about Californians who bought overpriced homes for years.

Well Dave, I ate humble pie on another discussion with you today (Nixon during the Yom Kippur war), but not on this one.

I think the problem is you've misunderstood my previous post. Let me try to clarify.

I am not "Blaming the GOP". Others on this thread (scroll to the top, read down...) may blame Republicans for CA's mess, but not me. Please don't assume that everyone here has the same views. I've tried to make mine clear. I think the biggest problem in CA is dysfunctional governance. It's not a party-line problem, it's a bipartisan mess and both parties are equally to blame. It has to do with excessive use of legislation-by-ballot-initiative, and by an extreme case of gerrymandered districts. Both of these problems exist throughout the US, but they are particularly extreme in CA. To a large extent it's the fault of Californians themselves. They have the government they deserve. They established their own constitution and they elect their own representatives.

You are correct that California has had Democratic majorities. You could go even further - it's US senators have been solidly Democratic for two decades (Feinstein/Boxer), and its' delegation to the 111th House is 34 Dem/ 19 GOP. Note that it's also had Republican governors for more years than Democrats over the past few decades (George Deukmejian, Pete Wilson, Arnold Schwarzenegger all GOP, vs. Gray Davis D).

Nonetheless, none of this changes my point, in fact it strengthens it!

Let's agree that CA is a predominantly liberal-leaning state. Fine.

But it has a substantial conservative minority. So substantial that there are more registered Republicans in ONE COUNTY (Orange) than in some entire conservative US states!

The flippant comment I earlier reacted to was along the lines of 'oh, wouldn't it be fun to disenfranchise all those conservatives, and have a 100% Democratic legislature", as though somehow this is going to teach someone a lesson. I wonder how many Orange county Republicans are going to like that idea? For that matter, maybe we should suggest that you, as a conservative, voluntarily cede all power to the other side to "prove a point". Are you willing to vote Democratic in the next election so whimsically? I doubt it. And more's the point - nor should you.

I think it's patently obvious that a real democracy needs the thrashing out of ideas in the public sphere between debating ideologies.

I remember about 15 years ago in the Canadian province of New Brunswick, they held a provincial election and 100% of the seats went to the Liberal party. 100%. There was not a single Conservative or NDP member elected. There was no Opposition in parliament. As a Liberal, I thought that was a really bad outcome to an election.

As a non-CA resident (but a former one), I look at Schwarzenegger and admire him. He's a nominal conservative, stands up for ideology on principle as required, but he's tried to be practical and bipartisan and bring the ninnies (both parties!) in Sacramento together to solve the deep systemic problems of the state. Unlike career politicians, he already had the fame and money and glory before entering politics. He's there because he earnestly wanted to improve matters. The problem is Sacramento has become so dysfunctional that no one and nothing seems able to fix things. If it was a minor state, it would be an internal problem of no concern to the rest of us. But if CA craters big time, it is a national issue.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Weird. I originally thought the Republican hate the poor.