ready to get married but not in the US

[Town'n'Country 0]

Hello to all of you caring people at the VJ forum. I have been reading this forum for a year now and just joined so that I can get some specific help. My fiance and I have a complicated case so I realize that we need a lawyer. But when to enlist a lawyer. Can I do some of the steps myself and then enlist a lawyer to help with the problems?

Let me start explaining:

I am American, living in USA. He is Trinidadian citizen living in Trinidad. I am 50, he is 40. He has a conviction in T & T that has just been removed after a three year probabion period. He also has a case that was dismissed. That dismissal is 5 years in the past as of march 2010. The conviction and subsequent probation will be 5 years in the past as of Feb. 2011. The problem was cannabis, less than 3.5 grams for both arrests. I realize after reading posts here on the forum as well as the state dept website that his court extract that says "no convictions" is only valid in terms of his life in Trinidad. The record is still there for the State dept to find and examine. He didn't want to believe this was true but reality is hard to swallow sometimes

He has applied for a u.s visitor visa 3 times in the last 4 years. The first time they laughed in his face. The second time they said he had no binding ties. The third time they said he showed binding ties but that they still didn't trust him not to get married to me while here on the visitor visa, so they refused again. They told him that he should be using a fiance visa application because of his steady girlfriend in the US. They have been so terrible at the consulate in Port of Spain that we are afraid that they will turn our fiance application down anyway, because of the complications described above.

So, we are still together and wanting to get married now, wherever we can. We thought about going for the fiance visa to get married in the US, but with our troublesome complications I thought why go through the process basically twice, with all the expense of the lawyer each time, to do a fiancee visa, and then have to do the whole marriage procedure after that with ensuing costs and lawyer fees. Why not just get married first and then go for it. This is very scary I must tell you because further complications are that right now I am not allowed in Trinidad! That is a long story involving my own court case in T & T, which I may get into in a later post.

We are a couple without a country! I can barely fathom the situation . . .

Here is my second question. Is it okay to get married somewhere other than in one of our home countries, or should we wait until I am allowed back in Trini? That may not happen for a while, if at all. We could get married in January 2010 in Tortola, where he has lots of family member residing, or in Dominica, where we don't know anybody. ONce we get involved in the marriage visa application, will that look suspicious, like it's not a real marriage? We have plenty of proof that we are a real, in love couple. Or is this the least of our worries?

THis man is the love of my life and i can't believe that these problems might keep us apart forever. We are broke from meeting in third places to see each other. Two airline tickets each time and paying for a guesthouse or camp site, etc.

Any answers, advice or similar situations I would love to hear. Thank you very much.

~Julia

[Otto 83]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

[Town'n'Country 0]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

Thanks for reading my post and replying Otto and Karin. Sorry for my confused reference to the "marriage procedure". I meant K3/CR-1 application. I was under the belief that after my fiance gets here on a K1 visa, please God, and we marry in the US, and he goes back to T & T 3 months later, that I would have to start the K3 or CR-1 process at that point. Now that I am studying the guides, I see that once you arrive via K1, K3, or CR-1, you then have to start a process known as Adjustment of Status (AOS).

Why do you think the CR-1 is better than the K3 for us? We have only seen each other for 3 weeks total in the last year. I thought the K3 was made to reunite people faster?

New question: Once you have successfully arrived via K1, K3, or CR-1, have you gotten through the worst of it? Considering our complications, will we have a better chance being married first before getting into the process?

And: My guy needs freedom to travel to and from Trinidad since he runs a hostel there!

next question: How do I find a good lawyer who knows how to deal with our circumstances? I received a price of $3500.00 a year ago from someone who said we had a 95% chance of success. And better odds of success the farther away we get from the court cases. I don't know that she has any special experience with our situation . . .

Thanks in advance for your help!

~Julia

[childress_london 3]

Use the K1 to bring him to the US as a fiance. You then have 90 days after his arrival to get married. He stays here if you get married and then you apply for adjustment of status (the green card). If you get married first, you apply for the K3 or the CR1 and when he gets here, you apply for adjustment of status. If you apply for the K3, he must interview in the country where you got married. K1/CR1 he will have to interview in his home country. K3's and CR1's have been approved at the same time lately. It's not any quicker, and can be more costly. I suggest filing the K3 only if you want him to interview in the country where you got married, if it's different from his home country. Otherwise, it provides no benefit over the CR1.

[childress_london 3]

You might want to check the rules on what would cause a denial for him. The cannabis convictions could keep him from immigrating to the U.S. So, you don't want to get married and then find out he can't come here after all!

[Town'n'Country 0]

You might want to check the rules on what would cause a denial for him. The cannabis convictions could keep him from immigrating to the U.S. So, you don't want to get married and then find out he can't come here after all!

You know I have looked into the rules and it is a grounds for denial which can be overcome depending on the details.

Yes, maybe the K1 is the way to go at this point. This is all food for thought.

I can't imagine breaking up because some stupid policy prevents him from coming to the US. Wow. Sigh . . .

Also, thanks for the details about K3 versus Cr-1 in terms of location of interview.

[pushbrk 13,044]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

Thanks for reading my post and replying Otto and Karin. Sorry for my confused reference to the "marriage procedure". I meant K3/CR-1 application. I was under the belief that after my fiance gets here on a K1 visa, please God, and we marry in the US, and he goes back to T & T 3 months later, that I would have to start the K3 or CR-1 process at that point. Now that I am studying the guides, I see that once you arrive via K1, K3, or CR-1, you then have to start a process known as Adjustment of Status (AOS).

Why do you think the CR-1 is better than the K3 for us? We have only seen each other for 3 weeks total in the last year. I thought the K3 was made to reunite people faster?

New question: Once you have successfully arrived via K1, K3, or CR-1, have you gotten through the worst of it? Considering our complications, will we have a better chance being married first before getting into the process?

And: My guy needs freedom to travel to and from Trinidad since he runs a hostel there!

next question: How do I find a good lawyer who knows how to deal with our circumstances? I received a price of $3500.00 a year ago from someone who said we had a 95% chance of success. And better odds of success the farther away we get from the court cases. I don't know that she has any special experience with our situation . . .

Thanks in advance for your help!

~Julia

You have been misinformed and also have not studied the guides here. After marriage on the K1 visa, he stays to adjust status to permanent resident. (green card) There's no need to leave the USA and start a new visa process.

Your problem is getting approved for any family based visa with a record of crimes of moral turpitude. Regardless of the visa process there is likely to be an ineligibility and ban requiring a successful waiver process. Consult an attorney on your case.

K3 is virtually obsolete but does require the visa be interviewed for in the country the marriage took place. That can be pretty inconvenient when neither of you lives there.

[L179 1]

you can get married anywhere in this world you wish!

[pushbrk 13,044]

you can get married anywhere in this world you wish!

Oh, if were so simple. Many countries require that at least one party be at least a legal resident. Others, of course require a visa and require more than a "wish" before they'll issue one.

Neither USCIS or DOS cares where you got married, as long as it was legal and you follow the correct procedures, including (for K3 visas only) returning to the country of marriage for an interview.

[L179 1]

you can get married anywhere in this world you wish!

Oh, if were so simple. Many countries require that at least one party be at least a legal resident. Others, of course require a visa and require more than a "wish" before they'll issue one.

Neither USCIS or DOS cares where you got married, as long as it was legal and you follow the correct procedures, including (for K3 visas only) returning to the country of marriage for an interview.

Well, I am sure that some countries might have restrictions, but I was more or less talking along the lines of immigration requirements...that USCIS does not care and you can get married where you wish, or are able to....

[NickD 203]

I preferred to get married by a federal judge to provide the USCIS with a very legal looking document, if religious, can get that done too with some kind of blessing. Common law marriages are recognized in my state, but far more effective in a divorce court, one only need to claim they lived together for a specified amount of time, but the USCIS wants to see a piece of paper, so wouldn't try that. If married in a foreign country, in a foreign language, your certificate would have to be translated by a certified translator, that can be more expensive then just getting married here.

[Town'n'Country 0]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

Thanks for reading my post and replying Otto and Karin. Sorry for my confused reference to the "marriage procedure". I meant K3/CR-1 application. I was under the belief that after my fiance gets here on a K1 visa, please God, and we marry in the US, and he goes back to T & T 3 months later, that I would have to start the K3 or CR-1 process at that point. Now that I am studying the guides, I see that once you arrive via K1, K3, or CR-1, you then have to start a process known as Adjustment of Status (AOS).

Why do you think the CR-1 is better than the K3 for us? We have only seen each other for 3 weeks total in the last year. I thought the K3 was made to reunite people faster?

New question: Once you have successfully arrived via K1, K3, or CR-1, have you gotten through the worst of it? Considering our complications, will we have a better chance being married first before getting into the process?

And: My guy needs freedom to travel to and from Trinidad since he runs a hostel there!

next question: How do I find a good lawyer who knows how to deal with our circumstances? I received a price of $3500.00 a year ago from someone who said we had a 95% chance of success. And better odds of success the farther away we get from the court cases. I don't know that she has any special experience with our situation . . .

Thanks in advance for your help!

~Julia

You have been misinformed and also have not studied the guides here. After marriage on the K1 visa, he stays to adjust status to permanent resident. (green card) There's no need to leave the USA and start a new visa process.

Your problem is getting approved for any family based visa with a record of crimes of moral turpitude. Regardless of the visa process there is likely to be an ineligibility and ban requiring a successful waiver process. Consult an attorney on your case.

K3 is virtually obsolete but does require the visa be interviewed for in the country the marriage took place. That can be pretty inconvenient when neither of you lives there.

Probably you are right I haven't studied the guides thoroughly. I get it somewhat now, thankyou. The 3 months is just the amount of time to decide whether you will actually marry. If you don't marry the ex-fiance has to leave within 3 months. Got it.

Drug convictions are not considered crimes of moral turpitude, but are looked at in the same way, as an almost automatic basis for denial. The "immigration" lawyer I consulted last year made it sound like she could 95% positively get us through without having to resort to a waiver application, which she said was nearly impossible to get approved.

I need to find a lawyer who really knows what is going on, preferably someone in the Boston area.

[pushbrk 13,044]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

Thanks for reading my post and replying Otto and Karin. Sorry for my confused reference to the "marriage procedure". I meant K3/CR-1 application. I was under the belief that after my fiance gets here on a K1 visa, please God, and we marry in the US, and he goes back to T & T 3 months later, that I would have to start the K3 or CR-1 process at that point. Now that I am studying the guides, I see that once you arrive via K1, K3, or CR-1, you then have to start a process known as Adjustment of Status (AOS).

Why do you think the CR-1 is better than the K3 for us? We have only seen each other for 3 weeks total in the last year. I thought the K3 was made to reunite people faster?

New question: Once you have successfully arrived via K1, K3, or CR-1, have you gotten through the worst of it? Considering our complications, will we have a better chance being married first before getting into the process?

And: My guy needs freedom to travel to and from Trinidad since he runs a hostel there!

next question: How do I find a good lawyer who knows how to deal with our circumstances? I received a price of $3500.00 a year ago from someone who said we had a 95% chance of success. And better odds of success the farther away we get from the court cases. I don't know that she has any special experience with our situation . . .

Thanks in advance for your help!

~Julia

You have been misinformed and also have not studied the guides here. After marriage on the K1 visa, he stays to adjust status to permanent resident. (green card) There's no need to leave the USA and start a new visa process.

Your problem is getting approved for any family based visa with a record of crimes of moral turpitude. Regardless of the visa process there is likely to be an ineligibility and ban requiring a successful waiver process. Consult an attorney on your case.

K3 is virtually obsolete but does require the visa be interviewed for in the country the marriage took place. That can be pretty inconvenient when neither of you lives there.

Probably you are right I haven't studied the guides thoroughly. I get it somewhat now, thankyou. The 3 months is just the amount of time to decide whether you will actually marry. If you don't marry the ex-fiance has to leave within 3 months. Got it.

Drug convictions are not considered crimes of moral turpitude, but are looked at in the same way, as an almost automatic basis for denial. The "immigration" lawyer I consulted last year made it sound like she could 95% positively get us through without having to resort to a waiver application, which she said was nearly impossible to get approved.

I need to find a lawyer who really knows what is going on, preferably someone in the Boston area.

No, the three months is not the amount of time to decide whether to actually marry. Letters of intent to marry are required from both of you. Although you can always change your mind a fiance(e) visa is for a fiance(e), which by definition means the decision to get married is already made. The three months is the time in which you either marry or leave. They give you three months so you can reasonably plan a simple wedding after arrival. It's not a "see how it goes" visa. It's a fiance(e) visa.

[Town'n'Country 0]

First - you can get married wherever you like - no rule says it must take place in either person's home country.

Secondly - from the sounds of it - the K-1 might not be as bad as you think - it is different from a visitor's visa in that they know he will intend to remain in the US (all the reasons you stated for him being denied a visitor's visa indicate this 'we don't believe you would return' denial reason would be mute). A 'better' choice (if you decide to marry first) would be a CR-1 spousal visa.

Lastly - am not certain what you mean by lawyers costs for the 'marriage procedure.'

Thanks for reading my post and replying Otto and Karin. Sorry for my confused reference to the "marriage procedure". I meant K3/CR-1 application. I was under the belief that after my fiance gets here on a K1 visa, please God, and we marry in the US, and he goes back to T & T 3 months later, that I would have to start the K3 or CR-1 process at that point. Now that I am studying the guides, I see that once you arrive via K1, K3, or CR-1, you then have to start a process known as Adjustment of Status (AOS).

Why do you think the CR-1 is better than the K3 for us? We have only seen each other for 3 weeks total in the last year. I thought the K3 was made to reunite people faster?

New question: Once you have successfully arrived via K1, K3, or CR-1, have you gotten through the worst of it? Considering our complications, will we have a better chance being married first before getting into the process?

And: My guy needs freedom to travel to and from Trinidad since he runs a hostel there!

next question: How do I find a good lawyer who knows how to deal with our circumstances? I received a price of $3500.00 a year ago from someone who said we had a 95% chance of success. And better odds of success the farther away we get from the court cases. I don't know that she has any special experience with our situation . . .

Thanks in advance for your help!

~Julia

You have been misinformed and also have not studied the guides here. After marriage on the K1 visa, he stays to adjust status to permanent resident. (green card) There's no need to leave the USA and start a new visa process.

Your problem is getting approved for any family based visa with a record of crimes of moral turpitude. Regardless of the visa process there is likely to be an ineligibility and ban requiring a successful waiver process. Consult an attorney on your case.

K3 is virtually obsolete but does require the visa be interviewed for in the country the marriage took place. That can be pretty inconvenient when neither of you lives there.

Probably you are right I haven't studied the guides thoroughly. I get it somewhat now, thankyou. The 3 months is just the amount of time to decide whether you will actually marry. If you don't marry the ex-fiance has to leave within 3 months. Got it.

Drug convictions are not considered crimes of moral turpitude, but are looked at in the same way, as an almost automatic basis for denial. The "immigration" lawyer I consulted last year made it sound like she could 95% positively get us through without having to resort to a waiver application, which she said was nearly impossible to get approved.

I need to find a lawyer who really knows what is going on, preferably someone in the Boston area.

No, the three months is not the amount of time to decide whether to actually marry. Letters of intent to marry are required from both of you. Although you can always change your mind a fiance(e) visa is for a fiance(e), which by definition means the decision to get married is already made. The three months is the time in which you either marry or leave. They give you three months so you can reasonably plan a simple wedding after arrival. It's not a "see how it goes" visa. It's a fiance(e) visa.

Well, thanks for the "straight talk" pushbrk. ANd to everybody else. All your answers provided me lots of info, helping to clarify my thinking. The emotional distress that all of this causes doesn't lead to clear thinking sometimes.

My future posts will be in the CR-1 and waivers section of the forum since that seems to be the direction for us to go. I'll do some more searches of the forums. THere are indeed a lot of threads to look through here!

I still have a quandary about how to find some real legal advice, not just a lawyer telling me what I want to hear to get a chunk of change from me. It must be devastating to spend thousands on a lawyer only to get denied anyway.

Thanks again,

Julia

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Really good advise here.

I'm just wondering, if the minor drug conviction is erased from the record in March 2010, wouldn't it make sense to wait until that has happened and then apply for a visa, hereby eliminating the danger that the conviction somehow makes it into the files of the USCIS before it is erased?

To speed things up, you could get married on Tortola (part of BVI, right?) and thus get the whole process in motion by being married for 2 years by the time you appy for AOS. One less traumatic experience to go through.

However, one thing I would do if I were you: pay an experienced immagration attorney 1 hour (about 300 bucks) to explore the issue with the drug conviction, BEFORE you get married.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Just Bob