Why We Need a Public Health-Care Plan

[scandal 951]

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah, those tartan sheep again.

[Ban Hammer 13,658]

Why do people hate sheep?

because of what spooky does to them.

[scandal 951]

I would just like to note... I approve of this thread.

It had it all.

Serious policy debate about a topical matter.

A troll just looking to insult everyone about anything and everything.

Useless one-liner tossaways from the predictable bunch that can do no better.

Friendly banter.

Sheep pix.

And finally, a chance to attack spooky in absentia.

Yup, a job well done, all.

[rebeccajo 14]

They blindly follow the Messiah.

You never did answer my question, buddy.

I guess it's easier for you to sling around one-liners than it is to answer a probing question.

Edited June 25, 2009 by rebeccajo

[rooster 1]

They blindly follow the Messiah.

You never did answer my question, buddy.

I guess it's easier for you to sling around one-liners than it is to answer a probing question.

[scandal 951]

They blindly follow the Messiah.

You never did answer my question, buddy.

I guess it's easier for you to sling around one-liners than it is to answer a probing question.

RJ, please tell me you're not surprised? That's how they do....

[Ban Hammer 13,658]

free health care listed here

link

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm uninsured and I choose to be uninsured, but I may still be counted among those who "need" public health care. I seriously resent being used like that.

[Peikko 1,575]

Because prudent rich people hate to waste their money on silly insurance when 'pay and go' is the way to go. Oh, I laugh at this barefaced codswallop.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Because prudent rich people hate to waste their money on silly insurance when 'pay and go' is the way to go. Oh, I laugh at this barefaced codswallop.

?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free."

P.J. O'Rourke

I lived in Canada, healthcare was OK, not great. Not bad. I lived in Quebec and reprtedly some other Provinces are better, some worse. I know Quebec has a serious money problem with aying doctors and many in the Montreal area also have offices in Ottowa so they can collect from both Quebec and Ontario. I now live 6 miles from Canada and our local hospital parking lot is full of cars from Quebec, and they aren't just visiting. Fact is, the US has been Canada's "pressure relief valve" for years. Since about 90% of Canadians live within an easy drive to the US and have free travel to and from, border area hospitals are full of Canadians who can pay the price of admission or are sent here by the naitonal health system after a long enough wait. Canada has 1/10th the population of the US and a very responsive government. I was always amazed at how wuickly the House of Commons could act, and if Canadian politicians do not deliver...they can yank them right out! They also do not waste most of their time compaigning for the next election. They are limited to 30 days for the election cycle and Parliment is recessed during that time.

This may all seem irrelevent, but it is not. I doubt US politicians would be willing to operate in the same conditions. You simply cannot say "Well, look at Canada's system" without looking at the whole picture.

Canada also has another great "free" benefit we do not. And that is the US miltary. All day long F-16s from the Vermont Air Guard are flying around here, were our good neighbors to the north ever threatened, the F-16s would be over Montreal or Ottowa in seconds, literally, seconds. Canada has a relatively small military and can do so because of a very friendly big military on it's border a very short distance from most of the Canadian population. This is just a fact. It is in no way an insult to my good friends in Canada, having a friendly neighbor on more than 5000 miles of border is certainly worth whatever protection we provide, and I do not forget that it was Canadian military soldiers that rescued downed US pilots in the Balkans, nor the fact that nearly the entire Canadian military would be considered "special forces" in level of training. But the fact is they enjoy the benefits and dividends of a small miltary and strong neighbor, and can use that money for medical care. The medical system of Canada does not operate in a vacuum and cannot be judged that way.

I also lived in Ukraine and healthcare there can only be described as WW1 quality, literally. They could film "The English Patient" there without changing a thing. I was advised "Don't get sick!" There was a large sign in the emergency room saying "If you are vomiting and have diarreah, you probably drank water without boiling. Go Home! Always boil water before drinking" That was the Ukrainian emergency room treatment for projectile vomiting. After going to a haspital there you feel like you need immunizations! My mother in law had gall bladder surgery two years ago. They gutted her like fish. Not the neat little 2 stitch incision they make here. My wife was appalled when she went to hospital and found her dressings were not being changed...they had no dressings to offer! She went to the Aptika and bought her own! My wife changed the dressing herself and left the other supplies with the hospital in her "room" (actually a ward with many patients). Next day, all the dressings, betadine, etc was GONE! The nurses had SOLD them to other patients that would pay for it! Pocketed the money of course, because they are paid $200 per month and are 3 months or more behind in pay. So she had to buy more and bring them with her and take them away! We pay a doctor in the area a bribe every year now, since Alla is not there anymore, to answer calls for her mother and see her mother if she needs it. You do not get to see a doctor without paying a bribe or gift.

A month after arriving here, Alla had a kidney stone and I took her to the emergency room, she was diagnosed, treated and released in 3 hours. Her first medical experience here and she was pleased with the facility and treatment but almost fainted when she saw the bill! Fortunately our medical insurance paid 100%. I agree we need something here, a 3 hour visit with an x-ray and some pain medication shouldn't cost more than $2,000. But I do not think government is the answer. I also do not think the United States needs to copy what other countries do...why? I do not purport to have the answers, but I know that we are a resoureful country will lots of very brilliant people who can find a better solution than the government.

The problem with comparing other countries is that our government was never designed to do anything and is terribly inefficient. When we have socialist healthcare, the Canadian system will be further strained and they will have serious issues and wiull no longer be the "model" healthcare system that everyone points to.

Imagine if our health care is run like USCIS!!!!!!!!!

[rebeccajo 14]

Interesting information about competition in the insurance marketplace.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/200...tition_map.html

"Today many Americans have few choices when it comes to health insurance. This is because many insurance markets are dominated by only a handful of firms, even though there are over 1,000 private health insurance carriers in the United States. This concentration limits employers’ and families’ health insurance options as well as the care they receive.

In many states small insurers compete against one another in the individual market to insure only low-risk, healthy individuals. They refuse to insure Americans with pre-existing conditions such as high blood pressure, asthma, cancer, or diabetes and those who have ever taken certain prescription drugs—and they create barriers to needed care for those who are insured.

The map shows that in many states insurance markets are dominated by only one or two insurance carriers. In at least 21 states, one carrier controls more than half the market. More than half of the market is controlled by two carriers in at least 39 states. In 2007, a survey conducted by the American Medical Association found that in more than 95 percent of insurance markets, a single commercial carrier controlled at least 30 percent of the insurance market.

The result of this market concentration is that health insurance interests come before Americans’ health care needs. Where markets are dominated by only a few firms, health insurers revenues are growing faster than health inflation as insurers maximize rates they charge employers and families and create barriers to care. Employers are then unable to afford meaningful health insurance options for their employees or, in the case of small businesses, are unable to offer their employees insurance at all, while most Americans seeking health insurance in the individual market never purchase coverage."

[dalegg 143]

Imagine if our health care is run like USCIS!!!!!!!!!

That right there is my whole problem with the idea. Conceptually the idea of a single payer system does not strike me as completely un-doable, but the thing about the Government is once you bring a new pig into the barn, it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and no matter how much you feed it it doesn't ever seem satisfied.

Even without the profit incentive, I cannot believe that insuring everyone in this country is going to be cheaper than insuring only those who can pay. On this one- I'm with you part of the way too- I am worried about my mother and my kids who may not be offered insurance like me as part of their job benefits. If I thought that I could trade in my existing policy that just covers me and my immediate family for one that includes my extended relatives and friends for no more than $200 a month more and that would be that, I'll tell you what- I might be for it. I think it is a real possibility that someone in my care could come across some very serious medical bills in my lifetime that I may have to foot out when I am supposed to be retired and living the good life.

But- I just don't think so. I see a public healthcare system in the US growing completely out of control- just like social security and welfare and everything California ever came up with. I see more people needing healthcare than people paying for it. People need to stop saying "Canada does it so we can too" also, because we are not Canada. We have way more people and a lot of....other problems. I think once a country gets to a certain size, public healthcare, like social security, is not realistic. But if it happens, I'll take it. What choice do I have. Can't be much worse than my existing HMO although there will obviously be longer waits. I'll just make sure my children are sterilized for the sake of my non-existent grandchildren who will probably be working for the Chinese paying 90% of their paychecks off to pay off the national debt.

[Niels Bohr 72]

In many states small insurers compete against one another in the individual market to insure only low-risk, healthy individuals. They refuse to insure Americans with pre-existing conditions such as high blood pressure, asthma, cancer, or diabetes and those who have ever taken certain prescription drugs—and they create barriers to needed care for those who are insured.

The map shows that in many states insurance markets are dominated by only one or two insurance carriers. In at least 21 states, one carrier controls more than half the market. More than half of the market is controlled by two carriers in at least 39 states. In 2007, a survey conducted by the American Medical Association found that in more than 95 percent of insurance markets, a single commercial carrier controlled at least 30 percent of the insurance market.

That is an important reason to have reform. If that problem is fixed, who needs a government insured plan. Heck, if the republicans favor these two than there's no need for a government insured plan.