My Oath Ceremony rant

[spatial 0]

Congrats to the OP with regards to the ceremony.

From one Arizona resident to another, I can understand why you want to leave here during the July 4th weekend. However, I'm also glad you've decided to attend the ceremony. Btw, where will they be holding it this year?

While I'm not sure just how long you've been living in the US (didn't check out your timeline), you should probably keep in mind that the average worker here doesn't have nearly the amount of vacation time as one from Germany. Just one of the side effects of living in the most productive country on the planet. I hope you're prepared for this.

[AlanM 1]

So I received my Oath Ceremony letter today in the mail.

"You are hereby notified to appear for a Naturalization Oath Ceremony on: Saturday, July 4 2009"

Well whoopty-doo. Apparently the USCIS doesn't recognize the 4th (aka America's birthday) as a holiday where people may have plans.... like..... let's say.... go out of town? It's not really a big deal as I will just have them reschedule me but I'm anxious to get this over with. Like really, who schedules anything like this on the 4th?

Maybe I'm over-reacting......................

Maybe NOT!!!

Have a feeling it will be a few months before they re-schedule me. ARgghhhhh how annoying.

< / end rant>

I fully agree with you. Yes, it's Independence Day, but still, people have lives, plans, even non-refundable airplane tickets.

Just because we're about to become US citizens, it doesn't mean we need to join the herd of sheep. Last I checked, and learned from the test materials, the government is there for you, not the other way around.

Deutschland FTW!

He has the option of rescheduling. USCIS did nothing wrong here. Just reschedule.

[RomanVT 0]

Congrats to the OP with regards to the ceremony.

From one Arizona resident to another, I can understand why you want to leave here during the July 4th weekend. However, I'm also glad you've decided to attend the ceremony. Btw, where will they be holding it this year?

While I'm not sure just how long you've been living in the US (didn't check out your timeline), you should probably keep in mind that the average worker here doesn't have nearly the amount of vacation time as one from Germany. Just one of the side effects of living in the most productive country on the planet. I hope you're prepared for this.

Hi Spatial. I've been living in the US for 21 years now... moved here July 4, 1988. As for the Oath... it is being held at South Mountain Community College in Phoenix.

[queendlee 1]

Exactly. Hence the creation of a LPR status. Becoming a citizen for the sake of it is just moronic and unethical. I wouldn't want anyone coming to Australia and becoming a citizen for the sake of it. If anyone felt that way, I along with the rest of the country would gladly tell them to #### off.

For the OP, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in terms of immigration. Fourth of July would be the ideal day to become a citizen hence the concept of the fourth of July.

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

Yeah we are a free country and people can do as they please but that still does not mean it's right for anyone to become a citizen for the sake of it. That is actually a question Iwould be asking if I was designing the naturalization questionnaire.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work. For those of us who have married to a USC and gained residency then applied for citizenship had to do a ton of paperwork that normal USC couples would probably never have plus all the stress and worry about being taken for your loved ones at anytime until its permanent. I did not enter via a marriage visa, so I can't speak about that, but aren't we all legal immigrants applying for citizenship in some form on this forum... why the separation?

I agree people should have a reason to be a USC, I have family who remained LPR because that was good enough for them, they never travel and unfortunately dont chose to vote (just like many USC), but its a chose they have chosen which makes citizenship not necessary.

[NickD 203]

We questioned why we were either sent to Milwaukee or to St. Paul, could be the flip of the coin, but commented to my wife, if they send us to LA, we would be there, just to get it over with.

[Nik+Heather 121]

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work.

...

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

[NickD 203]

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work.

...

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

Believe it was back in 1927 where the head guy of immigration and approved by congress thought a person coming to America to marry a USC would make a better citizen than just an immigrant coming here. It was then it was decided for that three and five year thing depending on whether you married a USC or not.

Kind of feel the concept of being a better citizen if married through one after getting the details from my wife after her interview. In a 42 minute interview, about one minute of it was spent on the civics and English test, the other 41 minutes she spent trying to prove to her IO that she was married to me.

[queendlee 1]

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work.

...

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

The question I am asking is why is it any lesser of a motivation for legitimate people applying for citizenship, not in relation to natural born citizens. I think people stay here with their familys applies to not just couples but others non-marriage based applications as well as the fact that even marriage based motivations are sometimes driven by love of the country also. Otherwise, I would not apply, my Jamaican citizenship is not a bad thing, but I chose to give it up because of the rights i wish to have a as citizens primarily voting rights, I beleive that living here I would like my voice heard and I love that about the US that I can take part in something so great. I love my husband, but if I did not love the US, I would ask my husband to move back home with me instead. I am giving up a lot being here, and I chose to do that because I love the US, not just for the life I have here (life in Jamaica is pretty nice too dont get me wrong), but the freedoms provided to us, our government or democratics process etc is great. My question was just pointed at the statement made in regards to "A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care.". How is marriage meaning I did not earn it! I had to do a lot of work as well and join the back of the line as well, learn my civics, not only for the questions but since my husband is a history buff I ask a lot about stuff that are non-test related. I now find myself reading and watching more stuff about the US to know more which I find fasinating. my journey to get to this point is almost 5 years (not including the time I was on a non-spousal immigrant visa). So I think I earned it just as much as someone who came here via their parents or via a job. I agree some people's motivations are different and some don't really dont care, but I CARE. My motivations for citizenship has little to do w/ my marriage as much as my love for the US and the opportunities for voting, government jobs, etc. I guess I did not come here on a spousal visa, so my motivation may be different. I was here long before I met my husband, our marriage was coincidental to the process maybe, but I think a broad sweeping statement like that is kinda harsh. It makes it seem like the motivations for each of us is lesser than some.

[queendlee 1]

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work.

...

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

Believe it was back in 1927 where the head guy of immigration and approved by congress thought a person coming to America to marry a USC would make a better citizen than just an immigrant coming here. It was then it was decided for that three and five year thing depending on whether you married a USC or not.

Kind of feel the concept of being a better citizen if married through one after getting the details from my wife after her interview. In a 42 minute interview, about one minute of it was spent on the civics and English test, the other 41 minutes she spent trying to prove to her IO that she was married to me.

I am not sure about being a better citizen, but as a person applying based on their marriage, it does not make it any easier and actually you have to prove more in my opinion. I know very few of my USC friends who could prove what i need to in order to live here w/ my husband or to apply for citizenship. I think the process has through made me more intrigued by the process and learning much more about the US than any of my friends themselves seem to know. I am not only learning the answers to the questions, but some of the inaccuracies with the USCIS's answers and some of the additional answers. I am learning more about our government that I never was able to figure out before and honestly I know more about the US than my own native country now and I have live here 1/2 as long. Sad but true!

[Minya's wife 25]

The attitude makes sense though. A lot of people who entered the US by means of a marriage visa did not earn it so they don't care. Whereas, someone who has had to work their azz off to enter the country and waited five years will surely appreciate it more than it merely being a matter of convenience.

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work.

...

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

I absolutely agree with you, but I think that for those that are living here because they happen to be in love w/ a US citizen and are not yet, or do not love the US, they should not be pursuing citizenship...not if it is considered 'just paperwork' and definitely not for the sake of convenience. For those, the best option is to remain an permanent resident. You should have to want US citizenship!

[queendlee 1]

I absolutely agree with you, but I think that for those that are living here because they happen to be in love w/ a US citizen and are not yet, or do not love the US, they should not be pursuing citizenship...not if it is considered 'just paperwork' and definitely not for the sake of convenience. For those, the best option is to remain an permanent resident. You should have to want US citizenship!

you perfectly summed up my logic! I chose citizenship b/c I want it, not because I can!

I have a friend who her mother came here and illegally over-stayed getting married only to get PR, now is applying for citizenship not because she wants it but because her kids are on student visas which can only last so long before they may need to return to their home country. So she wants to apply for them to stay here also. Thats one motivation, not the best but its family based and not marriage based. Then I have my father-in-law who has lived here 30 years and does not plan to apply, he has no motivation to. He does not travel, he does not want to vote and he is happy with his job. PR affords him all that and I think he loves this country (he would never live anywhere else) and he know more about this country than anyone I know. I also have a friend who has been a PR almost all her life, but until a couple years ago had no motivation to become a USC (I doubt that motivation was for love of the US either). Then there are people who do it so they won't be asked to leave.... different motivations with some better than others maybe, but generalizing ALL marriage based applications bothers me.

[Staashi 371]

My hubby had his oath ceremony on July 4th last year - it was fantastic! What made it so great is that there was this really awesome celebration to go along with it. We started at the US Federal Courthouse in downtown Tallahassee, where they provided cake and punch - I thought that was a nice touch. The magistrate judge swore in the oath takers there...as there were a few people who were elderly and would not be able to handle the 100 degree heat. We then went by police motorcade (which was an unreal experience) to the park. At the park, the City of Tallahassee had special performers, the Honor Guard, and so many other things for the event that it was just so special. Three weeks later, my husband's coworker went to her oath ceremony. He asked her how it went and she said that she was in and out within 20 minutes - nothing special.

One funny thing to note - when these ceremonies are held outside of a USCIS office, they send an Immigration Officer to oversee the ceremony. The IO at our ceremony just so happened to be the same one who interviewed us for our adjustment of status interview.

I will also point out that if you believe that everyone that is on VJ comes here because they're in love and that all they want to do is be with their partner...well, you're deluding yourself. Citizenship is a better life for many of them and they can't wait to apply for their families to come over, which is something you are very limited in doing with LPR status.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Staashi

[Heracles 417]

How does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by any other means? Citizenship by marriage done by bona fide means is still a lot of work. For those of us who have married to a USC and gained residency then applied for citizenship had to do a ton of paperwork that normal USC couples would probably never have plus all the stress and worry about being taken for your loved ones at anytime until its permanent. I did not enter via a marriage visa, so I can't speak about that, but aren't we all legal immigrants applying for citizenship in some form on this forum... why the separation?

I agree people should have a reason to be a USC, I have family who remained LPR because that was good enough for them, they never travel and unfortunately dont chose to vote (just like many USC), but its a chose they have chosen which makes citizenship not necessary.

Nothing like having to come here under a H1. A visa with a quota of 65,000 per year. I am not saying people applying based on marriage are not genuine but if someone feels it's just a convenience, then stick to LPR status. After all, that is why the LPR visa is there. Under a LPR, people are indefinitely permitted to live in the US but don't have to have any allegiance.

[Heracles 417]

Your question can be taken more than one way -- Just food for thought, I can already see all the weaknesses here: Why does citizenship by marriage make any difference than citizenship by birth, which is conferred immediately with no tests or paperwork??? The answer of course is that you can't change your parents, but you CAN change your spouse.

The difference is in motivation. Ideally, people who pursue spousal visas have a COMPLETELY different motivation to come to the US than people who pursue any other type of immigrant visa. Spouses want to be with their loved ones. People who come here for economic reasons and wait for years, love the USA for being the "Land of Opportunity" and have specifically decided to come here. Just because someone accidentally falls in love with a US citizen doesn't mean they have to love the US.

So then do not become a citizen. It's not rocket science by any stretch. Once someone has LPR, they have been granted permission to indefinitely live and stay in the country. For many, that is all they need. Hence, the intent of the visa (legal status).

As part of applying for citizenship, it is a condition that the applicant forfeits loyalty to another nation and swears their allegiance to the United States. Citizenship effectively becomes a marriage between a person and a nation. The only way to get out of this marriage it is to renounce it.

[Heracles 417]

I will also point out that if you believe that everyone that is on VJ comes here because they're in love and that all they want to do is be with their partner...well, you're deluding yourself. Citizenship is a better life for many of them and they can't wait to apply for their families to come over, which is something you are very limited in doing with LPR status.

Exactly. Many seem to deny this. For someone who is living in poverty they will do anything to get to the US, become a citizen and then bring their family. Yes even marry a 55 year old, even though they are 22. I come from an English nation myself, so I know first had that people are a little naive of the motives and mindset of some from third world countries. They assume that since they would never do such a thing on one would enter a marriage of convenience, for the sake of a VISA.

I would be interested to see how many people from third world countries whose marriage ends in divorce, stay here rather than go home. You do see it at lot here. Where people apply for AOS and so on even though they are divorced. Interesting coincidence that most examples I have seen like that, the applicant is usually from a third world country. If I was ended up divorced, I would be on the next flight back to my place of birth.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Constellation