Re-approval of k1

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

1. The first time I met her in person was when I asked her to marry me. I was there for two weeks and submitted the petition upon returning.

2. I was not present for the first interview, but when it was denied I hopped on a plane to confront the consulate and was granted another interview with the visa chief himself.

3. We had an engagement ceremony and invited almost 80 of her relatives, several pictures of the ceremony were included in the petition.

4. We have many pictures of me with her and her family and a sampling of them was included in the petition.

5. I included a letter with the petition (I don't remember if it was required or not, but my lawyer told me to write it and what all I needed to say in it) about how the relationship started and progressed and made it clear that there were no financial contributions from my fiancee's family in the US towards the relationship.

The whole system is very unfair towards the innocent petitioner/beneficiary, where we have to as you said, "bend over backwards" to prove that our petition is true. I should think that the very fact that there are little inconsistencies here and there would add more evidence that the relationship is real rather than a spotless, orthodox relationship petition would be. The relationship between my fiancee and I is by no means "normal" but we are held to the standards of what is perceived in the mainstream to be a "normal" relationship.

Ok, let's see if I understand correctly...

You were introduced by her aunt. On your first visit to Vietnam you met your fiancee, asked her to marry you, and had an engagement ceremony. Correct so far?

I think it's clear the CO thought this marriage was pre-arranged by the aunt for immigration purposes. They wouldn't deny the visa just because they suspected the marriage was arranged. Arranged marriages are still quite common in Vietnam. However, the arrangements are made by the parents of the bride and groom months or years before the formal engagement ceremony, which may be months or years before the actual marriage. The engagement ceremony alone usually takes a couple of months to plan. It takes a couple of weeks just to have the ao dai custom ordered to fit. They would also be suspicious of an arranged marriage between a foreigner and a Vietnamese national, unless the foreigner is a Viet Kieu, or ex-pat Vietnamese.

In the consulate's view, the engagement was rushed. They would have expected a more gradual timeline, like you proposed sometime after the first meeting, and then had the engagement ceremony sometime after that. I doubt you presented this as an arranged marriage, which makes the fact that you packed everything into a two week visit even more suspicious to them.

First, yes I agree that it's grossly unfair, but you have to look at it from the consulate's perspective. Vietnam is one of the highest visa fraud countries in the world - not because the Vietnamese are dishonest people, but because there are many Vietnamese in the US who want to be reunited with their families. Being introduced by a family member, followed by a single visit that included the first meeting, proposal, and formal engagement, is a stereotype for a relationship arranged for the purpose of immigration.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - I AM NOT IMPLYING YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG HERE! I'm just trying to help you see it the way the consulate saw it, and why they denied your fiancee's visa.

Going forward, you have to overcome this by convincing them that the relationship is sincere. If you can afford another trip soon, do it. Take your fiancee someplace fun and romantic (I hear Da Lat is lovely!), spend some money on her, and take pictures. A fraudster would avoid spending any more money than necessary. If there's any way you can be at the consulate if and when she has another interview, then do so. If you aren't permitted into the consulate with her, then wait across the street with the other family members, and give her your passport so she can show the CO you're outside waiting for her.

If your petition is kicked back to USCIS a second time then you may end up having to get married, and start a CR1 petition.

Bottom line - don't give up. It may take some extra time, but you'll get there!

[kosuke85 0]

Ok, let's see if I understand correctly...

You were introduced by her aunt. On your first visit to Vietnam you met your fiancee, asked her to marry you, and had an engagement ceremony. Correct so far?

I think it's clear the CO thought this marriage was pre-arranged by the aunt for immigration purposes. They wouldn't deny the visa just because they suspected the marriage was arranged. Arranged marriages are still quite common in Vietnam. However, the arrangements are made by the parents of the bride and groom months or years before the formal engagement ceremony, which may be months or years before the actual marriage. The engagement ceremony alone usually takes a couple of months to plan. It takes a couple of weeks just to have the ao dai custom ordered to fit. They would also be suspicious of an arranged marriage between a foreigner and a Vietnamese national, unless the foreigner is a Viet Kieu, or ex-pat Vietnamese.

In the consulate's view, the engagement was rushed. They would have expected a more gradual timeline, like you proposed sometime after the first meeting, and then had the engagement ceremony sometime after that. I doubt you presented this as an arranged marriage, which makes the fact that you packed everything into a two week visit even more suspicious to them.

First, yes I agree that it's grossly unfair, but you have to look at it from the consulate's perspective. Vietnam is one of the highest visa fraud countries in the world - not because the Vietnamese are dishonest people, but because there are many Vietnamese in the US who want to be reunited with their families. Being introduced by a family member, followed by a single visit that included the first meeting, proposal, and formal engagement, is a stereotype for a relationship arranged for the purpose of immigration.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - I AM NOT IMPLYING YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG HERE! I'm just trying to help you see it the way the consulate saw it, and why they denied your fiancee's visa.

Going forward, you have to overcome this by convincing them that the relationship is sincere. If you can afford another trip soon, do it. Take your fiancee someplace fun and romantic (I hear Da Lat is lovely!), spend some money on her, and take pictures. A fraudster would avoid spending any more money than necessary. If there's any way you can be at the consulate if and when she has another interview, then do so. If you aren't permitted into the consulate with her, then wait across the street with the other family members, and give her your passport so she can show the CO you're outside waiting for her.

If your petition is kicked back to USCIS a second time then you may end up having to get married, and start a CR1 petition.

Bottom line - don't give up. It may take some extra time, but you'll get there!

I have been preparing to go back in a month or two, maybe earlier depending on the response my fiancee gets from the consulate about our petition. We have also considered the cr1 route, but to get married in Vietnam you and your spouse-to-be have to be fluent (and be able to prove this) in a common language. And from what we have discussed in our pm's, this is pretty much off the table.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I have been preparing to go back in a month or two, maybe earlier depending on the response my fiancee gets from the consulate about our petition. We have also considered the cr1 route, but to get married in Vietnam you and your spouse-to-be have to be fluent (and be able to prove this) in a common language. And from what we have discussed in our pm's, this is pretty much off the table.

Hey, you've been doing your homework!

Yes, there are hoops you have to jump through to get married in Vietnam. The burden, however, is on your fiancee. If you don't speak Vietnamese, then the VN government is going to require her to speak English. The way they do this is mind blowing. You and her both sit in a room with an interviewer and two translators. Throughout the entire interview, the translators say nothing. The interviewer asks your fiancee a question in Vietnamese, she has to translate the question to you in English, and then translate your response back to Vietnamese for the interviewer. At the end of the interview, they ask you and your fiancee to leave the room, and the translators tell the interviewer how well your fiancee did.

You can actually get around this, even if your fiancee's English is fractured, as long as you understand her fractured English, and you can communicate a response to her in a way she understands. If you think a CR1 might be in your future then you should probably be speaking to your fiancee fairly regularly, either on the phone or using Skype or Yahoo Messenger, to help her with her English.

[TBoneTX 46,188]

How educational and illuminating the recent messages are, in very pleasant contrast to the broken-record, broad-brush lawyer-bashing of earlier. Many of these hints can be applied to other petitions and other consular experiences.

[bryonm4 0]

Most of the time the K1 will expire before it gets back to the USCIS so they will not even review it, but in some cases they will. In my case they are reviewing it because my senator contacted Bennit and he promissed my senator I would get a chance to appeal it so there is a special request for the USCIS to review it. my K1 was last touched 06/17/2009 we were denied back in December of 2008. Even if they do approve my K1 and send it back it won't help since we are married now and filed for a CR1 the K1 becomes invalid. I would advise not to marry her now that they are sending your K1 back because they will not give you the k1 visa if you are married you will have to file for a CR1 and wait 6 months or longer.

The denial ratio for K1 are over 50% in Ho Chi Minh it is the hardest place to get a visa. I have personally spoken to many attorneys in the US and Vietnam and have had several consults. There is a misconception here and that is when the petition is sent back to the USCIS if it does not expire in the case of a K3 or CR1 the USCIS will most of the time agree with the consulate and not reaffirm the petition to send back. In that case you will get a NOIR letter and you will get 30 days to respond with your evedience. Most of the time 90% to 95% they will agree with the petitioner if the evedince is stong and you have addressed the consulate's issues and concers and reaffirm the petition and send it back to the consulate with a recommendation to issue the visa. You will then get a second interview this interview you will have a high chance to pass and get the visa. For them to fail you the second time after the USCIS approved they would have to come up with new evedience to deny. The consulate cannot deny for a reason the USCIS is aware of when the approve or reaffirm you petition. If they denied for non bonafied the first time and the USCIS asks for your evedience then sends visa back to the consulate the chances for them denying for non bonafide the second time listing the same reason they did the first time are nill.

So if they deny for non bonafide because of no engagement party or saying you proposed after knowing her for only 2 weeks and the USCIS is aware of this and they arrpove your visa or reaffirm it and send it back the consulate cannot use that as an excuse to deny. They can ask you wife whats his favorite color or favorite food and if she says I don't know then they can deny for non bonafide because she didn't know husbands favorite food or color but I have never seen that happen when the issue's were address properly on the appeal.

[Roy&katy 1]

Most of the time the K1 will expire before it gets back to the USCIS so they will not even review it, but in some cases they will. In my case they are reviewing it because my senator contacted Bennit and he promissed my senator I would get a chance to appeal it so there is a special request for the USCIS to review it. my K1 was last touched 06/17/2009 we were denied back in December of 2008. Even if they do approve my K1 and send it back it won't help since we are married now and filed for a CR1 the K1 becomes invalid. I would advise not to marry her now that they are sending your K1 back because they will not give you the k1 visa if you are married you will have to file for a CR1 and wait 6 months or longer.

The denial ratio for K1 are over 50% in Ho Chi Minh it is the hardest place to get a visa. I have personally spoken to many attorneys in the US and Vietnam and have had several consults. There is a misconception here and that is when the petition is sent back to the USCIS if it does not expire in the case of a K3 or CR1 the USCIS will most of the time agree with the consulate and not reaffirm the petition to send back. In that case you will get a NOIR letter and you will get 30 days to respond with your evedience. Most of the time 90% to 95% they will agree with the petitioner if the evedince is stong and you have addressed the consulate's issues and concers and reaffirm the petition and send it back to the consulate with a recommendation to issue the visa. You will then get a second interview this interview you will have a high chance to pass and get the visa. For them to fail you the second time after the USCIS approved they would have to come up with new evedience to deny. The consulate cannot deny for a reason the USCIS is aware of when the approve or reaffirm you petition. If they denied for non bonafied the first time and the USCIS asks for your evedience then sends visa back to the consulate the chances for them denying for non bonafide the second time listing the same reason they did the first time are nill.

So if they deny for non bonafide because of no engagement party or saying you proposed after knowing her for only 2 weeks and the USCIS is aware of this and they arrpove your visa or reaffirm it and send it back the consulate cannot use that as an excuse to deny. They can ask you wife whats his favorite color or favorite food and if she says I don't know then they can deny for non bonafide because she didn't know husbands favorite food or color but I have never seen that happen when the issue's were address properly on the appeal.

We were denied in ecuador for "immigration purposes only" and they sent our case back, and uscis reaffirmed without any requests..we just got a new notice of action 2.... its says receipt date...oct...2007... and approval date june 12 2009.... and they sent another notice of action that says its been sent to dos for action..

[kosuke85 0]

I'm wondering how long it'll take for the petition to get back to HCM consulate and for them to issue a notice to my fiancee?

[rebeccajo 14]

How educational and illuminating the recent messages are, in very pleasant contrast to the broken-record, broad-brush lawyer-bashing of earlier. Many of these hints can be applied to other petitions and other consular experiences.

Exactly. I am sick to my eyeballs of Gary's constant BS when it comes to this topic.

[daboyz 36]

How educational and illuminating the recent messages are, in very pleasant contrast to the broken-record, broad-brush lawyer-bashing of earlier. Many of these hints can be applied to other petitions and other consular experiences.

Exactly. I am sick to my eyeballs of Gary's constant BS when it comes to this topic.

It's not constant BS. It is, what it is. Lawyers are useless. Rebecca I got more help from you when I got 221g then I did from my lawyer. He didn't respond AT ALL.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

How educational and illuminating the recent messages are, in very pleasant contrast to the broken-record, broad-brush lawyer-bashing of earlier. Many of these hints can be applied to other petitions and other consular experiences.

Exactly. I am sick to my eyeballs of Gary's constant BS when it comes to this topic.

It's not constant BS. It is, what it is. Lawyers are useless. Rebecca I got more help from you when I got 221g then I did from my lawyer. He didn't respond AT ALL.

Just to prevent this going off topic, let's not discuss the validity of using or not using a lawyer here. There are good lawyers and there are not so good lawyers. A good lawyer may be worth his/her weight in gold - a bad lawyer is useless. Sometimes a lawyer is useful and sometimes not. Each situation needs to be evaluated on its own and each lawyer needs to be vetted thoroughly by the client to ensure he/she is indeed one of the good ones.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Kathryn41

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm wondering how long it'll take for the petition to get back to HCM consulate and for them to issue a notice to my fiancee?

I'm not sure about this. Not so long ago it was fairly unusual for a petition to be reaffirmed, or at least I didn't read much about it. Then again, I can only go by what I read on the internet. With a few exceptions, nobody here has been through this process personally more than one time, so we're all going by the collective experience of others.

I seem to recall reading in a thread not too long ago that someone got a notice that the Department of State had gotten the petition back from USCIS. From that, I presume the petition travels the same path back to the consulate that it originally took, through the National Visa Center. I would also presume that the time to make this trip is the same - a few weeks at the NVC, and then a month or two at the consulate before they contact your fiancee. I'm just guessing, though.

[rebeccajo 14]

How educational and illuminating the recent messages are, in very pleasant contrast to the broken-record, broad-brush lawyer-bashing of earlier. Many of these hints can be applied to other petitions and other consular experiences.

Exactly. I am sick to my eyeballs of Gary's constant BS when it comes to this topic.

It's not constant BS. It is, what it is. Lawyers are useless. Rebecca I got more help from you when I got 221g then I did from my lawyer. He didn't respond AT ALL.

Just to prevent this going off topic, let's not discuss the validity of using or not using a lawyer here. There are good lawyers and there are not so good lawyers. A good lawyer may be worth his/her weight in gold - a bad lawyer is useless. Sometimes a lawyer is useful and sometimes not. Each situation needs to be evaluated on its own and each lawyer needs to be vetted thoroughly by the client to ensure he/she is indeed one of the good ones.

........which is exactly why the constant paintbrushing of all lawyers as useless does this community no good.

Daboyz, I'm glad to have been of help. I'm sorry your lawyer failed you. I am sorry each time I read of stories like yours at the hand of incompetent members of the profession.

I am now going to move this thread to the Consular forum, where I believe the topic is most suited and can benefit the most readers.

Edited June 28, 2009 by rebeccajo

[k.loveh 0]

Hi Everyone,

I got my K1 reaffirmed after only 4 months (The USCIS received the petition back on Feb. 4th, 2009 and reaffirmed it on the 4th of June 2009). There doesn't seem to be a lot of info when this happens and from what I've read before and heard from the US State Department themselves during a phone conversation, it's rare for USCIS to even look at them before a year is up, much less reaffim them. especially a K1 as they are considered low prioity he said. I'm thinking that the USCIS is finally getting fed up with the CO's returning seemingly legitimate petition's and finally are standing their ground. Anyway, I am starving for more information on this subject, so if anyone here can lead me and others like me in the right direction there would be a great big thanks headed your way for your efforts.

Good Luck to those still waiting,

Karen and Hemant

A Simple Timeline:

*K1 Approved May 20, 2008

*Interview August 25, 2008

*Placed in Administrative Processing August 25, 2008

*Turned in the requested extra documentation Nov, 2008

*Co returned Petition back to USCIS for further review due to his still not being convinced of our relationship Dec., 2008

*Went to India and spent 9 weeks with fiance from April 15 thru June 25, 2009

*Received letter from USCIS stating they've reaffirmed their previous decision and have asked the DOS to take action and a 2nd Approval letter like the first one I received back in May 2008 with a new validation date to be forwarded back to the embassy in Delhi.

Edited June 30, 2009 by hkgaur

[daboyz 36]

Hi Everyone,

I got my K1 reaffirmed after only 4 months (The USCIS received the petition back on Feb. 4th, 2009 and reaffirmed it on the 4th of June 2009). There doesn't seem to be a lot of info when this happens and from what I've read before and heard from the US State Department themselves during a phone conversation, it's rare for USCIS to even look at them before a year is up, much less reaffim them. especially a K1 as they are considered low prioity he said. I'm thinking that the USCIS is finally getting fed up with the CO's returning seemingly legitimate petition's and finally are standing their ground. Anyway, I am starving for more information on this subject, so if anyone here can lead me and others like me in the right direction there would be a great big thanks headed your way for your efforts.

Good Luck to those still waiting,

Karen and Hemant

A Simple Timeline:

*K1 Approved May 20, 2008

*Interview August 25, 2008

*Placed in Administrative Processing August 25, 2008

*Turned in the requested extra documentation Nov, 2008

*Co returned Petition back to USCIS for further review due to his still not being convinced of our relationship Dec., 2008

*Went to India and spent 9 weeks with fiance from April 15 thru June 25, 2009

*Received letter from USCIS stating they've reaffirmed their previous decision and have asked the DOS to take action and a 2nd Approval letter like the first one I received back in May 2008 with a new validation date to be forwarded back to the embassy in Delhi.

That's very interesting. I don't think I've seen this before.

[kosuke85 0]

My lawyer said the same, that USCIS is getting fed up with the consulate trying to re-adjudicate all these petitions and for no reason (or very little) so they are reaffirming at a high rate as it is starting to look like from the posts here and by what I'm hearing through word-of-mouth.They denied mine for insignificant reasons and sent it back to ISCIS in Sept of 08' and I got my reaffirmed letters from USCIS this month(June 09').