Welcome To The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration

[panamania79 2]

Mark was a busy guy.

Back to the topic. Why can't someone be against illegal immigration and illegal aliens without being called a racist? Is it that the pro-illegals have no support for lawbreaking other than attempting not to appear racist themselves? I know that's kind of circular, but if someone thinks it's racist to oppose illegals, they would try to avoid being called racist by taking the untenable position of excusing illegality for some, but not for all, based on skin color.

I have seen this on several occasions myself.Anytime an illegal doesn't get their own way,they start calling everybody a racist.It's like an automatic defense mechanism.I find this very annoying !

and what's really silly, some fall for it or even buy into that rhetoric too.

Dang libruls.

I guess I'm the only librul who isn't fooled by them.

Good for you!

I'm forever getting called a "sell out" among other things,but I really could care less !

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Much of that debt has been caused by lenient treatment and coddling of illegals, with taxpayers forced to pay for their education, welfare, and health care.

Not that much. We have 10 million illegals and a trillion-dollar deficit.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we don't spend $100,000 per illegal.

No disappointment since your premise is in error. We have no idea how many illegals are here, but 10 million is prbably a very low estimate. Besides, our problems with illegals have existed far longer than the current deficit. The coddling, and taking of taxpayer dollars as been going on for decades. The damage to society has been incremental and cumulative.

If we have no idea how many illegals are here, we also have no idea how much of our national debt

is directly attributable to their education and welfare.

Do we have to know to know it's wrong to encourage illegals by giving them free education and health care at our expense? No, we don't.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Mark was a busy guy.

Back to the topic. Why can't someone be against illegal immigration and illegal aliens without being called a racist? Is it that the pro-illegals have no support for lawbreaking other than attempting not to appear racist themselves? I know that's kind of circular, but if someone thinks it's racist to oppose illegals, they would try to avoid being called racist by taking the untenable position of excusing illegality for some, but not for all, based on skin color.

I have seen this on several occasions myself.Anytime an illegal doesn't get their own way,they start calling everybody a racist.It's like an automatic defense mechanism.I find this very annoying !

and what's really silly, some fall for it or even buy into that rhetoric too.

Dang libruls.

I guess I'm the only librul who isn't fooled by them.

Good for you!

I'm forever getting called a "sell out" among other things,but I really could care less !

You're no sell out, bro. You're a liberal with common sense and that makes you are rarity. There's hope for you

[mawilson 2,133]

Do we have to know to know it's wrong to encourage illegals by giving them free education and health care at our expense? No, we don't.

I agree.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Irish immigrants were non-White when they first came, too. It wasn't uncommon for them to be barred from establishments by signs saying "Dogs and Irishmen not welcome". Like many other immigrant groups, they attained their elite "White" status by discriminating against the Blacks they once lived with, married, and worked along side of as they struggled to climb the social ladder.

It's not enough to try to juxtapose opposition to illegals with past racism, as you insist on doing. You also need to understand the route disfavored immigrant groups took to overcome discrimination agaist them. In the case of the Irish, like so many others, they rose by turning on those who had aided them early on. Among lower class Latinos, there are those who are already waging war against Blacks in working class neighborhoods all over the US. They are trying to raise their status on the backs of lower class Blacks, as well.

Still, none of this is analygous to opposing ILLEGAL immigrants who violate our laws to get here and remain here. Please try to remember there is a distinction.

Thank you for finally giving me a proper response!

I recognize the distinction between previous groups of 'legal' immigrants, which I have listed too many times to do so again. (Thank me for that later)

I would disagree with your theory on how the Irish attained 'white' status, but you have in your own way hit upon my actual point. Over time, despised immigrant groups de jour, raise their standards of living, improve their economic and social status, AND IN WHOLE OR IN PART BLEND INTO THE FABRIC OF THIS NATION, NO LONGER A BURDEN, BUT BENEFICIAL. [Not shouting but emphasizing my main point.]

The legality of immigrants status will not change that basic, time tested, historically proven end result. That is what I am saying, and have been saying all along.

Edited June 26, 2009 by ready4ONE

[ready4ONE 5,400]

BW quote (sorry accidently deleted the VJ quotes)

No disappointment since your premise is in error. We have no idea how many illegals are here, but 10 million is prbably a very low estimate. Besides, our problems with illegals have existed far longer than the current deficit. The coddling, and taking of taxpayer dollars as been going on for decades. The damage to society has been incremental and cumulative.

(end BW quote)

If we have no idea how many illegals are here, we also have no idea how much of our national debt

is directly attributable to their education and welfare.

Precisely mawilson. I know you and BW went on to agree that somehow we are 'encouraging' illegals by providing food and medical care. I would disagree there, not that something isn't wrong with the system and situation we find ourselves in regarding illegal aliens but...

We need recognize that it is simply not feasible to remove all illegal aliens, the cost and futility of the effort would dwarf current expenditures of our so called coddling, and essentially require adoption of a police state indefinitely to try and root out, incarcerate and then deport every person in the country not hear legally.

All the while the current game of, out you go, back you come going on. There is no feasible, economical, or ethical way to completely seal our borders. When caught and deported, back they come.

The fight against figuring out how to give these people legal status only compounds the problem. Do we need to like it that people cheated the system, entered illegally? No. But if we face the reality of being unable to completely and permanently remove them, educating them and dealing with their medical issues while they remain on the bottom rung of our economy will eventually lead to thier progeny, if not they themselves, becoming better able to provide for themselves as successful citizens.

Keeping the barriers up to a path towards legal status slows the process which historically leads to immigrants success and inclusion in American society.

Edited June 26, 2009 by ready4ONE

[HAL 9000 96]

Mark was a busy guy.

Back to the topic. Why can't someone be against illegal immigration and illegal aliens without being called a racist? Is it that the pro-illegals have no support for lawbreaking other than attempting not to appear racist themselves? I know that's kind of circular, but if someone thinks it's racist to oppose illegals, they would try to avoid being called racist by taking the untenable position of excusing illegality for some, but not for all, based on skin color.

I have seen this on several occasions myself.Anytime an illegal doesn't get their own way,they start calling everybody a racist.It's like an automatic defense mechanism.I find this very annoying !

and what's really silly, some fall for it or even buy into that rhetoric too.

Dang libruls.

I guess I'm the only librul who isn't fooled by them.

Na sister... its just that the hysteria is deafening. I'd love for the hystericals to list those lack of common-sense liberals (here) that somehow are pro-illegal when quite to the contrary to their hysteria, most here support a legal immigration system with clear reward/punishment for those that follow/violate immigration law, respectively.

Of course, they won't list since their hysteria won't allow it, breaking their endless broken record of illegal-loverisms.

[Danno 1,228]

BW quote (sorry accidently deleted the VJ quotes)

No disappointment since your premise is in error. We have no idea how many illegals are here, but 10 million is prbably a very low estimate. Besides, our problems with illegals have existed far longer than the current deficit. The coddling, and taking of taxpayer dollars as been going on for decades. The damage to society has been incremental and cumulative.

(end BW quote)

If we have no idea how many illegals are here, we also have no idea how much of our national debt

is directly attributable to their education and welfare.

Precisely mawilson. I know you and BW went on to agree that somehow we are 'encouraging' illegals by providing food and medical care. I would disagree there, not that something isn't wrong with the system and situation we find ourselves in regarding illegal aliens but...

We need recognize that it is simply not feasible to remove all illegal aliens, the cost and futility of the effort would dwarf current expenditures of our so called coddling, and essentially require adoption of a police state indefinitely to try and root out, incarcerate and then deport every person in the country not hear legally.

All the while the current game of, out you go, back you come going on. There is no feasible, economical, or ethical way to completely seal our borders. When caught and deported, back they come.

The fight against figuring out how to give these people legal status only compounds the problem. Do we need to like it that people cheated the system, entered illegally? No. But if we face the reality of being unable to completely and permanently remove them, educating them and dealing with their medical issues while they remain on the bottom rung of our economy will eventually lead to thier progeny, if not they themselves, becoming better able to provide for themselves as successful citizens.

Keeping the barriers up to a path towards legal status slows the process which historically leads to immigrants success and inclusion in American society.

While we agree, there is no way you are going to get rid of or stop every person who is here illegally, this in no reason to surrender.

What crime or offense can we stop every one from committing?

While I don't have numbers but....I can tell you allot of these folks have left my area in the last year... why?

There is no work.

Step one would be to end the easy access to employment.

Employers must be punished for hiring illegal workers and we need to insure they have a way to check.

[The_Dude 1,142]

BW quote (sorry accidently deleted the VJ quotes)

No disappointment since your premise is in error. We have no idea how many illegals are here, but 10 million is prbably a very low estimate. Besides, our problems with illegals have existed far longer than the current deficit. The coddling, and taking of taxpayer dollars as been going on for decades. The damage to society has been incremental and cumulative.

(end BW quote)

If we have no idea how many illegals are here, we also have no idea how much of our national debt

is directly attributable to their education and welfare.

Precisely mawilson. I know you and BW went on to agree that somehow we are 'encouraging' illegals by providing food and medical care. I would disagree there, not that something isn't wrong with the system and situation we find ourselves in regarding illegal aliens but...

We need recognize that it is simply not feasible to remove all illegal aliens, the cost and futility of the effort would dwarf current expenditures of our so called coddling, and essentially require adoption of a police state indefinitely to try and root out, incarcerate and then deport every person in the country not hear legally.

All the while the current game of, out you go, back you come going on. There is no feasible, economical, or ethical way to completely seal our borders. When caught and deported, back they come.

The fight against figuring out how to give these people legal status only compounds the problem. Do we need to like it that people cheated the system, entered illegally? No. But if we face the reality of being unable to completely and permanently remove them, educating them and dealing with their medical issues while they remain on the bottom rung of our economy will eventually lead to thier progeny, if not they themselves, becoming better able to provide for themselves as successful citizens.

Keeping the barriers up to a path towards legal status slows the process which historically leads to immigrants success and inclusion in American society.

While we agree, there is no way you are going to get rid of or stop every person who is here illegally, this in no reason to surrender.

What crime or offense can we stop every one from committing?

While I don't have numbers but....I can tell you allot of these folks have left my area in the last year... why?

There is no work.

Step one would be to end the easy access to employment.

Employers must be punished for hiring illegal workers and we need to insure they have a way to check.

Although I agree with the bolded part, It will never happen. The republicans are ideologically opposed to this, and democrats are scared to seem anti-business.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I think Gary just posted a Right wing piece on how cap and trade will raise costs for businesses, which will be some sort of catastrophic secret tax on the masses. Wouldn't impeding the business of employing illegal aliens create the same sort of cost increases, which would be in turn passed on to the consumer in the same way?

Edited June 26, 2009 by ready4ONE

[HAL 9000 96]

I think Gary just posted a Right wing piece on how cap and trade will raise costs for businesses, which will be some sort of catastrophic secret tax on the masses. Wouldn't impeding the business of employing illegal aliens create the same sort of cost increases, which would be in turn passed on to the consumer in the same way?

Interesting way of rationalizing it. If both regulated sources are significant springs of profitability at some point... then the effect should be readily visible unless compensatory mechanisms are put into place to offset these consumer-unfriendly practices of skirting responsible environmental social business practices.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Most foreigners do. Just because they speak another language, doesn't mean they don't respect America.

Ask your wife if she would consider "forgetting" Chinese and speak only English from now on. Also - no Chinese

food or cultural references. See how she likes that idea.

MaWilson!

Bravo!

i am most impressed with your comments in the beginning of this thread. Me and the mister might just have to slaughter a lamb in your honor after all.

Good job!

[mawilson 2,133]

I think Gary just posted a Right wing piece on how cap and trade will raise costs for businesses, which will be some sort of catastrophic secret tax on the masses. Wouldn't impeding the business of employing illegal aliens create the same sort of cost increases, which would be in turn passed on to the consumer in the same way?

Absolutely - but wages would have to increase as well if businesses no longer had the option of hiring illegals.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I think Gary just posted a Right wing piece on how cap and trade will raise costs for businesses, which will be some sort of catastrophic secret tax on the masses. Wouldn't impeding the business of employing illegal aliens create the same sort of cost increases, which would be in turn passed on to the consumer in the same way?

Absolutely - but wages would have to increase as well if businesses no longer had the option of hiring illegals.

As would costs and prices

[mawilson 2,133]

I think Gary just posted a Right wing piece on how cap and trade will raise costs for businesses, which will be some sort of catastrophic secret tax on the masses. Wouldn't impeding the business of employing illegal aliens create the same sort of cost increases, which would be in turn passed on to the consumer in the same way?

Absolutely - but wages would have to increase as well if businesses no longer had the option of hiring illegals.

As would costs and prices

Absolutely - but wages would have to increase as well if businesses no longer had the option of hiring illegals.