Islam and Chicken Marsala

[doodlebugg 10]

Yes and no - I think that he has to accomodate a little. It's not like she he has to go out of his way to pick things up for her. He wants to eat, he has to fulfill his end of the bargain too because a) she doesn't speak the language and B) he's being uber careful with finances. Also think of everything we had to do - so the shoe should be on the other foot - he should be taking care of those things for her...right??

I know and I hate to say this but for you and me we were single moms working and taking care of kids and for you going to school. That's normal for us. For him it's a lot apparently. I don't think men can take a lot of tasks at once. Wasn't there a study done proving that women are more capable of multitasking then men?

It *is* normal for him to pick the groceries up though. My husband gets po'd at me if I go alone because that's "his duty". Maybe no one ever told him what his duties are? I dunno. Just spitballin here. I just don't want them to fight because they look so cute together. lol

[Jenn! 918]

What? Grocery shopping is the man's job? Why didn't anyone ever tell me this?

[Ihavequestions 419]

I think I'm the only one who thinks that Olivia's husband needs to be cut some slack. He just got out of the army and everyone knows that's a big psychological adjustment in and of itself. He went from that to working now 12 hour shifts as a doctor......stressful!!!!!

Like I said, they need to meet in the middle. He needs to do it until she can do it for herself, if doing it for herself is what they both want.

Now he has his wife here which is a blessing but also a LOT of work. Just think of how much we had to do for our husbands when they got here. I would never expect my husband to know what foods to pick up, where to pick them up and all that. Even now he's still discovering foods that they have here and not there. That takes a lot of work to help the newbies out and with all that he's going through it's probably harder for him.

So what? He accepted the responsibility. Let him be responsible. This isn't about knowing "what foods to pick up" at all. It's not that simple. It's about knowing where to find said food (there is no Wal Mart, one stop shopping), knowing how to read the numbers - if there are even numbers - to know how much it costs, being able to tell someone what you want (we don't pick things off of shelves here, the grocer/souk guy/butcher hands it to us) and managing the currency to pay for it.

Would you be able to spend two weeks in Egypt and know enough to talk to the guy in the galabaya at the souk to tell him you want 1/2 kilo of bananas? Not only that, would you know how much 1/2 kilo of bananas cost? Finally, would you understand the money, the actual pounds and piesters, to know if you're getting the correct change back? Of course not.

The only one who should be getting some slack is Olivia because you can bet that if the shoe was on the other foot she would be making doggone sure he didn't feel the slightest bit lost or inadequate. He can do the same for her.

Is it possible that he can have a family member stay with you for like a week to show you the ropes? You could take notes and use them when she leaves.

A week? Maybe six months. But a week isn't going to do anything in terms of the help she's going to need to be able to manage what her husband expects her to manage.

[Ihavequestions 419]

It *is* normal for him to pick the groceries up though. My husband gets po'd at me if I go alone because that's "his duty". Maybe no one ever told him what his duties are? I dunno. Just spitballin here. I just don't want them to fight because they look so cute together. lol

We fought about that for the first six months. While he was at work I'd go out and shop for the house. He would call and tell me he was on his way and ask if there was anything I needed. My answer was always no because I'd already gone out and got everything I needed. (Yes, I did it alone, and managed to figure it out but I don't live in Hurghada where robbiing foreigners is the norm, plus my neighborhood was good for shopping - everything was right there - so it wasn't too bad.) Anyway, he'd come home, see I'd been out, and it would be on. According to him, I had to tell him what to bring home because he was my husband. According to me, I would rather starve that depend on a man to bring in the groceries. His big issue, aside from the language and the potential for thievery, was that people might think he was living off of me. Now, for as much of a jerk as he has and can be, he's never, never, never done that. I rationalized - and I told him this - this way: the guy at the souk doesn't know if I'm spending money I earned or money he gave me, so what does it matter? Well, it mattered to HIM. It took me a long time to give in, but now I just let him do it. It makes him happy. There's peace in the house. More than anything, it was such a stupid fight to be having, over and over. What I don't understand is if it was such a big deal for my husband, and such a big deal for your husband, why isn't it a big deal for everyone with an Egyptian husband? I understand they aren't all alike but, come on, this is a cultural norm.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Ihavequestions

[aisha kandisha 0]

When do the fireworks begin?

im hoping theres not going to be any fireworks in this thread bcz there are numerous threads where this has been debated on.

No fireworks, it was just a question Apparently I missed the "numerous threads" on this topic. I remain fascinated and curious by this religion and culture and want to learn more. Maybe someone could just recommend a good book to me on the subject. I remember one called something like The Muslim Next Door, but don't recall the author's name.

Muslim women marrying out has been a closed subject for about the last two decades. It is simply accepted by many that it is a fact that Muslim women are forbidden to marry out. The question is, forbidden by whom? The answer is, not by Shariah, the immutable law of Allah, but by fiqh, the fallible law of man.

No fireworks, and there should not be fireworks, but I will address the question in this way. The arguments against Muslim women marrying out depend upon a logic that inherently demeans women while professing to elevate them. However, the grounding for the rule is pre-Islamic, as I explained on the Nanny thread; it is about sex and control. Women, prior to the advent of Islam on the Arab pennisula, were bartered, inherited, reliant upon a male for their tribal affiliation, and treated like booty. To maintain control over their women, to this day, certain cultures, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, reduce women to sexual beings whose physical allure can destroy the honor of the entire family. Forbidding them to marry among the ahl al kitab so that they remain exclusive to Muslim men, who are allowed to marry out is a continuation of this tradition.

Thus, to maintain honor, men must control women. Interpreting the text in a way that morphs women from individual co-religionists with a responsibility for their acts and beliefs into mallable, childlike innocents who would be easily lead astray and from proper practice without the wisdom and guidance of a Muslim man, one creates a justification for establishing that control. By turning women into wombs and vaginas that serve their Muslim master in marriage, one can lay exclusive claim to a woman's "purity", which would be defiled if offered to a man devoted to a lesser faith. Women equally devoted to a lesser faith, however, are elevated by their associaton with the Muslim man. I dare anyone here to find an explanation re why Muslim women are forbidden to marry kitabi men that does not promote one or more of these insulting accusations. I'm always curious to know why there are Muslim women who feel safe and honored among men who view them as possessions to be protected from themselves.

Allah proposes none of this, yet, this interpretation permeates our view of the real world. It justifies many things that are staunchy anti-Islamic, such as male supremacy, honor killings, plural marriage for pleasure, marital rape, hositility toward ahl al kitab, and the irrational belief that women who believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are can be respected and treated equally by a Muslim man, but men who who believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are a threatening nemisis. Allah warns us against believing that we are His chosen people, yet we must do just that to validate this paradigm. To validate this law, we must ignore so much of Allah's law and do so much damage to our practice. I'm not sure how anyone can hold te diametrically opposing view that women are spiritually equal before God, but also potential traitors to the faith.

To be fair, there is a view that asserts that no Muslim is allowed to marry anyone other than a Muslim, but that is another minority position.

I can only speak for myself, but I would fail to see the attraction of a faith whose adherents claim to have given women's greater rights and autonomy centuries before others, yet, when examined, in reality deals them the short end of the stick. I could not believe in a Creator who made me a lesser person due to my gender, putting another human in authority over me simply because they are male. That stacks a spiritual deck against women in ways that they can never overcome. Praise be to Allah, I don't see that in Islam, which is why I remain a devoted Muslim.

It was our Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salam that forbade marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men, not in the early years of Islam but in the years after hijrah. He made his own daughter separate from her non-Muslim husband and they were only allowed to be together again once he converted to Islam.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

It was our Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salam that forbade marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men, not in the early years of Islam but in the years after hijrah. He made his own daughter separate from her non-Muslim husband and they were only allowed to be together again once he converted to Islam.

and if that is true, then IMO that is sooo twisted and screwed up. A woman is married to a man, and the father steps in and separates them from their bond, and basically forces the man to convert or not be with his wife. A religion is between a person and GOD, not for someone else to step in and meddle in.

[msheesha 548]

It seems like you're reacting quickly without knowing the facts, ie - knowing what beliefs her husband had; what his ideas and behaviors were. It's an assumption to think that the husband was a good man with good behaviors prior to converting. For all you know, he could have been a horrible husband, and the conversion paved the way for better behavior towards the Prophet's daughter. I don't know if that's the case either. But, I'll look into it before making assumptions and reacting.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

It seems like you're reacting quickly without knowing the facts, ie - knowing what beliefs her husband had; what his ideas and behaviors were. It's an assumption to think that the husband was a good man with good behaviors prior to converting. For all you know, he could have been a horrible husband, and the conversion paved the way for better behavior towards the Prophet's daughter. I don't know if that's the case either. But, I'll look into it before making assumptions and reacting.

Even if that was so, that is not the grounds for every muslim woman to not be married to a christian man. That is one instance and should not be all of them.

Edited June 19, 2009 by TamaraLovesAdam

[MrsAmera 41]

I always thought the basis for that was the passing of religion - whereas the faith of the child was passed through the father. By a woman marrying a non-Muslim man, then the faith of the children would not be Islam. Patriachical lineage...

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I always thought the basis for that was the passing of religion - whereas the faith of the child was passed through the father. By a woman marrying a non-Muslim man, then the faith of the children would not be Islam. Patriachical lineage...

there are numerous of marriages with spouses with different religions. A religion is taught by however the parents agree to it.

[MrsAmera 41]

I didn't say I agreed with it

[aisha kandisha 0]

and if that is true, then IMO that is sooo twisted and screwed up. A woman is married to a man, and the father steps in and separates them from their bond, and basically forces the man to convert or not be with his wife. A religion is between a person and GOD, not for someone else to step in and meddle in.

No shocker you find it twisted and screwed up, but your views on Islam have long been vapid.

[sara..... 371]

It seems like you're reacting quickly without knowing the facts, ie - knowing what beliefs her husband had; what his ideas and behaviors were. It's an assumption to think that the husband was a good man with good behaviors prior to converting. For all you know, he could have been a horrible husband, and the conversion paved the way for better behavior towards the Prophet's daughter. I don't know if that's the case either. But, I'll look into it before making assumptions and reacting.

Even if that was so, that is not the grounds for every muslim woman to not be married to a christian man. That is one instance and should not be all of them.

one of my elder sisters married a Catholic man, before marriage he promised so many things, even agreed that any children would be taught about Islam, they now have two children she has been forbidden to teach them about Islam at all, the only education they receive about Islam is when they visit our home.

he wont even allow the Quran in his home, states they must all be Catholic.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

and if that is true, then IMO that is sooo twisted and screwed up. A woman is married to a man, and the father steps in and separates them from their bond, and basically forces the man to convert or not be with his wife. A religion is between a person and GOD, not for someone else to step in and meddle in.

No shocker you find it twisted and screwed up, but your views on Islam have long been vapid.

my sister who is christian is married to a muslim man, who prays, fasts, doesnt eat pork or drink alcohol. . and they now have 2 daughters. She teaches the bible to them, takes them to church. Its up to each person and family on how they will raise their children.

[sara..... 371]

and if that is true, then IMO that is sooo twisted and screwed up. A woman is married to a man, and the father steps in and separates them from their bond, and basically forces the man to convert or not be with his wife. A religion is between a person and GOD, not for someone else to step in and meddle in.

No shocker you find it twisted and screwed up, but your views on Islam have long been vapid.

my sister who is christian is married to a muslim man, who prays, fasts, doesnt eat pork or drink alcohol. . and they now have 2 daughters. She teaches the bible to them, takes them to church. Its up to each person and family on how they will raise their children.

Islam teaches us to respect each others religion if a Muslim man refuses to allow his wife to practice and teach about Christianity as well as Islam he is not following the teaching of Islam.