Islam and Chicken Marsala

[amysaid 9]

Olivia... you can't find cumin seed?! When my SIL cooks, cumin is in EVERYTHING. It's gotta be around there somewhere. I think in arabic it's called kammon. coriander is kosbarah.

I had a hard time adjusting to the "ok, you cook everything" role when i got married. my husband had previously been living like a bachelor, either having his sister cook him foods, or eating things like bread and cheese and cucumber for dinner. then i was there, and suddenly, oh, we have to have REAL food for dinner. and by the way, why was i not eating enough? was i sick? was i not eating because i was shy? did i not like the food? eeeehhh. no, i just don't eat fifteen pounds of food at every meal, ok! sheesh.

anyway, i struggled with the cooking, because i realized quickly that i rely on SO much pre-prepared stuff even when i cook what i consider a "homecooked meal" at home. i'm pretty sure my husband thinks i can't cook at all, but really, it's just because when i think of something i want to cook, it's something that i can't find the ingredients to there, or that would be really difficult to make. for instance, this time i am taking taco and fajita seasoning packets with me, and we're going to bust out some mexican-egyptian food with fajita pitas and pita burritos.

also, the gas range scared the ####### out of me.

something else that scared me: living on the 5th floor of a building with no fire escape. (my house burned down as a child, so that's something i always worry about)

okay, I am getting waaay off topic here.

[Nothing1234 2]

How come fast food joints can deliever around here but the post man can't find your house?

How true

Maybe the postman needs a scooter like the delivery men.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

@bridget please do and let me know. I'd love to know the spice place around here. I'd also like your substitution recipe to try for waleed.

@amysaid thanks for that now I know the words to give to waleed so we can look for them. I have the same portion issue with Waleed. He eats 4-5 times more than me and says I eat nothing. I made lunch today for him and it was big compared to US standards but he called it a small lunch. I was insulted and I'm the one that has to lose weight. I lovingly threatened him that he would have to go on my Dr. prescribed diet with me and he laughed not sure if he should take me seriously or not.

@annie I think I have the answer now. It's all about money. The government doesn't support the postal system and road infrastructure as much as the tourists are willing to pay for delievery. Plus half the roads aren't names so they'd rather come to you since we can't seem to find our way around.

[Henna Rose 0]

When do the fireworks begin?

im hoping theres not going to be any fireworks in this thread bcz there are numerous threads where this has been debated on.

No fireworks, it was just a question Apparently I missed the "numerous threads" on this topic. I remain fascinated and curious by this religion and culture and want to learn more. Maybe someone could just recommend a good book to me on the subject. I remember one called something like The Muslim Next Door, but don't recall the author's name.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When do the fireworks begin?

im hoping theres not going to be any fireworks in this thread bcz there are numerous threads where this has been debated on.

No fireworks, it was just a question Apparently I missed the "numerous threads" on this topic. I remain fascinated and curious by this religion and culture and want to learn more. Maybe someone could just recommend a good book to me on the subject. I remember one called something like The Muslim Next Door, but don't recall the author's name.

Muslim women marrying out has been a closed subject for about the last two decades. It is simply accepted by many that it is a fact that Muslim women are forbidden to marry out. The question is, forbidden by whom? The answer is, not by Shariah, the immutable law of Allah, but by fiqh, the fallible law of man.

No fireworks, and there should not be fireworks, but I will address the question in this way. The arguments against Muslim women marrying out depend upon a logic that inherently demeans women while professing to elevate them. However, the grounding for the rule is pre-Islamic, as I explained on the Nanny thread; it is about sex and control. Women, prior to the advent of Islam on the Arab pennisula, were bartered, inherited, reliant upon a male for their tribal affiliation, and treated like booty. To maintain control over their women, to this day, certain cultures, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, reduce women to sexual beings whose physical allure can destroy the honor of the entire family. Forbidding them to marry among the ahl al kitab so that they remain exclusive to Muslim men, who are allowed to marry out is a continuation of this tradition.

Thus, to maintain honor, men must control women. Interpreting the text in a way that morphs women from individual co-religionists with a responsibility for their acts and beliefs into mallable, childlike innocents who would be easily lead astray and from proper practice without the wisdom and guidance of a Muslim man, one creates a justification for establishing that control. By turning women into wombs and vaginas that serve their Muslim master in marriage, one can lay exclusive claim to a woman's "purity", which would be defiled if offered to a man devoted to a lesser faith. Women equally devoted to a lesser faith, however, are elevated by their associaton with the Muslim man. I dare anyone here to find an explanation re why Muslim women are forbidden to marry kitabi men that does not promote one or more of these insulting accusations. I'm always curious to know why there are Muslim women who feel safe and honored among men who view them as possessions to be protected from themselves.

Allah proposes none of this, yet, this interpretation permeates our view of the real world. It justifies many things that are staunchy anti-Islamic, such as male supremacy, honor killings, plural marriage for pleasure, marital rape, hositility toward ahl al kitab, and the irrational belief that women who believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are can be respected and treated equally by a Muslim man, but men who who believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are a threatening nemisis. Allah warns us against believing that we are His chosen people, yet we must do just that to validate this paradigm. To validate this law, we must ignore so much of Allah's law and do so much damage to our practice. I'm not sure how anyone can hold te diametrically opposing view that women are spiritually equal before God, but also potential traitors to the faith.

To be fair, there is a view that asserts that no Muslim is allowed to marry anyone other than a Muslim, but that is another minority position.

I can only speak for myself, but I would fail to see the attraction of a faith whose adherents claim to have given women's greater rights and autonomy centuries before others, yet, when examined, in reality deals them the short end of the stick. I could not believe in a Creator who made me a lesser person due to my gender, putting another human in authority over me simply because they are male. That stacks a spiritual deck against women in ways that they can never overcome. Praise be to Allah, I don't see that in Islam, which is why I remain a devoted Muslim.

[Ihavequestions 419]

I hear ya ummsqueakster. I have a nepali/indian tounge and love making their foods especially curries. I should have brought those spices here so I could cook curries for him and see what he thinks. I kick myself for it at least once weekly for not doing that as I miss it so much. I did find two Indian food resturants here in Hurghada but the prices are outrageous for Egyptians to pay in the 150 L.E. range for a dish so I'm having no luck getting Waleed to agree to go to one of them.

Olivia, you live in a tourist town so everything is going to be expensive because, well, tourists "can afford it." A 150 LE meal isn't priced so your average Egyptian can stop in for a bite to eat.

If you two have divided up the labor so he's working outside and you're working inside, he either needs to do the shopping for you or take you out and show you where to buy what you need. How on earth could he turn you loose to shop, not knowing where to get things, how much things should cost, or how to say how much you want of anything? The men you see walking along the street with shopping bags? They have those because their wife/mother/sister told them what they need at home so he can bring it when he comes in from work. Frankly, I'm a little suprised your husband doesn't do this because it's kindof the "manly" thing to do. I'm not saying he's not a man, just a little suprised. I mean, how does he know you're not going to be overcharged - even 1 LE - for a kilo of something? Trust me, it happens. I understand you're an American woman and you're used to doing things on your own, but the language barrier makes you an easy target for the less than honest person. My advice: put the smack down on that right now until you're a little more steady on your feet.

There are spice stores a-plenty; the dry spices are kept in burlap bags on the floor along with other dry goods or in drawers, like they used to do in old pharmacies in America. That thing that looks like a medicine grinder in the kitchen? That's a mortar and pestal for either grinding spices or mashing ingredients together. (We use ours all of the time.) Spices are sold by weight and you'll take them home wrapped in paper. You should be able to find every spice you need in one of those.

Olivia, google translator is your friend. Google translate what you need, then show the translation to your husband. No matter how good his English might be, he may not know what the Arabic word for "cumin" is. There's a thriving population of Indians in Egypt so there's no doubt in my mind you'll be able to find whatever you need to cook that particular cuisine.

Now, as for numbers, I learned what they look like by watching the recitation of the Qu'ran on television. Then I learned how to say a few of them by watching a workout show on television and the rest of them with this site: http://www.youregypt.com/eguide/lang/numbers (it also has audio), then my husband would work with me on my pronunciation. You got to get the numbers down. It's muy importante.

One last bit of advice, Olivia: Don't smile at these guys, Olivia. I know, it's what "we" do in our own culture, but here what a smile from a woman says is "hey, baby". Seriously, put on your poker face and keep it there. It will make your life easier.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Thanks for the link. I'm trying to get used to not making eye contact, or smiling at them, or even talking to any of them when they ask me a question just because I'm nice. It feels so rude but at the same time I constantly feel harassed by every guy here approaching me trying to talk to me and not taking the hint even when I keep walking away from them. One guy kept pace with me in the street trying to talk to me over and over again even though clearly I was ignoring him and had my music in my ears. Right now Waleed is buying all the fruits and vegtables and I've voiced the same complaint that it's unreasonable to send me out to do this because I'm a target to be ripped off unlike him and that he even told me before he wouldn't let his mom do it when he could. Then he comes home and complains how he works 12 hours and then has to go run the errands and and how I don't do anything and it makes me feel bad. So one day I didn't do anything and did exactally what he said I did lay around watch TV and sleep and he came home and the laundry wasn't done and the dishes weren't done and there was no meal to eat and I didn't clean. He asked about it and I said to him, "See don't say I don't do anything." Now I'm learning I don't have to cook or clean and it's my right to ask for a maid and cook. He said he would get that for me if we had the money but he is working taking care of me and I should be taking care of him. I showed him the post above yours and he got upset reading it saying there is some debate over there but he didn't have anything to back it up and didn't want to read it further even though he insisted I show him proof of what I was saying. It's just like with the news if he doesn't like it he just shuts it off and I called him on it. I think I know what this is about though really after spending some time with his family. At his Grandma's the women waited on him and treated him like a king and he likes that. At his home his Mom and sisters waited on him treating him like a king and he expects that. With me he is trying to train me to be like them and meeting opposition and reluctance because I'm not used to these traditional roles. He was avaliable and helpful at the begining with the cooking and some cleaning but now he's working and thinks it should revert to traditional roles and his Mom even told me don't let him get used to that. He said this is so strange she is my Mom but she is taking your side. I am her kid and I don't know why she is doing that. At first I was thinking this is just the way that their family shows love for each other but now I'm not sure if it's some archetype they are following or he is trying to place me in. I'm asking him what he wants for breakfast and he is saying whatever and pouting looking hurt because I'm wishing he'd help me in the kitchen prepare something he likes that maybe I don't know how to make.

Today is Friday the holy day and it's always hard on us because he gets home after a 12 hour shift either does or doesn't sleep 3 hours till to go to the prayer at the Mosque and then comes back and either does or doesn't sleep before going back to work at 8 pm. Why are Egyptian work weeks 72 hours for fulltime? Is this really the typical or is that just for Doctors? I've also learned we get cranky and argumentative if it's hot and well it's just getting hotter so I'm trying to think of ways to make it smoother without getting to that escalated point one day and still retaining myself in the process. Trying to learn the ebb and flow of things here as we learn about living with each other and one another.

[MrsAmera 41]

Ughhh!! Men and their mothers. My husband was the SAME way I mean waited on HAND and FOOT from day one. When I went to visit he couldn't even tell me where the water glasses were because *gasp* he had never gotten his own glass of water!!! How come mothers do that and then tell you "hey yea don't keep it up" well gee maybe if you didn't spoil the H*** out of them in the first place we wouldn't have this issue. I too hate the "oh whatever" when I ask what my husband wanted to eat. Eggs are your friend at least for my husband, Scrambled, omelets, fried all good standbys. Add a little salt, pepper and cumin on top. Bread and cheese, honey or butter and jelly. Some fruit, a glass of juice ta da! My husband doesn't mind repetition and until you learn other recipes these are good.

My husband never really told me what he liked. I just made things trial and error. If he liked it great, I would make it again, if he didn't well I would either tweak it or hold off and try again in a few months. It's been 3.5 years and I just now feel like I really "get" what he does and doesn't like. Don't worry Olivia you will figure it out

Oh yes and the shopping - sorry he has to do the errands it's going to be easier at least until you get your footing there. Make him a list and send it in the morning - that way he can pick things up on his way home or during a break in the day. He really shouldn't complain as someone else mentioned usually the men do do this kind of shopping there....

[Azzudiin 26]

All the best to you, you're gonna need it. If you were born and raised Catholic, which I assume if you're Italian you probably were - this is gonna be a heck of a lot more difficult than just not eating fish on Fridays during Lent.

No need to stereotype people based on nationality

[~Jackie~ 30]

I am sure staashi didnt mean that maliciously.

Jackie

[Ihavequestions 419]

I'm trying to get used to not making eye contact, or smiling at them, or even talking to any of them when they ask me a question just because I'm nice. It feels so rude but at the same time I constantly feel harassed by every guy here approaching me trying to talk to me and not taking the hint even when I keep walking away from them. One guy kept pace with me in the street trying to talk to me over and over again even though clearly I was ignoring him and had my music in my ears.

Forget hints. They aren't going to take a hint. You live in a tourist place and we all know the reputation of foreign women is in tourist cities in Egypt: they're there for either sex or to buy themselves a hot Egyptian husband who they will support and get a visa for. You haven't been there long enough for the locals to figure out you live there and you're not there trying to buy a husband. Give it time. Once your neighborhood gets to know you, realizes you're married to an Egyptian, and that you're not out in the streets looking for a boyfriend or a beer store, they will become your protectors and they'll keep the predators away from you. But that will take time, and it will also take you not looking at or talking to any of the men who may want to talk to you. The other thing you don't want to happen is someone in the neighborhood telling your husband you're smiling at men or talking to men or looking at men while you're outside. And they will, too, because it's their duty to keep the wayward wife in line and if that means reporting her every action, they will. Learn to walk with your head down and forget the concept of being "nice" because it doesn't apply in your situation.

Right now Waleed is buying all the fruits and vegtables and I've voiced the same complaint that it's unreasonable to send me out to do this because I'm a target to be ripped off unlike him and that he even told me before he wouldn't let his mom do it when he could. Then he comes home and complains how he works 12 hours and then has to go run the errands and and how I don't do anything and it makes me feel bad.

So what? That's his J-O-B and his manhood. Trust me, if he was married to an Egyptian she would give him a list of things to pick up on his way home. He knows this. Besides, if your neighborhood is anything like EVERY OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD in Egypt, everything he needs to buy is on the way home. Twelve hours is only half of the day. Does he have something better to do with the other half than making you happy? Ask him because I'm curious to know whether he does or not.

So one day I didn't do anything and did exactally what he said I did lay around watch TV and sleep and he came home and the laundry wasn't done and the dishes weren't done and there was no meal to eat and I didn't clean. He asked about it and I said to him, "See don't say I don't do anything."

Smack. Down.

Do it now or it's not going to change.

Now I'm learning I don't have to cook or clean and it's my right to ask for a maid and cook. He said he would get that for me if we had the money but he is working taking care of me and I should be taking care of him.

Well, you have three choices: You can do it his way, your way, or you can meet in the middle. I suggest meeting in the middle by taking care of each other. Making him feel as if he's not providing isn't going to get you anywhere, especially when what you really want is him to teach you how to take care of him. Livvie, it's not unreasonable to ask him to help you learn. It is unreasonable to tell him that he's falling short in the husband category. Until he figures out it's up to him to help you, he has to do what you can't do.

I showed him the post above yours and he got upset reading it saying there is some debate over there but he didn't have anything to back it up and didn't want to read it further even though he insisted I show him proof of what I was saying. It's just like with the news if he doesn't like it he just shuts it off and I called him on it.

Some debate? Huh? No, there is no debate. Women run the household and men provide what she needs to do it. That's the way it IS. It's not just the religion, it's the culture. No debate necessary.

I think I know what this is about though really after spending some time with his family. At his Grandma's the women waited on him and treated him like a king and he likes that. At his home his Mom and sisters waited on him treating him like a king and he expects that. With me he is trying to train me to be like them and meeting opposition and reluctance because I'm not used to these traditional roles. He was avaliable and helpful at the begining with the cooking and some cleaning but now he's working and thinks it should revert to traditional roles and his Mom even told me don't let him get used to that. He said this is so strange she is my Mom but she is taking your side. I am her kid and I don't know why she is doing that. At first I was thinking this is just the way that their family shows love for each other but now I'm not sure if it's some archetype they are following or he is trying to place me in. I'm asking him what he wants for breakfast and he is saying whatever and pouting looking hurt because I'm wishing he'd help me in the kitchen prepare something he likes that maybe I don't know how to make.

Generally, here's how it works. Girls study and study and study until they finish school. Then they may or may not work until they get married. Until then, their mothers take care of them. They don't learn how to take care of a household properly because they don't have to. Once they get married, someone has to teach them how to do it. Their mother, their mother-in-law, and their husband all do it until she's fully trained because it's a given she won't know how. And she probably doesn't know how because she's never had to. One of the girls that works for me has been engaged for three years and she's finally getting married in August. She has no idea how to cook, nor will she learn before he flaunts her at the wedding party because, until then, it's not for her to do. Just wait until you're lived here and made friends and you see how households operate. He calls home, asks for the shopping list, she cooks something fresh for his arrival, tidies up the house, smears on a fresh coat of make-up, changes into lingerie, and eagerly awaits his arrival. Yeah. That's typical, Olivia. Count your blessings that you aren't living like that.

Today is Friday the holy day and it's always hard on us because he gets home after a 12 hour shift either does or doesn't sleep 3 hours till to go to the prayer at the Mosque and then comes back and either does or doesn't sleep before going back to work at 8 pm. Why are Egyptian work weeks 72 hours for fulltime? Is this really the typical or is that just for Doctors? I've also learned we get cranky and argumentative if it's hot and well it's just getting hotter so I'm trying to think of ways to make it smoother without getting to that escalated point one day and still retaining myself in the process. Trying to learn the ebb and flow of things here as we learn about living with each other and one another.

That must be just for doctors because it's usually just 5 -7 hour days. Maybe he's trying to make overtime?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

not all madhabs view alcohol as filth.

Really? I thought I had read that they all did. Back to the books for me then!

[catknit 144]

Technically alcohol is yeast excrement. Well, at least from the biochem stand point...

[doodlebugg 10]

I think I'm the only one who thinks that Olivia's husband needs to be cut some slack. He just got out of the army and everyone knows that's a big psychological adjustment in and of itself. He went from that to working now 12 hour shifts as a doctor......stressful!!!!! Now he has his wife here which is a blessing but also a LOT of work. Just think of how much we had to do for our husbands when they got here. I would never expect my husband to know what foods to pick up, where to pick them up and all that. Even now he's still discovering foods that they have here and not there. That takes a lot of work to help the newbies out and with all that he's going through it's probably harder for him.

Is it possible that he can have a family member stay with you for like a week to show you the ropes? You could take notes and use them when she leaves.

Also re: heat. I'm a super b1tch when I'm hot. No questions asked. Last summer I would come home to a house with all windows open even though it was 98 degrees with like 80% humidity. Talk about cranky pants!!! My husband knows now that before leaving for work he should shut all windows and put all box air conditioners on full blast so that wifey will come home calm, cool and collected. I can't imagine not having a/c in Egypt. Actually I can because I did, for just a week and it sucked bigtime. No way no how could I live without it. Don't they actually have grants for people in Texas for people who can't afford a/c?? They do that because it's a health issue!!!

[MrsAmera 41]

Yes and no - I think that he has to accomodate a little. It's not like she he has to go out of his way to pick things up for her. He wants to eat, he has to fulfill his end of the bargain too because a) she doesn't speak the language and B) he's being uber careful with finances. Also think of everything we had to do - so the shoe should be on the other foot - he should be taking care of those things for her...right??