Interview paranoia... opinions please?

[amysaid 9]

When my husband and I got married back in December, we were actually married on the night that I arrived in Egypt. We'd been engaged (albeit from 1000s of miles away) for a couple months, but in reality, we had only physically been together for about 2 hours. That's how we planned it though, and that's how we wanted it, for multiple reasons. #1 reason being that I did not want to stay alone in a strange place, and as Muslims we could not stay together unless we were married. Other reasons being that we were in love and didn't want to waste a minute of our time together. So when I got to his home in Giza, his brother had arranged for a mazoon to meet us at his home, as well as the majority of his family. So we were married that night, by Islam and, we thought, by law. The mazoon ended up being kind of a cheat, though, and did not file the required papers. So we went through the Ministry of Justice and did it that way, getting the permission from the Embassy to marry, and all of that. Since our first marriage was not legal, on the paperwork for the visa I put down the date of our official marriage, which was about a week later.

So my question is, should he even attempt to address this during the interview? What I am worried about is them asking when I arrived in Egypt, and where I was for that week before our official marriage date. I want him to be prepared for any questions they might ask about this, but I also don't want to throw up any huge red flags to them. I'm sure us getting married the first day we were together would be a red flag.

Thoughts?

ETA: Yes, I am going to take over these boards with my incessant nervous chatter for the next 10 days until his interview is over

Edited June 14, 2009 by amysaid

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

I don't know why are you calling the Mazoon a "cheat"... he has no legal right to marry you in Egypt. Didn't your fiancee or you do any research before you left? As a foreigner the ONLY way you can be legally married in Egypt is to go through the Ministry, bringing in the required paperwork from the US Embassy, and registering your marriage at the Egyptian Ministry.

Basically you had an "orfy" marriage 2 hour after you arrived, and a "civil" marriage when you finally went to the Ministry.

Since you are a strict Muslim (the stated reason for marrying 2 hours after you met someone for the first time)... If I were the Consular Officer I would be asking:

1) Why would a strict Muslim woman travel alone half way around the world to meet a man unknown to her family, when Muslim women are supposed to be accompanied by a male relative?

2) Where was your Wali? How did he allow/agree for you to travel alone this way? How did he let you get married Orfy without knowing it was Orfy?

3) Where is your marriage contract? (and how on earth did you get it done in 2 hours?? Or did you mail it back and forth before your trip?)

4) Were you told that your first marriage wasn't legal? (sounds like the Mazoon got blamed for something out of his control....)

5) What was your mahr? Did you receive your shabka?

The CO's there are very very knowledgeable about Egyptian and Islamic religious and cultural practices...I don't think it would be wise for your husband to try to tell the CO that the mazoon didn't file the papers like he should have...it's pretty common knowledge that foreigners cannot be married anywhere but the Ministry...

Just remember... The Consulate is not the Morals Police... they don't care if you slept with him for a year before you married him... in fact if you did, it would probably make it easier for you... since that is more "normal" by Western standards than the "Vegas style Quickie" marriage 2 hours after meeting...

Since they don't know about that marriage (nor do they care) I'd leave it out of the discussion unless they ask if he married you Orfy before he married you legally... They hate lies, so if they asked it would be better if he told them.

But you can't have it both ways... using your devout Muslim beliefs to explain why you got married only a week after meeting.... AND tell them you stayed with him during that week unmarried.....

While it's true that devout Muslims are known to marry after very short periods of time after their first meeting, these marriages do not come about from the internet. They are 99% of the time arranged by parents/families and most of the time only the contract signing takes place quickly... the wedding party and consummation of the marriage takes place MUCH later (1 year or more is not uncommon) And the conservative Muslims who marry quickly like you did don't travel alone around the world to marry someone no one in their family has ever heard of...

So I'd suggest that you hope that the CO you get is busy and only asks a few questions... and that your husband only answers exactly what he is asked...

Do they know you were previously married to an Egyptian? Do they know how long you've been Muslim? I was married to an Egyptian prior to this marriage and they knew it well... (I should have frequent flier miles with USCIS... ) but they also know he was deported and that we fought them for 8 years before it finally happened and he immigrated to Canada.. and can't come back here EVER. If they didn't know all of that I might have expected some problem with that...

We were married Orfy in Egypt and H came here on K-1. He told them all of that at his K-1 Interview (how we were both Muslim and that the Embassy denied me the paper I needed to marry him legally in Egypt so we got married in the Attorney's Syndicate - Orfy...) They said it was no big deal to them... that people do it all the time... they just wanted to make sure we hadn't married legally in Egypt at the time of the K-1 interview... which we hadn't... they wanted honesty and said they wouldn't have believed him if he had said I stayed with him for 2.5 months WITHOUT being married...

I'm sure you are nervous... but there's really nothing to do but answer their questions honestly and hope and pray for a nice CO... there are some... H had one... very nice... 5 minute interview... congratulations, out the door....

Good luck!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When my husband and I got married back in December, we were actually married on the night that I arrived in Egypt. We'd been engaged (albeit from 1000s of miles away) for a couple months, but in reality, we had only physically been together for about 2 hours. That's how we planned it though, and that's how we wanted it, for multiple reasons. #1 reason being that I did not want to stay alone in a strange place, and as Muslims we could not stay together unless we were married. Other reasons being that we were in love and didn't want to waste a minute of our time together. So when I got to his home in Giza, his brother had arranged for a mazoon to meet us at his home, as well as the majority of his family. So we were married that night, by Islam and, we thought, by law. The mazoon ended up being kind of a cheat, though, and did not file the required papers. So we went through the Ministry of Justice and did it that way, getting the permission from the Embassy to marry, and all of that. Since our first marriage was not legal, on the paperwork for the visa I put down the date of our official marriage, which was about a week later.

So my question is, should he even attempt to address this during the interview? What I am worried about is them asking when I arrived in Egypt, and where I was for that week before our official marriage date. I want him to be prepared for any questions they might ask about this, but I also don't want to throw up any huge red flags to them. I'm sure us getting married the first day we were together would be a red flag.

Thoughts?

ETA: Yes, I am going to take over these boards with my incessant nervous chatter for the next 10 days until his interview is over

First of all, don't volunteer info, just answer what they ask in the simplest way possible. Second, don't EVER lie. They often know the answer before you give it to them. The chances that a urfi marriage will be a red flag in Egypt is slim to none. Try to relax. That's best for you.

[amysaid 9]

I don't know why are you calling the Mazoon a "cheat"... he has no legal right to marry you in Egypt. Didn't your fiancee or you do any research before you left?

1) Why would a strict Muslim woman travel alone half way around the world to meet a man unknown to her family, when Muslim women are supposed to be accompanied by a male relative?

2) Where was your Wali? How did he allow/agree for you to travel alone this way? How did he let you get married Orfy without knowing it was Orfy?

3) Where is your marriage contract? (and how on earth did you get it done in 2 hours?? Or did you mail it back and forth before your trip?)

4) Were you told that your first marriage wasn't legal? (sounds like the Mazoon got blamed for something out of his control....)

5) What was your mahr? Did you receive your shabka?

While it's true that devout Muslims are known to marry after very short periods of time after their first meeting, these marriages do not come about from the internet. They are 99% of the time arranged by parents/families and most of the time only the contract signing takes place quickly...

Do they know you were previously married to an Egyptian? Do they know how long you've been Muslim?

I can't recall the logistics of it now, but we did do some research before getting married. I remember being confused because there were a lot of different opinions on the matter, and my husband talked to his brother, who talked to this mazoon, who assured us that yes, he could marry a foreigner to an Egyptian and it would be fine, legal, etc. So we took him at his word for that, I guess. I do believe it was a cheat, because he had promised us a civil marriage and then at a later date said no, it's only orfy. Anyway. As for the other questions, I am Muslim, but I am also an independent American woman, so I had no qualms with traveling around the world to marry a man my family didn't know. I didn't have a Wali, because none of my family is Muslim. My mahr was simply the wedding ring he gave me, plus the minimum amount that was required, which I believe ended up being about 10,000LE. I had no idea what a shabka was until I googled it just now, so no shabka, just a plain gold band.

I wasn't married to an Egyptian previously, I've never been married before, I just dated one in the past. They don't really have any information on us except what was in the applications, I didn't send any additional letters or anything during any part of the process. They don't know when we were engaged, when I converted, or any of that. As far as our relationship goes, all they have is the little blurb on one of the forms where I stated that we met through a mutual friend, got to know eachother over the phone and internet, and decided to get married because we had similar goals for a family. Pretty sure I didn't even use the L-word

I have told him to only give as much information as he has to, and to be honest, because they will be able to tell if he's lying (he is an awful liar.) That, combined with some other things (he put down his family's address on the forms, because that is still the address on his ID, and he lives right across the street, and his sister still lives there...) have got me a little freaked out. I'm not sure what to do about the address thing, either, if he should try to correct it while he's at his interview, or if there's a form he should fill out, or what. He doesn't have his real address on his ID or any of his mail, either, but if anyone came to do a home interview they would be directed to an address that's not the one he lives at.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Hmmmmmm OK, well for anyone reading this BEFORE they go to Egypt to get married.... here's a simple way to find out everything you need to know about getting married in Egypt : http://cairo.usembassy.gov/consular/acs12.htm

I think it will actually help if they know that you converted during your courtship... it would explain the travel without maharam (male family member), no wali, (and there's NO requirement that it be a family member... but there IS a requirement that single women have one!!! And for MANY good reasons...) You mentioned an Egyptian Ex on another topic so I assumed it was an Ex husband because you have a child... One madhab (Shafi I believe) doesn't require a divorced woman to have a wali... but I think ALL madhabs require a single woman to have one...

He paid you 10,000 LE ($2000) for mahr???? YOU GO GIRL!!!! That's about 10,000x's as much maher as most of my friends got... Tradition is a 1 LE note... I went for gold and a DELAYED Mahr... (moakkher) if he divorces me or dies THEN he has to come up with the BIG BUCKS... You did good even without a wali... Maybe you can let him off with half the shabka...

I'm really worried that you had "no qualms about going around the world to marry a man your family didn't know". Mainly because you have a small child. I did something similar to that when my son was 9... so I'm a bit of an expert on that subject... which unfortunately sets off all the alarms in my head when I read your story... (Once bitten twice shy... my son suffers because of it to this day and he's 21 now...) I pray your outcome will be different...

As for the address... since he lives across the street it might not be a problem... but it sure screwed us up... My husband gave them his Mom's address because he lived with a bunch of guys in a bachelor flat and wanted to be sure she got the mail because she's home all day and he was NEVER home... As soon as they visited her and found out he didnt LIVE there all their alarms went off and we were dealing with the fall out for 3 weeks..

Not sure if there is any form, he might tell them at the interview that he is living across the street from his family's flat... (why???) Egyptians never change their address on their ID Cards... that's common.. they just want to know where he's LIVING and with WHOM... when they go out to do a home visit... (neighborhood spy trip)

From what I can see you're moving along pretty quickly with him having his interview already... when do you leave? Are you going to be there for the interview???

[Ihavequestions 419]

You aren't the first one to orfi then MOJ marry and you won't be the last.

Just don't lie. Whatever you do, don't lie. Tell your husband not to lie. Immigration does not like lies.

Seriously, it's not that big a deal.

[amysaid 9]

I think it will actually help if they know that you converted during your courtship... it would explain the travel without maharam (male family member), no wali, (and there's NO requirement that it be a family member... but there IS a requirement that single women have one!!! And for MANY good reasons...)

Well, I converted the summer before I went there, and because of that I was still learning quite a bit about Islam... Still am, of course. I considered having a friend there be my wali, but decided against it just out of convenience. It would have been kind of silly because he wasn't someone who was partial to my cause, but a mutual friend.

He paid you 10,000 LE ($2000) for mahr???? YOU GO GIRL!!!! That's about 10,000x's as much maher as most of my friends got... Tradition is a 1 LE note... I went for gold and a DELAYED Mahr... (moakkher)

Haha. Well, I am a lucky girl, I guess! I didn't have any interest in diamonds or engagement gold, and he knew that.

I'm really worried that you had "no qualms about going around the world to marry a man your family didn't know".

I am a pretty reserved person, so I don't usually let on to my family what's going on in my life until I am 100% sure of it. I wasn't 100% sure when I went to Egypt the first time that I actually WOULD get married, but when I got there and met him, I was sure. So I told my family after we were married at the MOJ and had pictures to back it up.

Not sure if there is any form, he might tell them at the interview that he is living across the street from his family's flat... (why???) Egyptians never change their address on their ID Cards... that's common.. they just want to know where he's LIVING and with WHOM... when they go out to do a home visit... (neighborhood spy trip)

Alright, that's what I will have him do then, just tell them at the interview.

From what I can see you're moving along pretty quickly with him having his interview already... when do you leave? Are you going to be there for the interview???

I bought the tickets before we got the interview date, so I am not leaving until about a month after his interview. He would really like for me to be there with him, but we have no way of changing our tickets for a sooner date, because I am obligated to be here in Oregon until at least July 12th for another matter. We have thought about calling the embassy and seeing if they would reschedule his interview for a time when I am here, but I am kind of of the mind to just do it and get it over with so that we can get on with the AP, rather than wait until August just so I can be there with him. Do you think it would improve our odds that much for us to go to the interview together?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Does the consulate in Egypt often ask about walis, mahrs, conversions and stuff like that?

[Nothing1234 2]

Does the consulate in Egypt often ask about walis, mahrs, conversions and stuff like that?

They didn't ask my hubby any such thing...

How did we meet, how many times, how much time spent together, met families (both sides), my job/his job, education, plans in the future, pictures, etc....