Muslims and Public Displays of Affection

[nurse1967 287]

I never walked behind my husband in Egypt except when I just couldn't keep up with him! Just as I think these things vary from culture to culture I think they vary from person to person as well.

[ridasgirl 1]

I think our hands were pretty well linked the entire time I was in Morocco. Some of the time he would but his arm around my shoulders and mine would be around his waist but of course that only works if the area is not crowded. I think there was also the occassional peck. But I must admit, my favorite memory was when we went for a walk on the beach at El Jadida under the full moon. There was definitely no problems with kissing there....even though my friend, mama, khali and auntie were all about 500 feet behind us.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm sorry sofiyya did not mean to say Hay lol please explain what is haya and now the fiqh guidelines

Haya is a concept that places limits on behavior so that one doesn't do things that cause embarrassment, division, or damage to one's honor. It's a basic character trait in the practice of devout Musims who seek to avoid displeasing Allah.

The Prophet (saw) said: When lewdness is a part of anything, it becomes defective; and when haya is a part of anything it becomes beautiful. [Tirmidhi]

Fiqh is the law formulated through the study of the Quran & Sunnah (sharia), and other sources considered to be part of Islamic precedence. Fiqh can vary, because it also takes into consideration the norms and needs of the society being addressed. The prominent fiqh schools agree more than they disagree on issues, but, they acknowledge that their rulings are from the fallible minds of humans, trying their best to understand the intent of God.

Those are very simple explanations. If you wish to know more, I am happy to address your questions further. Do not apologize for whatyou do not know, for there is no one among us who knows all.

Thank You Sofiyya for your explanation you answered me perfectly.

It was my pleasure, sister Rosalinda. May we all be rightly guided.

[S and S 12]

You know, here in the US (at least in my opinion) no one gets jealous of another couple showing affection. If they show too much affection we may get annoyed, but I have never once thought of jealousy. I may have even been happy that they are so happy. It is hard for me to understand why anyone would rather a husband and wife show no affection and look unhappy together so everyone can feel secure in their misery. My husband and I walked holding hands in Syria and most people didn't do anything, but one old woman gave us really dirty looks for that. In the airport he would kiss my forehead tenderly but not on the lips. Now that he is here we still hold hands, put an arm around each other or have a small, brief kiss.

Personally, I believe if someone feels jealous over your happiness in marriage, then it is them who is sinning, not me. I'm hardly going to act distant with my husband to satisfy other people's insecurities. I have been single before and lonely. When I saw others who were happy, it gave me hope rather than making me wish ill on them. This is my take on things. Not exactly Islamic, but what I feel from the heart.

Oh and just to clarify. There should be limits on affection like you shouldn't just make out in public. That is just rude as there is no point in it but to annoy people. Hugging in public is fine though and they do it all the time in the middle east, never understood why it was only taboo when hugging or kissing your own husband.

[S and S 12]

Just to add another point, if the reason for showing no affection is to avoid jealousy, would it stop you from buying a nice house, car or clothes to avoid jealousy? Because I guarantee you will invoke more jealousy from those things than holding hands or hugging your husband.

Sorry but this topic really annoyed me while I was in the middle east. You would think people are ashamed of their spouses by the distance some people put between spouses. Luckily my MIL and FIL are still very much in love and they show it. Maybe not to extremes, but you see their happiness in each even after all these years and they lived in the middle east all their life.

[catknit 144]

You know, here in the US (at least in my opinion) no one gets jealous of another couple showing affection. If they show too much affection we may get annoyed, but I have never once thought of jealousy. I may have even been happy that they are so happy. It is hard for me to understand why anyone would rather a husband and wife show no affection and look unhappy together so everyone can feel secure in their misery. My husband and I walked holding hands in Syria and most people didn't do anything, but one old woman gave us really dirty looks for that. In the airport he would kiss my forehead tenderly but not on the lips. Now that he is here we still hold hands, put an arm around each other or have a small, brief kiss.

Personally, I believe if someone feels jealous over your happiness in marriage, then it is them who is sinning, not me. I'm hardly going to act distant with my husband to satisfy other people's insecurities. I have been single before and lonely. When I saw others who were happy, it gave me hope rather than making me wish ill on them. This is my take on things. Not exactly Islamic, but what I feel from the heart.

Oh and just to clarify. There should be limits on affection like you shouldn't just make out in public. That is just rude as there is no point in it but to annoy people. Hugging in public is fine though and they do it all the time in the middle east, never understood why it was only taboo when hugging or kissing your own husband.

As most of you know, I'm not Muslim [though married to one previously and marrying another shortly] - this whole concept was/is/and has been so confusing to me. Why must a person constantly take the responsibility for another's feeling and/or actions?

And, I completely concur with the material items too.

[100% Al Ahly Fan 53]

People have strange ideas about the evil eye (al Ain), believing that they can bring it on themselves, or others can bring it upon them, but they can't. Allah offers us solace from it, and ways to repel it through prayer, dua, dhikr and proper practice toward others. Muslims are to believe in the protection of Allah from all things, in His ability to triumph over evil, and, in so doing, should not be fearful of the evil eye, but trustful of His power to defend you.

While comfort levels vary among individuals and within societies, including non-Muslim socieites, it's important to remember that Islam and Muslim cultural practices are not always the synonymous. Unfortunately, they are sometimes in opposition to each other because even Muslims can smetimes allow superstition to supercede faith.

Thank you for your answer in this Sofiyya.

Although, I guess I am a little confused...I thought 7assad (evil eye-jealousy/envy) was brought on by others or even yourself. I always understood that it may not even be done purposely, but 7assad it is real. Yes, Allah suba7anahu wa ta3la, is there for us and will protect us. Part of the protection is regularly saying surah Al Falaq and An Nas (I say these daily when doing salat). Also, the other practices you mentioned above.

Now I understand culturally I may be influenced by this because 'al ayn' is well know in Egypt. I know of people who say that they have physically felt or seen the effects of 7assad and took measures to have it removed from them. I always had a difficult time understanding this.

I'm not sure "evil eye" has the power to really do evil. Although, I do think it can do damage to the person who is wishing the ill-gain on the other person - mentally/emotionally and possibly physically.

Anyhow, I would be interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Edited June 14, 2009 by 100% Al Ahly Fan

[Sofiyya 1,687]

People have strange ideas about the evil eye (al Ain), believing that they can bring it on themselves, or others can bring it upon them, but they can't. Allah offers us solace from it, and ways to repel it through prayer, dua, dhikr and proper practice toward others. Muslims are to believe in the protection of Allah from all things, in His ability to triumph over evil, and, in so doing, should not be fearful of the evil eye, but trustful of His power to defend you.

While comfort levels vary among individuals and within societies, including non-Muslim socieites, it's important to remember that Islam and Muslim cultural practices are not always the synonymous. Unfortunately, they are sometimes in opposition to each other because even Muslims can smetimes allow superstition to supercede faith.

Thank you for your answer in this Sofiyya.

Although, I guess I am a little confused...I thought 7assad (evil eye-jealousy/envy) was brought on by others or even yourself. I always understood that it may not even be done purposely, but 7assad it is real. Yes, Allah suba7anahu wa ta3la, is there for us and will protect us. Part of the protection is regularly saying surah Al Falaq and An Nas (I say these daily when doing salat). Also, the other practices you mentioned above.

Now I understand culturally I may be influenced by this because 'al ayn' is well know in Egypt. I know of people who say that they have physically felt or seen the effects of 7assad and took measures to have it removed from them. I always had a difficult time understanding this.

I'm not sure "evil eye" has the power to really do evil. Although, I do think it can do damage to the person who is wishing the ill-gain on the other person - mentally/emotionally and possibly physically.

Anyhow, I would be interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Salaam, sis. Thank you for your question and your kind response to my post. Al Ain certainly is real, as you stated. You also mentioned reciting the Surah Al Falaq as a protection against evil:

Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn From the mischief of created things; From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads; From the mischief of those who practise secret arts; And from the mischief of the envious one as he practises envy.

Also, An Nas:

Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind, The King (or Ruler) of Mankind, The Allah (or Judge) of Mankind,-From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-Among Jinns and among Men.

The evil eye is essentially a curse, and belief in its power is not limited to Muslims. One can bring about evil through their own behavior by provoking others with a willful and needless lack of humility and selfishness. However, innocent or sincere acts of kindness may still stir feelings of jealousy in others. The evil eye is a test of the strong belief in the power and protection of Allah, and His guidance is a talisman against it. One must know that Allah intends to reward and bless those who serve Him. Our bounty is His goodwill, and our deprevation is His displeasure. Our duty here on earth is to earn His pleasure through our good acts toward others and our demonstrable faith in Him. That is the best and most effective way to innoculate ourselves from the effects of evil.

The early Muslims of Arabia encountered overt polytheism, idolatry, and superstition on a daily basis. Many of them had engaged in jahilyya practices for many years of their lives before accepting Islam. Ritual purifcation against pagan elements and temptations required regular reinforcement of the tenets of the faith through prayer and proper practices toward community and God. These were especially important in such a profane environment. They helped to maintain an emphasis on the desire for God, the supremacy of His Will, and to deflect the impulse to grant extra weight to the power of malicious curses. Curses are very real, very powerful, only if you forget that Allah is more real, more powerful, and far more merciful.

All knowledge is from Allah. Insha'allah, this has been helpful to you.

[sandinista! 1,816]

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have

- President Gerald Ford

totally off topic, but yr one of the first people i've ever seen correctly attribute this quote to ford. i'm always seeing people mistakenly attribute it to barry goldwater.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have

- President Gerald Ford

totally off topic, but yr one of the first people i've ever seen correctly attribute this quote to ford. i'm always seeing people mistakenly attribute it to barry goldwater.

How sweet of you to mention that

[100% Al Ahly Fan 53]

Salaam, sis. Thank you for your question and your kind response to my post. Al Ain certainly is real, as you stated. You also mentioned reciting the Surah Al Falaq as a protection against evil:

Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn From the mischief of created things; From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads; From the mischief of those who practise secret arts; And from the mischief of the envious one as he practises envy.

Also, An Nas:

Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind, The King (or Ruler) of Mankind, The Allah (or Judge) of Mankind,-From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-Among Jinns and among Men.

The evil eye is essentially a curse, and belief in its power is not limited to Muslims. One can bring about evil through their own behavior by provoking others with a willful and needless lack of humility and selfishness. However, innocent or sincere acts of kindness may still stir feelings of jealousy in others. The evil eye is a test of the strong belief in the power and protection of Allah, and His guidance is a talisman against it. One must know that Allah intends to reward and bless those who serve Him. Our bounty is His goodwill, and our deprevation is His displeasure. Our duty here on earth is to earn His pleasure through our good acts toward others and our demonstrable faith in Him. That is the best and most effective way to innoculate ourselves from the effects of evil.

The early Muslims of Arabia encountered overt polytheism, idolatry, and superstition on a daily basis. Many of them had engaged in jahilyya practices for many years of their lives before accepting Islam. Ritual purifcation against pagan elements and temptations required regular reinforcement of the tenets of the faith through prayer and proper practices toward community and God. These were especially important in such a profane environment. They helped to maintain an emphasis on the desire for God, the supremacy of His Will, and to deflect the impulse to grant extra weight to the power of malicious curses. Curses are very real, very powerful, only if you forget that Allah is more real, more powerful, and far more merciful.

All knowledge is from Allah. Insha'allah, this has been helpful to you.

Wa Salaam ya Sofiyya,

Yes this was helpful, thank you. My fear of God has ALWAYS been what keeps me from believing in the strength of Al Ayn, but Al7amdullilah, I try to be a faithful servent and will do so until I die. Thanks again for your response.

Back to the topic, Ahmed and I always hold hands or link arms in public. If his sister is there, I hang on to whomever (either Ahmed OR his sister) for dear life crossing those streets in Cairo, just depends on who's closer. In the airport, Ahmed and hugged briefly and pecked on the cheeks. That's about the extend of our PDA.

Sharifah

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

On my first trip to Egypt Waleed and I didn't have PDA in Cairo. I would ask him about it and he said it just didn't happen there. Then we were taking a walk to the bridge over the Nile and I saw coming from the bridge in the early misty morning a mature man having his arm over a completely veiled women in black. I turned to Waleed and said, "What do you mean it just doesn't happen here he just had his arm over her shoulders holding her to him while walking?" After that Waleed lightened up a little bit but very little. Before marriage he wouldn't let me touch him before his prayer saying only a wife could do this. There was no kissing, hugging or holding hands in public but we could be near each other almost touching. At the embassy I recall he put his arm around me while talking to the lady asking us questions through the plexy glass window and it felt akword because I knew his feelings about PDA, well that whole situation was akword. Right after getting married we were able to link arms and I remember feeling married and proud as Husband and Wife because he would let me touch him now because we would walk with linked arms on one side but we weren't up to holding hands yet in the street. At home he'd let me touch him after he washed before prayer and even let me lay his prayer rug down for him which made me happy because he was so touched by it. As the days progressed he eventually put his arm around me again for pictures at the Citadel but there was to be no kissing in public and there still isn't.

Hurghada is a different story. I am told it is considered a sin city because of all the tourists and the premarital sex going on here though they call it adultery. That one had to be explained to me further. You can see many more mixed couples here than in Cairo but you don't see anyone kissing in public. You will see holding hands, or linked arms, or less than modest clothing on some women and maybe stolen kisses when they think no one is looking but I notice something else. It's not just local men and foreign SO's doing this it's the local men and local women too. I recall now sitting in the movie theater in Cairo watching the new Terminator and my Husband not letting me cuddle too much with him in public per usual but seeing various young Muslim couples cuddling and stealing kisses and even grouping in the dark. The theater was spotted with them and I'd point it out to Waleed and he wouldn't say anything about it. It goes on here as well maybe in less crowded areas under the cover of dark.

After spending time with Waleed's parents he tells me they are conservative parents so I observe them for what is conservative behavior. Maybe it is like someone said they don't show affection to each other in the company of others. Waleed considers himself a moderate though from some of your descriptions I think he is more on the conservative side. Maybe he will lighten up in America I don't know? Behind the closed doors he is intimate but in public well I've just got him to the holding hands stage and just last week he actually gave me a very quick hug more like me hugging him before he had to catch a ride to work.

On the television there is something else I may make a comment on which confuses me. On the 8 english movie channels I have out of the 900 sattilite channels we get I have observed that they edit out all the love scenes or nude scenes. That goes for a couple hugging, to a couple kissing, to a couple making love, or just showing a nude body in any way shape or form and this is at all hours on these channels even during safe harbor hours. Sometimes the movie doesn't make any sense when they edit these scenes out but I understand that culturally they do this here. But on arabic movie channels you'll get kissing, you'll get flirting such as running and holding hands on the beach and playing, and you'll get half naked lebanese stars and their half dressed hunks making googly eyes? These movies aren't new either, some of them are older from the 50's-70's and you've got belly dancing scenes going on in the desert like with the bedoiun tribal scenes. One night I got really bored and explored all 900 channels and found around 200 Euro trash and Arab sex channels with full nudity in the 400 and up level and this coming after Egypt just made porn illegal. I have no idea how they will control that. Then there was about 400 Islamic and Christian programming channels to match that adequately and make up for it. The rest were a dabble of fashion channels, english movie channels, news programming channels, but overwhelmingly entertainment channels from the ameture to professional singers. They love to sing here and it doesn't matter if they sound good or not. Even reciting the quran sounds like singing. When the call for the prayer goes off five times a day it sounds like singing and they are having a singing competition all over the place.

[caybee 21]

Beautiful avatar pic, Olivia

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Beautiful avatar pic, Olivia

I was just thinking the same thing

[Aymsgirl 0]

On my first trip to Egypt Waleed and I didn't have PDA in Cairo. I would ask him about it and he said it just didn't happen there. Then we were taking a walk to the bridge over the Nile and I saw coming from the bridge in the early misty morning a mature man having his arm over a completely veiled women in black. I turned to Waleed and said, "What do you mean it just doesn't happen here he just had his arm over her shoulders holding her to him while walking?" After that Waleed lightened up a little bit but very little. Before marriage he wouldn't let me touch him before his prayer saying only a wife could do this. There was no kissing, hugging or holding hands in public but we could be near each other almost touching. At the embassy I recall he put his arm around me while talking to the lady asking us questions through the plexy glass window and it felt akword because I knew his feelings about PDA, well that whole situation was akword. Right after getting married we were able to link arms and I remember feeling married and proud as Husband and Wife because he would let me touch him now because we would walk with linked arms on one side but we weren't up to holding hands yet in the street. At home he'd let me touch him after he washed before prayer and even let me lay his prayer rug down for him which made me happy because he was so touched by it. As the days progressed he eventually put his arm around me again for pictures at the Citadel but there was to be no kissing in public and there still isn't.

Hurghada is a different story. I am told it is considered a sin city because of all the tourists and the premarital sex going on here though they call it adultery. That one had to be explained to me further. You can see many more mixed couples here than in Cairo but you don't see anyone kissing in public. You will see holding hands, or linked arms, or less than modest clothing on some women and maybe stolen kisses when they think no one is looking but I notice something else. It's not just local men and foreign SO's doing this it's the local men and local women too. I recall now sitting in the movie theater in Cairo watching the new Terminator and my Husband not letting me cuddle too much with him in public per usual but seeing various young Muslim couples cuddling and stealing kisses and even grouping in the dark. The theater was spotted with them and I'd point it out to Waleed and he wouldn't say anything about it. It goes on here as well maybe in less crowded areas under the cover of dark.

After spending time with Waleed's parents he tells me they are conservative parents so I observe them for what is conservative behavior. Maybe it is like someone said they don't show affection to each other in the company of others. Waleed considers himself a moderate though from some of your descriptions I think he is more on the conservative side. Maybe he will lighten up in America I don't know? Behind the closed doors he is intimate but in public well I've just got him to the holding hands stage and just last week he actually gave me a very quick hug more like me hugging him before he had to catch a ride to work.

On the television there is something else I may make a comment on which confuses me. On the 8 english movie channels I have out of the 900 sattilite channels we get I have observed that they edit out all the love scenes or nude scenes. That goes for a couple hugging, to a couple kissing, to a couple making love, or just showing a nude body in any way shape or form and this is at all hours on these channels even during safe harbor hours. Sometimes the movie doesn't make any sense when they edit these scenes out but I understand that culturally they do this here. But on arabic movie channels you'll get kissing, you'll get flirting such as running and holding hands on the beach and playing, and you'll get half naked lebanese stars and their half dressed hunks making googly eyes? These movies aren't new either, some of them are older from the 50's-70's and you've got belly dancing scenes going on in the desert like with the bedoiun tribal scenes. One night I got really bored and explored all 900 channels and found around 200 Euro trash and Arab sex channels with full nudity in the 400 and up level and this coming after Egypt just made porn illegal. I have no idea how they will control that. Then there was about 400 Islamic and Christian programming channels to match that adequately and make up for it. The rest were a dabble of fashion channels, english movie channels, news programming channels, but overwhelmingly entertainment channels from the ameture to professional singers. They love to sing here and it doesn't matter if they sound good or not. Even reciting the quran sounds like singing. When the call for the prayer goes off five times a day it sounds like singing and they are having a singing competition all over the place.

I agree with the others beautiful avatar. I love this one out of all of them!! We had arabic tv here in our home and a lot of the older movies had kissing and dancing and men and women in their bathing suits. I was surprised with it but was explained that years ago there was a big French influence in regards to dressing and behavior in the big cities.

BTW, I love hearing your stories and how things are going!