Another hater looks at the Child Molestation stats.

[Heracles 417]

So what you are saying was that if he was not here illegally, this little girl would have still been alive?

Very interesting argument you present here with your reverse-engineered daisy chain logic.

Because if we continue the string of "effect and cause" logic you have started here, he should have been aborted as a fetus. If he was not born, he could not have existed and if he did not exist he could not have entered the US illegally. There you go, one less illegal immigrant drunk driver.

The truth of the matter is that you tried to twist the death of this girl into your crusade, when it was because the driver was drunk was the true cause.

Also before you try and paint me with your “pro illegal alien” brush you should know that I fully support stronger illegal immigration enforcement and I totally against any amnesty that was granted in the past and might occur in the future. But I also believe is stating the truth straight up and not the twisted way that you and Danno have tried to present.

We must be on a totally different wavelength here. Naturally though, this is an immigration forum. So when it comes to anything immigration based people will be biased. Add to the equation the fact that people have spouses from the same regions the majority of illegal aliens are from, biased views are inevitable.

It's amazing that you guys don't comprehend that someone here illegally should be on their best behavior. That even us legal residents can and should rightfully be thrown out for committing a crime. Further, we too must be on our best behavior, considering we are a guest in your house. Which is common sense to anyone from a first world country. Same way if someone else came to Australia and committed a crime they would be jailed and thrown out permanently.

How many of these convicted felons do you think are sent back to Mexico once they are released?

That is why you have an immigration process. To weed out the bad apples. They do not have a right to be here. Therefore, at the very least they should obey the laws. Stuff like this is why you have to have a visa to even holiday in a place like AUS. The government's duty is to protect their residents, not to play games with illegal aliens. They're illegal aliens, not refugees.

America has this liberal immigration policy but is not winning any awards for it. Why do you think that is? If the US's approach to immigration was groundbreaking, one would think that it would both win awards as well as gain world wide recognition for it. But you do not. I'll even go a step further and say the system is even the basis of what not to do abroad. For most other first world countries this is a not an issue. If anyone enters their sovereign country illegally and then assaults, murders, rapes etc. They serve their time and are told to never return again. if they do return and are caught again, they will go to jail and for a longer period.

Based on some of these views, it seems a lot of people on VJ are happy that the United State is becoming a South American second worldish country.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Constellation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The US' immigration policy is hardly "liberal" given that they have a rather creative loophole in that "Moral Turpitude" stuff that means you can be thrown out for more or less anything.

You'd better keep that temper of yours in check BY, you're always talking about punching people out - and if you do you could discover that its a very expensive proposition for you.

[morocco4ever 63]

Are you suggesting that an American predator should have more rights to harm an American child? Are you F***ing serious?

Are you suggesting an illegal immigrant should be treated the same for harming a citizen of a country that they are not permitted to be in, in the first place?

Maybe that flies over here but I hope you never go overseas illegally and molest a child. Especially in Morocco as you will surely be killed.

Let's put it this way. If your child is molested by an American, are you going to stand in front of a judge and be happy that he goes easier on a person that is an American after what he did to your child?

The problem is that you are trying to incorporate 2 entirely different situations, and what it comes out saying is that you think Americans have more rights to do a crime. NO ONE has a right to take away someone elses right, be it a citizen or an illegal. If your stance is against illegal aliens then you are going about it the wrong way to prove your point. A crime against a child is just as sickening from an American as it is from an illegal alien.

Edited June 10, 2009 by morocco4ever

[Heracles 417]

The US' immigration policy is hardly "liberal" given that they have a rather creative loophole in that "Moral Turpitude" stuff that means you can be thrown out for more or less anything.

You'd better keep that temper of yours in check BY, you're always talking about punching people out - and if you do you could discover that its a very expensive proposition for you.

One of my close friends just immigrated from the UK to the US. His granddad is British, that is, born in the UK. he said the immigration process to the UK was a huge pain in the but and a lengthy process in comparison to the US. In addition, he is Australia which is still part of the commonwealth so entry should have been a walk in the park.

The United Kingdom has some of the toughest illegal immigration laws out there and for good reason. It is also quite hard to move around and work without permission there.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The US' immigration policy is hardly "liberal" given that they have a rather creative loophole in that "Moral Turpitude" stuff that means you can be thrown out for more or less anything.

You'd better keep that temper of yours in check BY, you're always talking about punching people out - and if you do you could discover that its a very expensive proposition for you.

One of my close friends just immigrated from the UK to the US. His granddad is British, that is, born in the UK. he said the immigration process to the UK was a huge pain in the but and a lengthy process in comparison to the US. In addition, he is Australia which is still part of the commonwealth so entry should have been a walk in the park.

The United Kingdom has some of the toughest illegal immigration laws out there and for good reason. It is also quite hard to move around and work without permission there.

The UK doesn't have tough immigration laws - thats part of the reason for the election result the other day. EU rules allow citizens of EU countries to travel, live and work freely wherever they want. Its the reason why there is a huge influx of East Europeans (though this has lessened somewhat as the recession took hold) in Western Europe.

[Heracles 417]

Let's put it this way. If your child is molested by an American, are you going to stand in front of a judge and be happy that he goes easier on a person that is an American after what he did to your child?

The problem is that you are trying to incorporate 2 entirely different situations, and what it comes out saying is that you think Americans have more rights to do a crime. NO ONE has a right to take away someone elses right, be it a citizen or an illegal. If your stance is against illegal aliens then you are going about it the wrong way to prove your point. A crime against a child is just as sickening from an American as it is from an illegal alien.

You are still not getting it. Illegal aliens are N O T permitted to be here. They took it upon themselves to enter a sovereign country. This is not the UN. One would at least think they have the common decency and intelligence to obey the freagin local laws and stay under the radar.

Is my wife totaling my car the same thing as someone stealing it and totaling it?

I am really starting to understand why the country is performing so poorly in education[1]. Some people here seriously have zero common sense. Also explains the sad state of the country. Heck, if my own mother was an illegal alien, I would hold her just as accountable. The only difference is that if my mother was here illegally, she would at least have enough decency to respect the country's laws.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

The UK doesn't have tough immigration laws - thats part of the reason for the election result the other day. EU rules allow citizens of EU countries to travel, live and work freely wherever they want. Its the reason why there is a huge influx of East Europeans (though this has lessened somewhat as the recession took hold) in Western Europe.

And you would know because you migrated there right? Funny you should say that because it took my friend over a month just to open up a bank account there, due to the various checks. Whereas he applied and received a VISA, a SSN and a NY state ID; all within two weeks.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Constellation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The UK doesn't have tough immigration laws - thats part of the reason for the election result the other day. EU rules allow citizens of EU countries to travel, live and work freely wherever they want. Its the reason why there is a huge influx of East Europeans (though this has lessened somewhat as the recession took hold) in Western Europe.

And you would know because you migrated there right? Funny you should say that because it took my friend over a month just to open up a bank account there, due to the various checks. Whereas had a VISA, SSN and a NY state ID within two weeks.

Um - I know my rights as an EU citizen

[Heracles 417]

Um - I know my rights as an EU citizen

You do? wow. Good for you mate

New legislation which will punish businesses caught employing illegal foreign workers has come into force.

If employers are found to have knowingly hired illegal workers they could incur an unlimited fine and be sent to prison for up to two years.

The fines are part of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act.

Bosses caught employing illegal workers could face a £10,000 on the spot fine. Previously the maximum was £5,000.

The Home Office said the new civil penalties for employers who unknowingly hire illegal workers would allow it to save criminal prosecution for more serious cases.

Immigrants will find it harder to secure work in Britain with the UK government poised to adopt new measures slashing the number of jobs open to migrants.

The Migration Advisory Committee, an independent group of economists, today presented the Home Office with a strict new list of "shortage occupations" expected to be adopted by the government in November.

The list cuts the number of jobs deemed to have a shortage of people to fill them and therefore available to workers from outside the European Union (EU) by 30 per cent.

Border and Immigration Minister Liam Byrne said once finalised next month, the list would form part of the British government's points-based system for skilled migrants.

"Our new Australian-style points system is flexible to meet the needs of British business while ensuring that only those we want and no more can come here to work," Byrne said.

"Those that do come will need to work hard, play by the rules and speak English."

Among occupations on the shortage list are specialist nurses, chemical and civil engineers, quantity surveyors, maths and English teachers, ship and hovercraft officers, veterinary surgeons, sheep shearers, jockeys and horse trainers.

Some professions, such as construction, catering and IT, were deemed to have a shortage but the committee did not regard it as "sensible" to include them on the list, as it did not want to deter firms from training British workers to fill vacancies.

Chef and careworker positions would qualify for the list, but only if they paid enough.

For example, Indian restaurants would be allowed to recruit chefs from outside the EU, provided they paid a minimum of STG8.10 ($A17.65) an hour.

The guidelines have sparked concern among care workers, many of whom believe the STG8.80 ($A19.17) an hour minimum salary needed for migrants from outside the EU to qualify is too high.

National Care Association board member Many Thorn told the BBC: "It is so far above what the medium pay levels are within care homes for senior care workers, it is just not going to be achievable."

Inter-company transfers will be exempt and firms will still be able to recruit for jobs not on the list if there are no suitable applicants when the the position is advertised in the EU.

AAP

Edited June 10, 2009 by Constellation

[Heracles 417]

PS For your information six, I too am a 'European Citizen'.

[Krikit 1,164]

How many of these convicted felons do you think are sent back to Mexico once they are released?

100%

America has this liberal immigration policy but is not winning any awards for it. Why do you think that is? If the US's approach to immigration was groundbreaking, one would think that it would both win awards as well as gain world wide recognition for it. But you do not. I'll even go a step further and say the system is even the basis of what not to do abroad. For most other first world countries this is a not an issue. If anyone enters their sovereign country illegally and then assaults, murders, rapes etc. They serve their time and are told to never return again. if they do return and are caught again, they will go to jail and for a longer period.

It is exactly the same process in the US. Where are you getting the information that it is any different?

[Heracles 417]

It is exactly the same process in the US. Where are you getting the information that it is any different?

Based on the 5 trillion articles discussing repeat offender illegal immigrants. Krikit come on, the one thing no one can seriously ever say in the US is that the country is tough on illegal immigration, as it is not. I live in an area where we have a hell of a lot of illegal aliens, due to the fact that the people here are too snobby to do any manual labor. So I read about these stories in a lefty paper like the Washington Post all the time. Pretty much ever single week an illegal alien will be arrested for something. With one out of every few arrested, being previously arrested multiple times. Or are the papers lying too. Thank God the rest of the country does not share this OT VJ views.

Look at the UK's laws posted above, now compare them to the US. As I said to my 'good bud' six, it's almost impossible for a legal resident to operate freely there. How the hell is an illegal going to do it? Whereas over here, it is quite easy. Actually, I know of a few my self. By at least these guys have the decency to obey the laws. Then again, they are European so they have a different outlook. Heck, even they are shocked at the actions of half of these other illegal immigrants. Once again, different kettle of fish.

Are all illegal immigrants bad? of course not. But being that someone is here illegal we should have a zero tolerance policy to crime. As well as a one strike your in prison then out policy.What example are we setting here? That you can enter the nation illegally, rape or kill its people and then be treated just like everyone else. That is (insert NY accent)stuuuuuuppid(end accent).

Edited June 10, 2009 by Constellation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Um - I know my rights as an EU citizen

You do? wow. Good for you mate

New legislation which will punish businesses caught employing illegal foreign workers has come into force.

If employers are found to have knowingly hired illegal workers they could incur an unlimited fine and be sent to prison for up to two years.

The fines are part of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act.

Bosses caught employing illegal workers could face a £10,000 on the spot fine. Previously the maximum was £5,000.

The Home Office said the new civil penalties for employers who unknowingly hire illegal workers would allow it to save criminal prosecution for more serious cases.

Immigrants will find it harder to secure work in Britain with the UK government poised to adopt new measures slashing the number of jobs open to migrants.

The Migration Advisory Committee, an independent group of economists, today presented the Home Office with a strict new list of "shortage occupations" expected to be adopted by the government in November.

The list cuts the number of jobs deemed to have a shortage of people to fill them and therefore available to workers from outside the European Union (EU) by 30 per cent.

Border and Immigration Minister Liam Byrne said once finalised next month, the list would form part of the British government's points-based system for skilled migrants.

"Our new Australian-style points system is flexible to meet the needs of British business while ensuring that only those we want and no more can come here to work," Byrne said.

"Those that do come will need to work hard, play by the rules and speak English."

Among occupations on the shortage list are specialist nurses, chemical and civil engineers, quantity surveyors, maths and English teachers, ship and hovercraft officers, veterinary surgeons, sheep shearers, jockeys and horse trainers.

Some professions, such as construction, catering and IT, were deemed to have a shortage but the committee did not regard it as "sensible" to include them on the list, as it did not want to deter firms from training British workers to fill vacancies.

Chef and careworker positions would qualify for the list, but only if they paid enough.

For example, Indian restaurants would be allowed to recruit chefs from outside the EU, provided they paid a minimum of STG8.10 ($A17.65) an hour.

The guidelines have sparked concern among care workers, many of whom believe the STG8.80 ($A19.17) an hour minimum salary needed for migrants from outside the EU to qualify is too high.

National Care Association board member Many Thorn told the BBC: "It is so far above what the medium pay levels are within care homes for senior care workers, it is just not going to be achievable."

Inter-company transfers will be exempt and firms will still be able to recruit for jobs not on the list if there are no suitable applicants when the the position is advertised in the EU.

AAP

BY - for all the blustering and grandstanding that goes on in parliament the UK has an effectively open border as far as immigration goes.

What do you think would happen if the US came up with legislation that would permit all of Central/South America to live, work and travel freely in the US without any Visa requirements?

It would mean, effectively, that there is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant".

[almaty 19]

pwned by brother duncan!

[Heracles 417]

BY - for all the blustering and grandstanding that goes on in parliament the UK has an effectively open border as far as immigration goes.

What do you think would happen if the US came up with legislation that would permit all of Central/South America to live, work and travel freely in the US without any Visa requirements?

It would mean, effectively, that there is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant".

Open border for the EU, not for anybody else. Those EU nations are also fellow first world nations.

Furthermore, why bother enacting a new immigration policy then since and I quote, "UK has an effectively open border as far as immigration goes". That article from Cleo's treasured BBC suggests otherwise. Both do actually.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Constellation

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

Ohhh i just love the fresh morning smell of Constellation GETTING PWNED!

I'm just waiting to read when he puts his foot in his mouth and gets banned for (and let me use his same exaggerations) the FIFTH TRILLION time again

PLEASE STAND BY for another banning in 3, 2, 1... That's what it stands for right?

Edited June 10, 2009 by TävôLuDô