IMBRA rfe question #1 (Yes Or No) how do you know?

[qqq777iii888 0]

Regarding the IMBRA rfe I recieved............If I met my Fiancee on a web sight, where the women just list thier own bio, pictures and e-mail and then we send one an e-mail and begin corresponding. Is this an "International Marriage Broker".

Obviously THEIR IS a company that set up this websight and I DID pay a fee to this company and THEY DO primarily have foreign woman that are customers. Does this mean it is an "International Marriage Broker"???

In the description of a International Marriage Broker they say that if it is a business that charges fee's for dating or matchmaking services and the woman are primarily from over seas then IT IS a International Marriage broker. So, I guess the question is if in fact my service povides matchmaking or dating services?

Can anyone clear this up without just sending me what I already have which is the description on the IMBRA form I have sent.

I wonder in my case which would be safer of the 2 options?

Thanks

Regarding the IMBRA rfe I recieved............If I met my Fiancee on a web sight, where the women just list thier own bio, pictures and e-mail and then we send one an e-mail and begin corresponding. Is this an "International Marriage Broker".

Obviously THEIR IS a company that set up this websight and I DID pay a fee to this company and THEY DO primarily have foreign woman that are customers. Does this mean it is an "International Marriage Broker"???

In the description of a International Marriage Broker they say that if it is a business that charges fee's for dating or matchmaking services and the woman are primarily from over seas then IT IS a International Marriage broker. So, I guess the question is if in fact my service povides matchmaking or dating services?

Can anyone clear this up without just sending me what I already have which is the description on the IMBRA form I have sent.

I wonder in my case which would be safer of the 2 options?

Thanks

Maybe the answer is to check yes, since it also says that a marriage broker is also an entity that "facilitates communication between individual's"

Regarding the IMBRA rfe I recieved............If I met my Fiancee on a web sight, where the women just list thier own bio, pictures and e-mail and then we send one an e-mail and begin corresponding. Is this an "International Marriage Broker".

Obviously THEIR IS a company that set up this websight and I DID pay a fee to this company and THEY DO primarily have foreign woman that are customers. Does this mean it is an "International Marriage Broker"???

In the description of a International Marriage Broker they say that if it is a business that charges fee's for dating or matchmaking services and the woman are primarily from over seas then IT IS a International Marriage broker. So, I guess the question is if in fact my service povides matchmaking or dating services?

Can anyone clear this up without just sending me what I already have which is the description on the IMBRA form I have sent.

I wonder in my case which would be safer of the 2 options?

Thanks

Another question is IF you check YES on the IMBRA form, does that mean that they are going to check out your "International Marriage Broker" and base any final Visa acceptance on the quality or reputation of the service??

It is all so confusing and risky. Once again USCIS has left us guessing!

Regarding the IMBRA rfe I recieved............If I met my Fiancee on a web sight, where the women just list thier own bio, pictures and e-mail and then we send one an e-mail and begin corresponding. Is this an "International Marriage Broker".

Obviously THEIR IS a company that set up this websight and I DID pay a fee to this company and THEY DO primarily have foreign woman that are customers. Does this mean it is an "International Marriage Broker"???

In the description of a International Marriage Broker they say that if it is a business that charges fee's for dating or matchmaking services and the woman are primarily from over seas then IT IS a International Marriage broker. So, I guess the question is if in fact my service povides matchmaking or dating services?

Can anyone clear this up without just sending me what I already have which is the description on the IMBRA form I have sent.

I wonder in my case which would be safer of the 2 options?

Thanks

Maybe the answer is to check yes, since it also says that a marriage broker is also an entity that "facilitates communication between individual's"

[Mew 0]

Okay, I'm only guessing here for I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if you paid for a website so they would facilitate contact with a foreign woman, this website should be considered a marriage broker. So, if they gave you her e-mail address, for example, it is a marriage broker.

However, the info you have given here does not serve us when it comes to checking whether exception (ii) would apply. It reads "an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is not to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s gender or country of citizenship."

Hopefully someone else will step on and help you make sense of all this.

[aussiewench 9]

4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B ) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

(6) PERSONAL CONTACT INFORMATION.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘personal contact information’’

means information, or a forum to obtain such information,

that would permit individuals to contact each other,

including—

(i) the name or residential, postal, electronic mail,

or instant message address of an individual;

(ii) the telephone, pager, cellphone, or fax number,

or voice message mailbox of an individual; or

(iii) the provision of an opportunity for an in-person

meeting.

(B ) EXCEPTION.—Such term does not include a photograph

or general information about the background or

interests of a person.

I met my husband on a site called 'hot or not'. He paid a fee. We both had profiles that included a pic. I was a CR-1 not a K visa but if we had we would of answered 'NO' as the site is not just for USC to make contact with foreigners. The site is for any citizen of any country. The fee is not mandatory to join but at least one must be a paying member (either male or female) in order to make contact.

You should take all of what constitutes a marriage broker and the exceptions into consideration, not just pick out bits and pieces.

[Mew 0]

4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B ) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

(6) PERSONAL CONTACT INFORMATION.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘personal contact information’’

means information, or a forum to obtain such information,

that would permit individuals to contact each other,

including—

(i) the name or residential, postal, electronic mail,

or instant message address of an individual;

(ii) the telephone, pager, cellphone, or fax number,

or voice message mailbox of an individual; or

(iii) the provision of an opportunity for an in-person

meeting.

(B ) EXCEPTION.—Such term does not include a photograph

or general information about the background or

interests of a person.

I met my husband on a site called 'hot or not'. He paid a fee. We both had profiles that included a pic. I was a CR-1 not a K visa but if we had we would of answered 'NO' as the site is not just for USC to make contact with foreigners. The site is for any citizen of any country. The fee is not mandatory to join but at least one must be a paying member (either male or female) in order to make contact.

You should take all of what constitutes a marriage broker and the exceptions into consideration, not just pick out bits and pieces.

Very true. I'm sorry I only looked at a bit of info from IMBRA. We do need more info to help out.

[Madison Man 0]

International Marriage Brokers are illegal in the Philippines where my Fiance comes from. So if the dating website we met on is considered an IMB, then the website would be breaking the law to allow my Fiance to join? Right? Mine as I written many times is Mate1.com. I have contacted them and they said I must contact a Lawyer to answer the question whether or not they are considered an IMB. My Fiance joined the Website and collect email for free and also used there instant messenger (thats how we met). I paid a 1 time fee to join and cancelled my pay membership for a "Guest" membership after 1 month. The $ I gave them allows me to get email from the website and to send email at the website. After we met on there instant messenger we just used Yahoo instant messenger from then on. Mate1.com is located in the USA and Canada and allows anyone to see bio's for free from all over the world without a charge.

My point is, If mate1.com is an IMB they broke the law by allowing Filipino's to join them even at no cost. If I answer "Yes" to question #1, isnt there a chance that because IMB'S are illegal there we will be then Denied a K1 visa?

We are both still guest members at the website.

Every Immigration Lawyer I have spoken too does not really seem to know Either, Sad but it seems we are more up on this than they are!!!!

[joeyjoey 1]

Reply with "YES" and list the name and address of the agency. Don't play with USCIS! You paid money, you used a 3rd party agency. There's no GRAY area there!

[shimmy 0]

My point is, If mate1.com is an IMB they broke the law by allowing Filipino's to join them even at no cost. If I answer "Yes" to question #1, isnt there a chance that because IMB'S are illegal there we will be then Denied a K1 visa?

I had the same concerns about how an affirmative response to the marriage broker question will be viewed in the Philippines. One thing that makes me believe it wont be a problem is that it appears the definition of what a marriage broker is, differs between the US and the Philippines. Check out this link http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...19998&st=15

[jangler 0]

I don't know what planet I'm living on anymore! I was on a site designed to meet new friends, penpals OR dating. My fiance saw my profile and SHE picked ME to chat with. We chatted and exchanged our email addresses and never met on that original site again. We fell in love and now want to get married and now they are telling me that we had BOTH gone to a marriage broker?! No friggin' way! If it wasn't so absurb it would be laughable.

[Richard&Maria 0]

Maria and I originally met on match.com, where I was initially contacted. I was originally looking for someone stateside and had not considered the option of anyone overseas. Yesterday I contacted the website customer sevice and after a phone call, they gave me their legal dept's email. Below is a portion of that email (after I deleted paragraphs of a personal nature):

On March 6, 2006 onward, the U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services (USCIS) was required to examine all such visas (~10,000 were affected) in light of the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2005, Pub. L. No. 109-162 (January 5, 2006) commonly referred to as IMBRA. I have just received a 3-question form from the California office of the USCIS that I am required to fill out and return. The California and Vermont USCIS offices have just released mass mailings of these new forms to current applicants. Only the first question has bearing for this email to you:

1. Did you meet your fiance or spouse through the services of an international marriage broker?

An attached USCIS supplement provided the following further information:

If you met your fiance or spouse through the services of an international marriage broker, you must notify USCIS of that fact by answering Question 1 on the supplement. The term "international marriage broker" means a corporation, partnership, business, individual, or other legal entity, whether or not organized under any law of the United States, that charges fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services, or social referrals between United States citizens or nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United states as lawful permanent residents and foreign national clients by providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating communications between individuals.

The form also asks for the name and location of the international marriage broker, which, if you are considered as such would be:

Match.com

P.O. Box 25472

Dallas, TX 75225

I have no street address for your organization. Do you have any ruling as to your status as an "international marriage broker"? All of my match.com contacts were from my search through your US website, even though I was contacted by others. Please advise as soon as possible.

They were quick to respond to my first inquiry, maybe they also will be with this more detailed question. I am going with the assumption that by USCIS definition, they are a broker, but will see if a respond by them in the next two days will shed any further light on things.

Richard of Richard&Maria

[CKS 0]

I met my fiance on an online matrimonial web site geared along cultural and religious lines. However, it does require at least one paying member to communicate. The exceptions to the IMBRA Act allow for the latter only if it is operating on a non-profit basis which it is not so that rules out that possibility.

The second exception is more promising since it allows for companies that do have this matchmaking business to be only part of the companies total operations. From what I have read, the exception was placed in the law by the larger dating companies like MSN, Yahoo etc to avoid these companies from stopping the bill from being passed. With a little research, I have discovered that the online dating company I went through is only a subsidiary to its parent company which operates a host of other companies dealing in a wide range of businesses. Prehaps, members can find out for themselves if that is the case for them. If not, the law also states that if the match making company is not operating solely to have USC individuals and the like from meeting foreign individuals, than they are also exempt although I could be mistaken here. The topic has been beaten to death and there have been lucid arguments by various individuals on this board and it is way too early to know how the law will actually be enforced

Anyways, regardless of anyone's situation it would be prudent to have a short legal consultation with a lawyer if you do have doubt's. I know I am tomorrow and I will post the results of that consultation.

[aussiewench 9]

Reply with "YES" and list the name and address of the agency. Don't play with USCIS! You paid money, you used a 3rd party agency. There's no GRAY area there!

Paying a fee DOES NOT in itself constitute a marriage broker. READ the exceptions.

[Dinha 0]

Well, well, well...

Keeping it simple: I met my fiance on a site named MySpace - www.myspace.com, it's a site to link to you to another people around the world, to make new friends, many "new musicians and singers" are on MySpace in order to show their work! Be sure this is the best of this site!

(But I know there are people looking for meting girls and boys to have a relationship!)

We DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO ENJOY MYSPACE.

So, receiving a RFE would MySpace be consider a Marriage Broker?

In my opinion I don't think so, but I'd like to hear from people who know more stuff about that than me!

Thanks!

[Dean iWait 0]

Well, well, well...

Keeping it simple: I met my fiance on a site named MySpace - www.myspace.com, it's a site to link to you to another people around the world, to make new friends, many "new musicians and singers" are on MySpace in order to show their work! Be sure this is the best of this site!

(But I know there are people looking for meting girls and boys to have a relationship!)

We DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO ENJOY MYSPACE.

So, receiving a RFE would MySpace be consider a Marriage Broker?

In my opinion I don't think so, but I'd like to hear from people who know more stuff about that than me!

Thanks!

Myspace is free for anyone who wishes to join. Your answer would be no to question #1 on the RFE. (even though it is a big online meat market LOL!)

[Yodrak 7]

qqq777iii888,

Some interesting discussion in this thread. My sense is that IMBRA is not very clear cut when one starts trying to apply it to specific situation and it may take quite a while before there can be a clear answer to your question.

My inclination at this point is, if in doubt err on the side of assuming that the entity you used is an IMB for the purposes of IMBRA. If the USCIS agrees with you - so what? (There may be more to learn when these cases start reaching the consulates.) If the USCIS does not agree with you - great, and no harm done.

On the other hand, if you assume that the entity you used is not an IMB for the purposes of IMBRA and the USCIS does not agree with you, who yet knows what kind of trouble that may cause you? There may have to be some (many?) test cases on the road to clarifying what constitutes an IMB. If you want to participate in that effort you might want to have a good immigration attorney signed up to help you.

Yodrak

Regarding the IMBRA rfe I recieved............If I met my Fiancee on a web sight, where the women just list thier own bio, pictures and e-mail and then we send one an e-mail and begin corresponding. Is this an "International Marriage Broker".

Obviously THEIR IS a company that set up this websight and I DID pay a fee to this company and THEY DO primarily have foreign woman that are customers. Does this mean it is an "International Marriage Broker"???

In the description of a International Marriage Broker they say that if it is a business that charges fee's for dating or matchmaking services and the woman are primarily from over seas then IT IS a International Marriage broker. So, I guess the question is if in fact my service povides matchmaking or dating services?

Can anyone clear this up without just sending me what I already have which is the description on the IMBRA form I have sent.

I wonder in my case which would be safer of the 2 options?

Thanks

Edited July 5, 2006 by Yodrak

[CKS 0]

Like I promised, I just got off the phone with a lawyer and he said the law is very simple and straightforward. The key is proving that you fall under one of the 2 exceptions. How will they prove this ? He believes that they will appoint individuals whose sole job will be to surf the web etc for these sites perhaps starting with the larger ones and determining if they comply with the law. They will probably be given notices to comply with tha law and if they don't, then they will be flagged. If they do, then they will be exempt. Seem extreme, who knows but he says that it is a very plausible scenario. However, if you met before the law was passed, then you may be given a pass since both parties were unaware of the law's existence. He suggested stating this in the RFE if you anser Yes to the question of meeting through an IMBRA

Now, you could say that you met on Match.com or Yahoo.com and be exempt because they are. Then you would answer no on the RFE. He said that you would be taking a pretty big chance with that since the case maybe placed on adminstrative review if for whatever reasons they suspect that you are hiding something and will subpoene those companies for your records subsequently denying your visa. Now to those that met after March 6th, what are the ramifications of the law ? He is unsure as of yet but feels that these companies will need to comply with the law first before approving anything. They will probaly be given a grace period to do so. This means more delay in the visa processing time. Also, if you answer no to the IMBRA question in te RFE but did meet through an online service, then it will be up to your significant other to prove why they should be exempt during the interview. It will then be up to the consuler officer to determine if that is true.

Now this is opinion of the lawyer I spoke to. He has been a leading opponent of the IMBRA law which is why I called him for a short consultation. Take it for what it's worth. Please do not shoot the messenger. I am simply relaying my situation which may differ from yours. There have been a rash of questions about the RFE and I for one could not get a straight anwser but now I have. I would recommend a legal consultation with a lawyer about your case if you have any doubts. The lawyer did say that no matter what, be truthful of your situation.