Permission letter

[Saratoga Drew 0]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

[payxibka 10,045]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

absolutely needed (or its equivalent)... parental rights are parental rights..... sometimes a "bribe" works

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

absolutely needed (or its equivalent)... parental rights are parental rights..... sometimes a "bribe" works

I'm sure you meant "gift"!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

We had exactly the same situation. Fortunately such things in Russia/Ukraine are usually easily handled. We offered to release him from any future child support and he jumped on it like a duck on a bug. Try the bribery route first, it is usually cheaper and faster than court battles. If you do this, make sure to get the letter and documents releasing him from child support done up by an attorney (we used my wifes divorce attorney, attorneys are very much cheaper in Russia and Ukraine) and had a "signing party" to make sure all the documents got signed. Make sure the letter specifically states PERMANENT relocation to the USA. I would also add to that that he grants permission for future travel to and from the USA and Russia.

Generally what happens is her ex sees she is "getting something" in this case a new life with a "rich American" (we are ALL rich) and he wants something for himself. Typically he could care less about the children. Fortunately bribery is a way of life in Russia and Ukraine and usually it is not so expensive.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

absolutely needed (or its equivalent)... parental rights are parental rights..... sometimes a "bribe" works

I'm sure you meant "gift"!

I didn't. I meant exactly BRIBE. A negotiated, bartered BRIBE. Notice you are bribing, a private individual for a signature, it is absolutely NOT a violation of law to do so. It just works really good in Ukraine/Russia.

[Saratoga Drew 0]

Can they change their mind after you have letter?

[payxibka 10,045]

Can they change their mind after you have letter?

sure, but unless you give them an out or an opportunity... in other words... don't give them an out or an opportunity... my wife had her "letter" drawn up by an attorney....

Edited June 7, 2009 by payxibka

[Saratoga Drew 0]

How much should I offer him in a BRIBE??

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

I've already given the suggestion. However if it puts your mind at ease, this is entirely predictable, not disturbing at all. I doubt many petitioners get this accomplished without some sort of bribe, in Russia or Ukraine. Had I talked to you before you filed I would have told you to be prepared for this. Child support in Russia is usually pretty paltry by our standards, so it is not a big bribe. Also, consider, this woman and her son will be YOUR family. You will be supporting them. Alla was concerned about losing her child support, so I quadrupled it. What's the problem? The ex goes away, you get the ltter and you care for your family. I really doubt you will have any problem except negotiating the price to be paid.

And yes, you absolutely, positively NEED the letter or the child will NOT get a visa. You will also need the letter in the future when your wife travels back to leave the next time. Russia and Ukraine are very strict about this until the child is age 16. My wife is in Russia now, will be going back to Ukraine before she coming home. She has our 14 year old with her and needs the letter to leave Ukraine with him. She also carries his birth certificate to rpove she is the mother. That is why I say to mention "future travel".

Do NOT let the ex know you "need" this letter, if you do the price goes up. Present it as "I am relocating to the USA and my son is going with me. You can do this the easy way and take this money and sign this letter, or we can go to court and pay attorneys but you WILL sign this letter or I WILL get a court order of sole custody" The guy has clearly shown he doesn't care about the boy, give him some money and be done with it.

How much should I offer him in a BRIBE??

Start with legal release of child support.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

absolutely needed (or its equivalent)... parental rights are parental rights..... sometimes a "bribe" works

I'm sure you meant "gift"!

I didn't. I meant exactly BRIBE. A negotiated, bartered BRIBE. Notice you are bribing, a private individual for a signature, it is absolutely NOT a violation of law to do so. It just works really good in Ukraine/Russia.

It works really well in Vietnam, as well, and I my comment was tongue in cheek.

The word "bribe" has such bad connotations. If I approached my fiancee's ex-husband and offered him a "vật hối lộ" then we'd probably end up fighting before the negotiations began. You also don't say "hối lộ" to a government official. On the other hand, they'll gladly accept a "gift" for "coffee money".

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

absolutely needed (or its equivalent)... parental rights are parental rights..... sometimes a "bribe" works

I'm sure you meant "gift"!

I didn't. I meant exactly BRIBE. A negotiated, bartered BRIBE. Notice you are bribing, a private individual for a signature, it is absolutely NOT a violation of law to do so. It just works really good in Ukraine/Russia.

It works really well in Vietnam, as well, and I my comment was tongue in cheek.

The word "bribe" has such bad connotations. If I approached my fiancee's ex-husband and offered him a "vật hối lộ" then we'd probably end up fighting before the negotiations began. You also don't say "hối lộ" to a government official. On the other hand, they'll gladly accept a "gift" for "coffee money".

I suspected it might be. But I wanted to be clear.

The word bribe is kind of expected in Ukraine and I have always suspected the completely messed up documents were actually a conspiracy to generate bribes in order to get corrections in less than the "Ukrainian 3 weeks" which I came to call it. Seems like everything takes 3 weeks, unless some small bribe is pulled out and handed across the counter. Usually $10 will get you an insignifigant correction, or a needed signature "while you wait" The mailman sticks up my Mother in Law for the equivilent of $1 to deliver her pension check! It is so pervasive, and in Russia also, that it is kind of expected by anyone. There have been problems at the Kiev consulate of people outside telling visa applicants their papers were not correct and offering to fix them for a bribe. This is BS though it goes on right with the security people there that probably get a cut of the bribes. Now they have posted signs not to pay attention to these people. Happened to us! An "official looking" guy asked to look at our papers and said the "bar code" was not correct and he could fix it for $20. I told him to get lost. But he was working the crowd, no doubt made a few bucks that day. I mentioned it to the CO and he just said, "Oh don't pay attention to them, if there is any problems we will correct them in here"

Ex husbands in Russia and Ukraine tend to be drunk abusive, self centered jerks, other wise my wife would be his wife still. His loss, I assure you. They are usually interested in the source of their next bottle of vodka. Obviously not in their children, though they will occasionally actually pay child support, as in the OPs case. It isn't much, but it is many bottles of cheap potato vodka and they understand THAT

"Gifts" are what you present to friends who invite you to their house or visit your house. And it is never money; tea, candy, etc. is the usual

I think a little Doh-Rey-Me will fix the OPs problem.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Ex husbands in Russia and Ukraine tend to be drunk abusive, self centered jerks, other wise my wife would be his wife still. His loss, I assure you. They are usually interested in the source of their next bottle of vodka. Obviously not in their children, though they will occasionally actually pay child support, as in the OPs case. It isn't much, but it is many bottles of cheap potato vodka and they understand THAT

Ex-husbands in Vietnam tend to be the same way, and my fiancee's ex is no exception.

[SingleCharles 0]

I wish I had known Gary's advice before we hit this situation. I think it would have helped a lot. We are in a similar situation, but I think all the ex wants is to make Gabriellas life difficult.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I wish I had known Gary's advice before we hit this situation. I think it would have helped a lot. We are in a similar situation, but I think all the ex wants is to make Gabriellas life difficult.

No. He wants a bigger bribe. The saying "We KNOW what you are , now we are just establishing a price" comes to mind

Ex husbands in Russia and Ukraine tend to be drunk abusive, self centered jerks, other wise my wife would be his wife still. His loss, I assure you. They are usually interested in the source of their next bottle of vodka. Obviously not in their children, though they will occasionally actually pay child support, as in the OPs case. It isn't much, but it is many bottles of cheap potato vodka and they understand THAT

Ex-husbands in Vietnam tend to be the same way, and my fiancee's ex is no exception.

And I say...... "Thank you God!" Without dumb@ss ex husbands drinking away the world's best women...where would that leave us? LOL

[JeremyandEvelyn 0]

My fiancee lives in Russia. She has a ten year old son. The father pays child support however has not seen child in six years. When contacted to sign letter of permission for son to leave country he refused. What are our options to argue this situation and do we absolutely need this letter? Very disturbing situation to say the least. Would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this subject.

We had the same thing happen ,too. The father was the father but never a husband. He never paid child support, but still had the same rights, minus the responsibility. At first he refused to sign, then he wanted around $3000.00 to sign. Finally my fiancee convinced him to sign through many conversations. This kind of thing is very scary. you can do everything right, but without the permission, the child can't leave the country. This takes worrying to a new level. I truly feel for you. It feels like "checkmate". we considered going to court. Can you prove to a judge that the child will be better off in the US? can you afford fees and bribes? Just keep thinking and brainstorming. My heart is with you all. good luck