Obama's Cairo speech

[alienlovechild 75]

There's a fundamental flaw in your reasoning... you seem to assume that to be a muslim means you are probably a terrorist, which is exactly the stereotyping that Obama was talking about.

Where did you dream that one up because it's nowhere in my post, nowhereman? - how appropriate and fundamentally wrong. I was in Malaysia and Indonesia and met Muslims in the U.S. for years. I didn't stereotype jack as nearly as you stereotyped me without reading what I wrote. Get beyond tropes.

I spent a year in Iraq working directly with muslims & I can tell you from first hand experience most are decent people. Sure they are different & I didn't agree with certain aspects of their culture, but I didn't assume they were terrorists (even though in all likelihood some that I came into contact with were).

Never said Muslims or Iraqis were mostly terrorists.

Who said this?

There was nothing stopping the majority of peace loving moderate Muslims but choose not to do so until they get sick of the violence like the Iraqis did.

Oh yeah, that was me on this thread.

[almaty 19]

Amen brother. it is called diplomacy ffs. This OMG they are the enemy mentality is very Iron Age.

I seriously wish people would just STOP assessing other people's spirituality. Who the FFFF is who (and this is not directed towards Tamara, it's in general) to say so and so is a good x-ian, catholic, buddhist, muslim, etc. How very arrogant and non-spiritual.

I think you need to look at the very top. The Grand Puba himself. Hes the one injecting the spitituality into his speeches. His speech was all about religion not individual people.

Not???

I don't "see" him saying who is a good or a bad Muslim/X-ian/whatever.

Well, I'm willing to say who is a good or bad Muslim/X-ian /whatever.

A good one loves his/her God/Allah. A good one devotes himself to following the precepts. A good one takes care of his family, provides for them honorably. A good one has compassion for the poor and sick and hungry, gives of his time and treasure to charity. A good one respects the fact that all men are brothers, we are all sons and daughters of the same Creator, and that God/Allah put us all here to serve his purpose. A good one thus practices his faith and understands that others have a different faith, a different path in life, and some perhaps choose to serve no God at all, and that this too is part of God's plan for the world. A good one rejoices in these things and finds comfort in this diversity in the world.

A bad one allows his hatred for those different from him to overtake his love of God/Allah. A bad one allows his conviction that only his chosen path is right to allow himself to disdain and resent and hate those who are not on his path. A bad one rationalizes and justifies violence against innocents to overtake the very scriptures of his Holy books "Thou Shalt not kill", says the book. A bad one is capable of rationalizing the murder of a churchgoing doctor in Kansas. A bad one is capable of plowing an airliner into the World Trade Center.

See, I have no problem whatsoever drawing a distinction.

spot on....be excellent to each other ...

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Givem some knee pads he's on a RUN!

Edited June 5, 2009 by ={Rogue}=

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I do not agree with Obama. To the enemies (referring to extremists/terrorists) we will never win them over. Obama spends too much of his time talking about islam and muslims. Muslims are not the only Americans in this country and islam is not the only religion. For someone who says hes a christian, he spends less time talking about christianity as he does islam.

Hes handing America over on a golden plate to our enemies. Do you think the extremists are going to be won over by his speeches? It doesnt matter if he wins over the American people or not, if Extremists dont stop nuking, bombing or beheadhing other people as well as their own, its not going to make a peaceful world!

and from what it seemed like to me, he either didnt talk at all or much about the issues with Iran and N Korea. Muslims Christians, Jews, Buddists, Atheists all are humans on the same level. Terrorism and extremism is on its own level. l

Tamara, you speak as if the Muslim World is our enemy. It's insane, INSANE to believe you can fight a war against extremist views for one, and second, it is short-sighted to believe that you can never change a person's mind about things. What we should be concerned about, which Obama is addressing, are those among the Muslim world who empathize with terrorism as a political tool to achieve a favorable result. If you approach the rest of the human population in this world with the general assumption that we all want the same basic things in life, then you begin to see people beyond religious identity or geography and begin to see they too are your brother and sister.

No, we will never eradicate extremism in this world militarily or any other way, but we can fight the thinking behind it as well as those who empathize with terrorism through diplomacy.

Your wrong, I dont speak as if the muslim world is our enemy, but dont forget that it was muslim extremist on Sept 11th, and time and time again last year that was bombing almost daily their own people in Iraq by suicide bombers. Some people are strumming their own violins to the tune that its us Americans who have a problem with muslims. Its not about that, just try to understand that some of us Americans are tired of extremist or terrorist causing grief daily. They would LOVE to destroy America. And its not Americans jobs to get the Imams in the mosques in the MENA countries to stop teaching hatred toward Israel or America. Its their own jobs. If they want to be a good person, who has a conscience and truly love the GOD that created them and gave them life, then they wouldnt go around preaching death to America to the children 8yrs old. *by the way, I am no way implying that ALL imams and mosques do that, but Im not naive to think that there isnt a good bit of that going on over there either.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I do not agree with Obama. To the enemies (referring to extremists/terrorists) we will never win them over. Obama spends too much of his time talking about islam and muslims. Muslims are not the only Americans in this country and islam is not the only religion. For someone who says hes a christian, he spends less time talking about christianity as he does islam.

Hes handing America over on a golden plate to our enemies. Do you think the extremists are going to be won over by his speeches? It doesnt matter if he wins over the American people or not, if Extremists dont stop nuking, bombing or beheadhing other people as well as their own, its not going to make a peaceful world!

and from what it seemed like to me, he either didnt talk at all or much about the issues with Iran and N Korea. Muslims Christians, Jews, Buddists, Atheists all are humans on the same level. Terrorism and extremism is on its own level. l

Tamara, you speak as if the Muslim World is our enemy. It's insane, INSANE to believe you can fight a war against extremist views for one, and second, it is short-sighted to believe that you can never change a person's mind about things. What we should be concerned about, which Obama is addressing, are those among the Muslim world who empathize with terrorism as a political tool to achieve a favorable result. If you approach the rest of the human population in this world with the general assumption that we all want the same basic things in life, then you begin to see people beyond religious identity or geography and begin to see they too are your brother and sister.

No, we will never eradicate extremism in this world militarily or any other way, but we can fight the thinking behind it as well as those who empathize with terrorism through diplomacy.

Your wrong, I dont speak as if the muslim world is our enemy, but dont forget that it was muslim extremist on Sept 11th, and time and time again last year that was bombing almost daily their own people in Iraq by suicide bombers. Some people are strumming their own violins to the tune that its us Americans who have a problem with muslims. Its not about that, just try to understand that some of us Americans are tired of extremist or terrorist causing grief daily. They would LOVE to destroy America. And its not Americans jobs to get the Imams in the mosques in the MENA countries to stop teaching hatred toward Israel or America. Its their own jobs. If they want to be a good person, who has a conscience and truly love the GOD that created them and gave them life, then they wouldnt go around preaching death to America to the children 8yrs old. *by the way, I am no way implying that ALL imams and mosques do that, but Im not naive to think that there isnt a good bit of that going on over there either.

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

Edited June 5, 2009 by ={Rogue}=

[scandal 951]

Tamara - I respect you for your views. Obviously we are on different sides of the debate here, which is fine. I really admire your forthrightness and plainspoken approach, while being at the same time graceful and respectful towards others. For some reason, many of the discussions I get into on VJ with people on the conservative side of the spectrum are not so mature. I look forward to continuing the discussion with you. However, its' 10:30pm, I just got home from work, haven't had dinner, and don't have the mind for serious discussion now. So if you'll excuse me, I think I'll play with Marc for a bit ...

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Tamara - I respect you for your views. Obviously we are on different sides of the debate here, which is fine. I really admire your forthrightness and plainspoken approach, while being at the same time graceful and respectful towards others. For some reason, many of the discussions I get into on VJ with people on the conservative side of the spectrum are not so mature. I look forward to continuing the discussion with you. However, its' 10:30pm, I just got home from work, haven't had dinner, and don't have the mind for serious discussion now. So if you'll excuse me, I think I'll play with Marc for a bit ...

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Tamara - I respect you for your views. Obviously we are on different sides of the debate here, which is fine. I really admire your forthrightness and plainspoken approach, while being at the same time graceful and respectful towards others. For some reason, many of the discussions I get into on VJ with people on the conservative side of the spectrum are not so mature. I look forward to continuing the discussion with you. However, its' 10:30pm, I just got home from work, haven't had dinner, and don't have the mind for serious discussion now. So if you'll excuse me, I think I'll play with Marc for a bit ...

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

I told you it was fun!! You're hooked.

[scandal 951]

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

week! The flamin' fairy says he has all week!!!

Gee fairyboy I'd love to play wid'ya all week but time's a wastin'!

get on down lover lips :dance:

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Tamara - I respect you for your views. Obviously we are on different sides of the debate here, which is fine. I really admire your forthrightness and plainspoken approach, while being at the same time graceful and respectful towards others. For some reason, many of the discussions I get into on VJ with people on the conservative side of the spectrum are not so mature. I look forward to continuing the discussion with you. However, its' 10:30pm, I just got home from work, haven't had dinner, and don't have the mind for serious discussion now. So if you'll excuse me, I think I'll play with Marc for a bit ...

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

No problem, Im a 27yr old young woman who is on the conservative side and has my own views of the world and openly shares my opinions. I do try to be respectful whether I agree or disagree (something I learned in the home from mom) -mostly bcz i got a backslap from doing otherwise I am passionate about what I believe. Anyone that knows me, knows I would sit even at the table of someone I disagree with or even an enemy. I have family/friends that are muslim, christian, jewish and atheist, democrat, republican... its about respect whether you agree with them or not.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

week! The flamin' fairy says he has all week!!!

Gee fairyboy I'd love to play wid'ya all week but time's a wastin'!

get on down lover lips :dance:

Much better! Give it too him.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

week! The flamin' fairy says he has all week!!!

Gee fairyboy I'd love to play wid'ya all week but time's a wastin'!

get on down lover lips :dance:

Scandal, you really need to practice up. I will give you some slack for now, to save you the embarssment. Keep it up babe! Maybe I will let you touch my feet some day.

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

week! The flamin' fairy says he has all week!!!

Gee fairyboy I'd love to play wid'ya all week but time's a wastin'!

get on down lover lips :dance:

Much better! Give it too him.

Spook the boy is a noob!

Tamara - I respect you for your views. Obviously we are on different sides of the debate here, which is fine. I really admire your forthrightness and plainspoken approach, while being at the same time graceful and respectful towards others. For some reason, many of the discussions I get into on VJ with people on the conservative side of the spectrum are not so mature. I look forward to continuing the discussion with you. However, its' 10:30pm, I just got home from work, haven't had dinner, and don't have the mind for serious discussion now. So if you'll excuse me, I think I'll play with Marc for a bit ...

Tammy, dont try to covince him! he just wants a free ride. He's a fat lil dough boy that wants to live off other ppl's money!

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

Your weekness is overwhelming! It SHOWS!

No problem, Im a 27yr old young woman who is on the conservative side and has my own views of the world and openly shares my opinions. I do try to be respectful whether I agree or disagree (something I learned in the home from mom) -mostly bcz i got a backslap from doing otherwise I am passionate about what I believe. Anyone that knows me, knows I would sit even at the table of someone I disagree with or even an enemy. I have family/friends that are muslim, christian, jewish and atheist, democrat, republican... its about respect whether you agree with them or not.

You really should realize who your dealing with here.

Edited June 5, 2009 by ={Rogue}=

[scandal 951]

hey roqquuueeeeiiieee baaaabbbeeeiiii

let's dance sugarplum fairy

Oh did I say fairy???

Yeah, I did !!! FAIRY!

I told you it was fun!! You're hooked.

Spooky, you're a very bad influence

No problem, Im a 27yr old young woman who is on the conservative side and has my own views of the world and openly shares my opinions. I do try to be respectful whether I agree or disagree (something I learned in the home from mom) -mostly bcz i got a backslap from doing otherwise I am passionate about what I believe. Anyone that knows me, knows I would sit even at the table of someone I disagree with or even an enemy. I have family/friends that are muslim, christian, jewish and atheist, democrat, republican... its about respect whether you agree with them or not.

Very cool. I am Jewish with a Buddhist fiancee, and with friends that are of all shapes & sizes. Um, excuse me... pressing matters await....

Scandal, you really need to practice up. I will give you some slack for now, to save you the embarssment. Keep it up babe! Maybe I will let you touch my feet some day.

Spook the boy is a noob!

:devil: :devil: Yeeeeesssssssss SCANDAL in the house . And a n00000bbbbb he be , oh boy!

I take pride in my n00bnezzz it's what keeps me sharp and on my toes.

You don't have the luxury of being a n00b. You just wish you could be a n00b. You're just an old fart pissing in the wind trying to remember your glory days. Um, scratch that. You never had no glory, boy!

[nowhereman 1]

There's a fundamental flaw in your reasoning... you seem to assume that to be a muslim means you are probably a terrorist, which is exactly the stereotyping that Obama was talking about.

Where did you dream that one up because it's nowhere in my post, nowhereman? - how appropriate and fundamentally wrong. I was in Malaysia and Indonesia and met Muslims in the U.S. for years. I didn't stereotype jack as nearly as you stereotyped me without reading what I wrote. Get beyond tropes.

I spent a year in Iraq working directly with muslims & I can tell you from first hand experience most are decent people. Sure they are different & I didn't agree with certain aspects of their culture, but I didn't assume they were terrorists (even though in all likelihood some that I came into contact with were).

Never said Muslims or Iraqis were mostly terrorists.

Who said this?

There was nothing stopping the majority of peace loving moderate Muslims but choose not to do so until they get sick of the violence like the Iraqis did.

Oh yeah, that was me on this thread.

QUOTE

Obama said it was part of his responsibilities as president "to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear."

He can't speak louder than the actions of Muslims themselves.

- Case in point: You are lumping all muslims into one category.

QUOTE

he explained his plan to withdraw American combat troops next year and his reversal of Bush-era policies in the pursuit of terrorists that have enraged Muslims the world over.

What reversal? The surge enabled conditions for a drawdown long before Obama took office.

- The surge isn't the real issue; the real issue is whether or not there was actionable intelligence (not trumped up intel) to invade Iraq in the first place. Moreover the surge wasn't Bush's idea at all... I'm pretty sure it was Powell & Shinseki (back in 2003) who had this idea & the Bush cronies ostracized them.

QUOTE

Obama said flatly that he has banned torture and will close the detested Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba next year.

Ho hum. Wonder if the Arabs will close all their resort-like prisons or stop widespread human rights abuses before, during and after Gitmo.

- A mute point... we need to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard (e.g. Geneva convention). Just because our enemies violate human rights doesn't give us the green light to do the same.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I take pride in my n00bnezzz it's what keeps me sharp and on my toes.

You don't have the luxury of being a n00b. You just wish you could be a n00b. You're just an old fart pissing in the wind trying to remember your glory days. Um, scratch that. You never had no glory, boy!

Oh my! Those training wheels are quite rusty. Your palms are soft and your words speak of, a day when your life DEPENDS on another. Live your LIFE! not of mine! But of your OWN!

An adult thats seeks a babtsitter?

Edited June 5, 2009 by ={Rogue}=