Staying in the USA while her Canadian PR paperwork goes through?

[Jacob D. 0]

*** I accidentally posted this in the wrong section, so I am re-posting it here :-)

Hello,

We are planning on getting married August 1 in MI. The plan is to live in BC, but for a variety of reasons, we would like to live in MI while her paperwork goes through for her PR in Canada. One of the reasons is that she is working and couldn't derive income from Canada, and I am going to be doing school full-time during that period. However, since I am taking courses from the University of Wales via correspondence, it doesn't really make sense to have neither of us working. Further complicating things is that since she hasn't visited 'my side' very much, we wanted to spend a few weeks in Canada before heading down there. I guess we could jettison this plan if it is necessary, but we would really like it. We are considering a religious wedding before the honeymoon, and having a 'legal' ceremony when we return to the US, but I'm not sure if that is legal or wise - but it is an option.

I will be leaving all of my furniture and most of my books up here, so there won't be issues at the border like that, I don't think. Since I'm not working, studying, or really doing much of anything as far as the government is concerned, what are my options to stay down there for the 6-9 mo. it takes?

Thanks,

Jacob

PS - before someone says something, I know this is a bit late to be asking. She had an immigration lawyer friend (she's a lawyer herself) who said he would help us and he sort of bailed on us. She's busy with the wedding planning, so I'm trying to figure it out!

[Krikit 1,165]

Phew. This one's a bit hard to decipher. Tell me if I've got this right:

• You are the Canadian living in Canada.
• She is a US citizen living in the US.
• You want to visit her in MI and get married.
• Or are you marrying, then going to Canada for a few weeks, then going back to MI for a bit?
• She will emigrate to Canada.

Following some clarification we can help. I'm going to move this thread to the Canada Forum since you're not actually applying for a K-1 visa.

Welcome to VJ, Jacob.

[thetreble 19]

We can definitely help if you lay things out a lot more clearly, Jacob, as Krikit said. I'm a bit confused myself here.

What is it that you want to do, exactly? Is she immigrating to Canada or are you immigration to the US?

Regardless, most of us would recommend you do not stay in the US any longer than 6 months within a 12 month period.

[Jacob D. 0]

Phew. This one's a bit hard to decipher. Tell me if I've got this right:

• You are the Canadian living in Canada.
• She is a US citizen living in the US.
• You want to visit her in MI and get married.
• Or are you marrying, then going to Canada for a few weeks, then going back to MI for a bit?
• She will emigrate to Canada.

Following some clarification we can help. I'm going to move this thread to the Canada Forum since you're not actually applying for a K-1 visa.

Welcome to VJ, Jacob.

You have points 1+2 right.

[*]Or are you marrying, then going to Canada for a few weeks, then going back to MI for a bit?

This is correct. Our current schedule looks like this:

August 1, Wedding

August 2-17, Honeymoon in US

August 17-September 14, Honeymoon and visit in Canada

September 15, BOTH return to MI; where she will pick up at work and I will be doing school. We will apply for her PR outside of the country because it is faster and she will be able to work in the meantime.

May-June 2010, pack up a U-haul and come up to BC

I guess what I am looking for is if I am able to come in on a non-immigrant visa rather than having to go the K- or V-1 route, because a) I don't think we have the time, and B) I don't intend on making USA may permanent home. However, I don't want to get kicked out or banned, obviously, because we will most likely be doing extensive travel during the course of our marriage. I may at some point apply for PR status in the States, but we didn't think it would be wise to have both of our applications for each other's countries at the same time.

Is it possible to come into the US and apply to stay once we are married? Or, make a quick border run and re-enter (we'll be in MI)? Like I said previously, if anyone thinks we should change our plans to make things easier, that would be fine! I don't know why I am stuck figuring this out when she is the lawyer - I guess she didn't trust me to pick out the colours for the wedding! I find it all rather confusing

Hope that clarifies things, thanks for all your help.

[Krikit 1,165]

Your biggest hurdle is going to be trying to convince Customs & Border Protection that you are not entering the US with the intention to stay without going through the immigration process. Your first speedbump will be trying to cross for your wedding. Your second will be trying to re-enter after you have married. (Please see the link in my signature for visitation FAQ's.)

Your third speedbump is the significant amount of time you intend on staying in the US. Canadians are allowed up to 180 days. You are planning for longer than that. There is no CBP Officer on the planet who will let you in under those conditions. Sorry.

[thetreble 19]

Your biggest hurdle is going to be trying to convince Customs & Border Protection that you are not entering the US with the intention to stay without going through the immigration process. Your first speedbump will be trying to cross for your wedding. Your second will be trying to re-enter after you have married. (Please see the link in my signature for visitation FAQ's.)

Your third speedbump is the significant amount of time you intend on staying in the US. Canadians are allowed up to 180 days. You are planning for longer than that. There is no CBP Officer on the planet who will let you in under those conditions. Sorry.

Yup.

Again, you want to do something that is not legally possible when it comes to immigration. Immigration rules aren't set out to fit your needs, your needs must fit the immigration rules. Any person can't go to a country, any country, for as long as they want and peg it down as they don't intend on staying there forever. That's not really how it works.

You say you don't have time, well immigration takes a lot of time no matter which way you do it. If you aren't prepared for the amount of time it takes to do it legally, than I'm not really sure what to tell ya.

If you want to get married, get married. But then go back to both y our places of residence, and apply for the CR-1. You are just going to have to wait it out like the rest of us. If the only reason you need to go to Michigan is because you don't want to be without her, then I'd stay where you are and go through the process. Again, you can get married as soon as you want, but as soon as you step over that border into Michigan and plan to stay longer than 5 or 6 months, in the eyes of the law you are intending to immigrate there (even if you aren't...)

[Jacob D. 0]

Your biggest hurdle is going to be trying to convince Customs & Border Protection that you are not entering the US with the intention to stay without going through the immigration process. Your first speedbump will be trying to cross for your wedding. Your second will be trying to re-enter after you have married. (Please see the link in my signature for visitation FAQ's.)

Your third speedbump is the significant amount of time you intend on staying in the US. Canadians are allowed up to 180 days. You are planning for longer than that. There is no CBP Officer on the planet who will let you in under those conditions. Sorry.

What if we were to apply for the K-1, and I could 'visit' her while the application goes through, and then once it comes exit the country, re-enter, and then get legally married. Would our timeframe allow for that, and would the Customs Officers allow for that? Of course, if it comes before then, I would use it to enter on our trip back from Canada. Am I being hopelessly naive to think we could get the K-1 process done in 3 months?

One of the reasons we will be in Canada is because I already have a business, including a large woodworking shop with many expensive tools that would be next to impossible to move. If I can document that I have strong ties or a letter of intent with a party out here to enter into a business relationship in 2010, would this count toward proving I have intention to move back?

[Krikit 1,165]

What if we were to apply for the K-1, and I could 'visit' her while the application goes through, and then once it comes exit the country, re-enter, and then get legally married. Would our timeframe allow for that, and would the Customs Officers allow for that? Of course, if it comes before then, I would use it to enter on our trip back from Canada. Am I being hopelessly naive to think we could get the K-1 process done in 3 months?

Yes. The K-1 visa will not work with your circumstances. You are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that you are not going to be able to live together in the US while awaiting PR status for Canada.

One of the reasons we will be in Canada is because I already have a business, including a large woodworking shop with many expensive tools that would be next to impossible to move. If I can document that I have strong ties or a letter of intent with a party out here to enter into a business relationship in 2010, would this count toward proving I have intention to move back?

It would be evidence but I doubt it would carry much weight. The date is too far into the future. They're looking for something along the lines of commitments of about two weeks into the future. Do some searching in this forum. You'll find more than a few horror stories of people who were refused entry..... even with more compelling evidence than you have.

[thetreble 19]

K-1 is a one time entry Visa. You can't go back and forth with it. You get it, you use it to the USA and it's over. You must then apply for AOS to immigrate to America after that.

The K-1 process takes way more than three months.

There is no tourist visa for Canadians to go to the USA. There is just an unwritten, 6 month rule. You can visit during a visa process how ever much you'd like, as long as it doesn't exceed ridiculous amounts of time.

[SapphireDreams 71]

Your one major problem is that you cannot stay in the US longer than 6 months out of a 12 month period. And, even then saying you are going to the US for 6 months will cause a red flag with a border guard.

No one wants to do this waiting apart, but sadly, that's what a lot of people are forced to do.

You can always come for long 2-3 month visits with a month or two break inbetween to break it up a bit while you wait. That would probably be the most legal and relatively low risk option. You'll still be apart part of the time, but it would probably be more bearable.

[Jacob D. 0]

Your biggest hurdle is going to be trying to convince Customs & Border Protection that you are not entering the US with the intention to stay without going through the immigration process. Your first speedbump will be trying to cross for your wedding. Your second will be trying to re-enter after you have married. (Please see the link in my signature for visitation FAQ's.)

Your third speedbump is the significant amount of time you intend on staying in the US. Canadians are allowed up to 180 days. You are planning for longer than that. There is no CBP Officer on the planet who will let you in under those conditions. Sorry.

Yup.

Again, you want to do something that is not legally possible when it comes to immigration. Immigration rules aren't set out to fit your needs, your needs must fit the immigration rules. Any person can't go to a country, any country, for as long as they want and peg it down as they don't intend on staying there forever. That's not really how it works.

You say you don't have time, well immigration takes a lot of time no matter which way you do it. If you aren't prepared for the amount of time it takes to do it legally, than I'm not really sure what to tell ya.

If you want to get married, get married. But then go back to both y our places of residence, and apply for the CR-1. You are just going to have to wait it out like the rest of us. If the only reason you need to go to Michigan is because you don't want to be without her, then I'd stay where you are and go through the process. Again, you can get married as soon as you want, but as soon as you step over that border into Michigan and plan to stay longer than 5 or 6 months, in the eyes of the law you are intending to immigrate there (even if you aren't...)

If we only stay for six months, then I would be OK, from what I gather. The nine months would only be 'nice' in terms of school schedule, but isn't absolutely necessary. Or will I have a lot of trouble even if my intention is to only stay six months and move back with her to Canada?

[Jacob D. 0]

Thanks for all of your help, everyone. I really appreciate it. I guess things aren't as easy as I'd like them to be!

[thetreble 19]

It's so hard to say, Jacob. This rule is kinda obscure. It's really all up to the CBP USBP officers. If they feel you are spending too much time in one country, and it appears you are immigrating, they may refuse you entry even if your intention is not to do so.

Whatever you decide to do, if she files for PR in Canada you can go visit her a lot, just not as much as you are probably thinking.

I wouldn't stay a solid 6 months, but that is just my opinion. People have done it and been okay, some people have done it and gotten refused re-entry to the US after that. It's really up to you.

[SapphireDreams 71]

It's so hard to say, Jacob. This rule is kinda obscure. It's really all up to the CBP USBP officers. If they feel you are spending too much time in one country, and it appears you are immigrating, they may refuse you entry even if your intention is not to do so.

Whatever you decide to do, if she files for PR in Canada you can go visit her a lot, just not as much as you are probably thinking.

I wouldn't stay a solid 6 months, but that is just my opinion. People have done it and been okay, some people have done it and gotten refused re-entry to the US after that. It's really up to you.

Just to add to what theTreble is saying, if you ever do go through US immigration, you'll need to list all your visits to the US and how long they were. This is where having an overstay could potentially hurt you. They will see that you stayed over 6 months and this could cause you to need a waiver or get banned. I mean nothing is for sure, because the rules are a bit obscure, but it's one of those things that's not worth the risk if you ask me.

[thetreble 19]

Exactly. If you love her, which I'm sure you do, don't take the risks. A long distance relationship is hard enough without adding refused entries in!