What I don't understand...

[scandal 951]

Personally, I couldn't imagine trying to have a relationship with someone that doesn't speak my language, but that's why I chose a partner that did speak English.

I also know that everybody isn't like me, so I just figure.... live and let live.

Canadians speak English? I thought they spoke French.

All Canadian provinces have english as their official language except Quebec, which official language is "French" On a joking note, we like to say in France that they try to speak french, but we love these guys and their sweet accents Canadians girls are very popular with the French men

I was being a smart a$$. Vive Quebec libre.

stfu You know better than that Scott!

Actually, the federal government and New Brunswick are the only officially bilingual governments in Canada.

Quebec (with the infamous Bill 101 and other legislation) is the only officially unilingual province (French only) - in which it is ILLEGAL to put up a sign on your place of business in the English language. Language fascism is what it is, you can be fined if you dare put up a sign in both English and French even if the majority of your clientele is English speaking.

Other provinces which have significant French speaking populations, including Ontario, Alberta, Nova Scotia and PEI, are effectively bilingual in that all government services are offered in both languages. I grew up in Ottawa, the federal capital which is in Ontario right on the Ontario/Quebec border and which is approximately 30% Francophone. It's as fully bilingual in virtually any sense that you can conceive of. Cross the river into Hull (now renamed Gatineau... why? Because "Hull" is much too English sounding), and go look for a trace of English on a street sign, a commercial billboard, or a government office.

[La Souris 19]

Quebec (with the infamous Bill 101 and other legislation) is the only officially unilingual province (French only) - in which it is ILLEGAL to put up a sign on your place of business in the English language. Language fascism is what it is, you can be fined if you dare put up a sign in both English and French even if the majority of your clientele is English speaking.

Wrong. But, I don't think it's the place to debate the 101 here

... and, I don't need ESL, I need Bostonian classes

Edited June 8, 2009 by La Souris

[scandal 951]

Quebec (with the infamous Bill 101 and other legislation) is the only officially unilingual province (French only) - in which it is ILLEGAL to put up a sign on your place of business in the English language. Language fascism is what it is, you can be fined if you dare put up a sign in both English and French even if the majority of your clientele is English speaking.

Wrong. But, I don't think it's the place to debate the 101 here

... and, I don't need ESL, I need Bostonian classes

You are correct that the current law as of 1993 allows English or other languages on commercial signs only if the French lettering is "predominant" .

This was enacted in Bill 86 in 1993 by Bourassa only grudgingly after the Canadian Supreme Court and the UN Human Rights Committee condemned the original provisions of Bill 101.

From 1977-1993 what I wrote was entirely correct - English and all languages other than French were entirely banned from commercial signs in the province.

Hence I retract my original wording "in which it is ILLEGAL..." and replace it with " .. in which it WAS illegal from 1977-1993".

I note that the thrust of my statement remains correct to this very day: Anglophones and allophones who have lived in Quebec for generations are not able to freely educate their children or promote their places of business in their native tongue. Nowhere else that I can think of, including US states that have declared English as their official language, is that true. Taco shops may have lettering solely in Spanish, Chinese restaurants have strictly or predominantly Chinese lettering, all entirely legally throughout 50 US states and 9 Canadian provinces. Only in one jurisdiction in North America is this illegal.

Regardless of the legality of Quebec's language laws, there can be no doubt whatsoever that it caused an exodus of English speakers from the province, along with jobs, companies and the associated economic output. And, it has poisoned the relations between Quebec and the rest of Canada and fueled resentment between them. And all for what? So the fish and chips shop should be called "poisson et frites"?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bill101/

Language played a major role in the defeat of Bourassa's Liberals in 1976 and the election of Quebec's first separatist government. In the summer of 1977, the Parti Québécois government, under the leadership of René Lévesque, passed Bill 101 – the Charter of the French Language.

Within that bill was the declaration that French was to be the only language allowed on commercial signs in the province. With few exceptions, the use of English was banned.

On the education front, English was to be restricted mostly to those already in the system, their siblings, those temporarily posted in Quebec, or children whose parents had received an English elementary education in the province. (Eventually that regulation was relaxed to allow children of people educated in English in Canada access to English schools.)

Many retailers were upset by the new law. Morton Brownstein, owner of a Montreal shoe store, took his case all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. In 1988, the court said that English could not be prohibited altogether, but that requiring the predominance of French on commercial signs was a reasonable limit on freedom of expression.

The public reaction in Quebec was swift and forceful. Confronted with the angry demonstrations of those defending Bill 101, Robert Bourassa – back from the political wasteland for his second tour as premier by then – came up with a compromise. Invoking the "notwithstanding" clause to override the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Bourassa introduced Bill 178. It decreed that only French could be used on exterior signs while English would be allowed inside commercial establishments.

But in the provincial election of 1989, four members of the new English rights Equality party were elected to the National Assembly. And in 1993, the United Nations Human Rights Committee ruled that Quebec's sign laws broke an international covenant on civil and political rights. "A State may choose one or more official languages," the committee wrote, "but it may not exclude outside the spheres of public life, the freedom to express oneself in a certain language."

Reacting to these events, Bourassa, in 1993, introduced Bill 86, which allowed English on outdoor commercial signs only if the French lettering was at least twice as large as the English.

[Mononoke28 135]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

This has got to be one the stupidest questions I've read here on VJ. And I say one because there's a long string of them and yet, this one is way up there with the worst.

But I'll amuse you with an answer. One option is that the petitioner and the beneficiary speak the same foreign language, so English was never needed to communicate in the first place.

Ever thought of that? Obviously not.

And like you previously said... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diana

[trillium13 84]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

This has got to be one the stupidest questions I've read here on VJ. And I say one because there's a long string of them and yet, this one is way up there with the worst.

But I'll amuse you with an answer. One option is that the petitioner and the beneficiary speak the same foreign language, so English was never needed to communicate in the first place.

Ever thought of that? Obviously not.

And like you previously said... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diana

You missed the point.

[Kar98 0]

But I'll amuse you with an answer. One option is that the petitioner and the beneficiary speak the same foreign language, so English was never needed to communicate in the first place.

Ever thought of that? Obviously not.

Lack of reading comprehension much?

couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

[baron555 934]

Does anybody know what a Kar 98 is?

The poster is a troll. Plain and simple. What language do you speak?

[scandal 951]

Does anybody know what a Kar 98 is?

The poster is a troll. Plain and simple. What language do you speak?

Well of course he is. If you've seen his other threads -- who can forget the mesmerizing "life is marvelous in Texas -- you suck eggs if you live anywhere else" --that is patently obvious.

But that doesn't mean we can't have fun on the thread anyway. Threads have a way of taking on a life of their own regardless of what the OP intends.

Just coz he's the OP don't make him king of the mountain (though of course he thinks he is).

I'm all for going back to discussing Quebec's language laws, if anyone's game (no offense, soeur souris)

[Kar98 0]

Does anybody know what a Kar 98 is?

I've got three

[Susita 175]

Does anybody know what a Kar 98 is?

The poster is a troll. Plain and simple. What language do you speak?

Well of course he is. If you've seen his other threads -- who can forget the mesmerizing "life is marvelous in Texas -- you suck eggs if you live anywhere else" --that is patently obvious.

But that doesn't mean we can't have fun on the thread anyway. Threads have a way of taking on a life of their own regardless of what the OP intends.

Just coz he's the OP don't make him king of the mountain (though of course he thinks he is).

I'm all for going back to discussing Quebec's language laws, if anyone's game (no offense, soeur souris)

If we rub his belly will he grant us a wish?

Or is he one of those ugly, stupid trolls?

[La Souris 19]

Does anybody know what a Kar 98 is?

The poster is a troll. Plain and simple. What language do you speak?

Well of course he is. If you've seen his other threads -- who can forget the mesmerizing "life is marvelous in Texas -- you suck eggs if you live anywhere else" --that is patently obvious.

But that doesn't mean we can't have fun on the thread anyway. Threads have a way of taking on a life of their own regardless of what the OP intends.

Just coz he's the OP don't make him king of the mountain (though of course he thinks he is).

I'm all for going back to discussing Quebec's language laws, if anyone's game (no offense, soeur souris)

Absolutely no offense

Not sure I have time to discuss the matter right now though...

[Azzudiin 26]

ESL as taught in foreign countries is not the same as english taught in America. the version taught in china is so different, that it's called "chinglish" (factoid: there are more english teachers in china than all the rest of the world combined, and less than 1% actually speak the language fluently and correctly). many people who claim to be able to speak english are nearly unintelligeable. also, it is common for people to be able to speak effectively, but to be unable to write well and to have trouble reading.

Actually a large majority of English Teachers in China are actually Russian and English is second language. I speak Chinese (yes rarity, caucasian middle class american who speaks chinese) so I actually went to several English Schools in Chongqing to find a good school for my fiance and was shocked at the instructors in these schools. Some of the schools with worldwide affliations and that charge a fortune. The school we settled on had 2 instructors from Australia that actually started the school in Chongqing and teach all the classes themselves. I figured Australian English would be better to learn then broken English from someone that I would not even consider half-way fluent. They also charged half the price of the big "name brand" schools.

[Mononoke28 135]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

This has got to be one the stupidest questions I've read here on VJ. And I say one because there's a long string of them and yet, this one is way up there with the worst.

But I'll amuse you with an answer. One option is that the petitioner and the beneficiary speak the same foreign language, so English was never needed to communicate in the first place.

Ever thought of that? Obviously not.

And like you previously said... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diana

You missed the point.

Unless the topic was changed into something else in the 6+ pages that I chose not to read. But based on the OP, whether it was submitted by a troll or not, then no I did not.

And yes, it was a stupid question, asked with belittling arrogance which is why I didn't care for it.

Diana

[trillium13 84]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

This has got to be one the stupidest questions I've read here on VJ. And I say one because there's a long string of them and yet, this one is way up there with the worst.

But I'll amuse you with an answer. One option is that the petitioner and the beneficiary speak the same foreign language, so English was never needed to communicate in the first place.

Ever thought of that? Obviously not.

And like you previously said... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diana

You missed the point.

Unless the topic was changed into something else in the 6+ pages that I chose not to read. But based on the OP, whether it was submitted by a troll or not, then no I did not.

And yes, it was a stupid question, asked with belittling arrogance which is why I didn't care for it.

Diana

Said before, in one of my previous posts. Nowhere in the OP did it say that everyone needs to speak English. The question asked, how do people who don't communicate in a common language fall in love in the first place, and how do they make a marriage work? The real trolls here are those who decide to twist the original question so as to be able to read something into it to complain about.

[Completely 3]

i just think that this post make sense.

For me, I dont have any problem when I married my husband as English is our second language in the Philippines. I was working for a foreign company in the Middle East when we met. So language is not a problem at all.

Sometimes you dont choose the person you love, you will just feel that he/she holds a special place in your heart. Now, as far as to make the relationship work, they need to do what they have to do in order to make it work..

Look at the deaf person, I know several couple that are deaf and married for 15 years, they dont talk at all but they can communicate through their feelings.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Completely