What I don't understand...

[^KK^ 3]

OK. Next.

Oh please put me on your ignore list.

Pretty pretty pretty please.

All the cool kids get to be ignored by you

[DaleandPat 0]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

I think that is a legitimate question. I know others have pointed out that the requirement is not to love, but to marry. Ok, maybe that is true, but still what about the communication as you have pointed out. At least so often today other people in the world learn English more from written English than spoken. I believe that love is important and the marriage is a contract. So both need to understand enough about what this visa is all about and the marriage. The American Government is trying to avoid a convenience marriage. They want to be sure the foriegn national is not being cohersed, so both really should be able to talk. Also one requirement of the visa is to have a relationship. It is hard to have a relationship unless the couple can communicate.

I do not understand everything my fiancee says, but when we use text such as as messenger service there is not a problem. I have to agree with you I think this is about love and finding the love of you life. I found the love of my life thousands of miles away.

[vny 0]

It's not a legal requirement for permanent residency, it's up to whoever think would benefit from such classes. I meant "has to do" in the sense of "needs to do something, or there's no chance of social interaction or career"

Oh, okay, thanks. Just wanted to make sure, because like I was saying, she speaks passable English and I can understand/speak some Japanese, but I'll leave it up to her if she wants to take more ESL classes when she gets here.

[vny 0]

It's not a legal requirement for permanent residency, it's up to whoever think would benefit from such classes. I meant "has to do" in the sense of "needs to do something, or there's no chance of social interaction or career"

Oh, okay, thanks. Just wanted to make sure, because like I was saying, she speaks passable English and I can understand/speak some Japanese, but I'll leave it up to her if she wants to take more ESL classes when she gets here.

Sorry had to ask. Didn't think that would be legal requirement, but just wanted to make sure. Can't tell with all the BS we've been going through with all this immigration stuff and wouldn't put it pass them to make some other ridiculous rule/regulation.

But to answer your original question, what I think you're getting at anyway, is like what I've been telling my wife, that we need to keep communicating to make our marriage work. So if it is a "real" marriage ("real" may be the wrong word but...I think you would understand what I mean), I would think that communication is a must.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

they fall in love by all the yahoo smileys ok ok, just kidding...

my husband and I met online in 2005. He speaks arabic, english and alittle french. His english was understandable but some words *nouns/verbs were out of place. Over time speaking to each other everyday his english improved and now that its 2009 and hes been here 1 1/2 he speaks more properly than I do at times. However, if he wanted to go to college he might need to take official english classes, but for conversating with people hes just like the rest of us.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

It's true that this would be a good time to sue the HEAVEN out of yourself, because you'd probably win.

[Shad and Dani 3]

there are a couple of americans that actually speak other languages.

maybe they communicate in the beneficiaries language.

Well Spoken!!!!

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

It's true that this would be a good time to sue the HEAVEN out of yourself, because you'd probably win.

that was a good one!

[toddandhien 2]

First, English classes are not only for people who can't speak English. There are many classes that are geared toward people who speak "some" English, but would like to become much more proficient so they can engage in discussion with many Americans other than their SO. She and I communicate verbally and in writing just fine but she wants to keep improving.

And second, after reading posts on VJ for a year, I can tell you that many Americans struggle considerably with English, as well...sometimes it is painful to read.

At least my fiancee knows that she is not an English expert and is very anxious to improve her written and spoken language skills. She was insistent that she wait until she got here to get into advanced classes because Vietnamese teaching other Vietnamese how to speak English does not make one a better speaker. She wants to be able to listen to and speak with Americans.

I am not insulted by the OP's post, but I do find it somewhat narrow-minded and ill-intended.

[HWANG0926 0]

first of all, you can fall in love with someone without being able to communicate 100% fluently in eachother's language.

sure, i'm Chinese American, I speak English & Chinese but my fiance is Korean, he speaks some english (heavy accent) but he has studied in the UK so, we are able to communicate in english.

in the beginning, it was almost impossible to explain something in english without using the internet.... but we learned.... i mean because you want to make this relationship work so YOU LEARN! Eventually I realize that i'm speaking POOR english to accommodate his understanding skills. I can't speak to him likewise to talking to a friend. I have to just carefully select my words and slow down when i speak.

now, we are able to communicate just fine =) there are times that we become frustrated because we can't seem to find the perfect understanding ~ especially when we have an argument. but .... again, i think our love is much stronger than to be defeated by our language barriers.

I totally DO NOT agree with that studying english & not being able to communicate with your fiance/fiancee --is a serious problem in one's relationship--

[Susita 175]

In addition... what comforts me to see on here (as it gives me hope for when I finally start to K1 process) is when people with such a terrible grasp of the English language get granted Visas to enter into a marriage and set up residence in a mainly English speaking country. How the HELL (there's that term again! ) are they expecting to be a credit to the country they're becoming a part of?!? If they can get in and pass the interviews etc... then there's hope for anyone.

Ummm.... my husband is from Peru and his English is ehh... but he's trying and goes to a community college for ESL here. And that was HIS choice. He has been able to find a job, communicate with his bosses, our neighbors, friends, etc. It hasn't been easy for him but he's done it.

I could just as easily moved to Peru (Im a native Spanish speaker) but I'm a proud American and wanted to raise my children in the US.

When my family moved here to NY they didn't speak English either! And they didn't come as someone's husband or wife, they came on a boat as immigrants, like millions of other immigrants to NYC. They raised their children to speak English and worked hard to provide a better life for their children. New York City is an immigrant-created community.

I don't think my husband is not a "credit" to this country just because of his native language. He works hard, pays taxes, pays tuition to a state institution... uhmmm isn't that good enough?

So c'mon, really?

[trillium13 84]

Been reading a lot of posts here where the first thing the foreign spouse has to do after arriving is to attend English classes.

Now don't get me wrong, but how in the HELL does one fall in love when the couple can't even communicate with each other in a common language AND both partners live hundreds or thousands of miles away?

I don't think the intent of the OP was, "why isn't everyone speaking English in this country?" or "how can couples communicate if they don't both speak English?" Yes, English was referenced, but since that is the primary language of most Americans, it's the one most discussed on this board, as the one most newcomers learn.

It's an interesting question to me too, and some have answered it quite nicely. Since communication is essential to a marriage, I have also wondered how people who come from 2 different backgrounds, and primary languages, are able to communicate with each other effectively, regardless of what language they are speaking.

It was a simple question, and an interesting one. I think sometimes people offend too easily. It's easy to read intention into a post on the internet, that may have been meant a totally different way.

[trillium13 84]

a. Not everyone here is in love. The requirements for a visa are marriage, or intention of marriage. Nobody said anything about love. There are many people who for private reasons of their own want to form a relationship where "love" isn't necessarily a part of it. Not my thing, mind you. But I don't judge.

I want to understand this. If someone isn't marrying for love, what are they marrying for? I know everyone has their reasons, but I think that love needs to be a big part of it. Maybe that's just me.

Also, don't you eventually have to "prove" that your marriage is bona fide? Am I being naive to think that love isn't a part of that? Anyone can marry and get joint bank accounts and joint health insurance and file taxes together, but if that was the only basis for a "bona fide" marriage, I don't think the USCIS officers would be wanting to see things like pictures of the happy couple, or letters they have written to each other, things like that.

[scandal 951]

a. Not everyone here is in love. The requirements for a visa are marriage, or intention of marriage. Nobody said anything about love. There are many people who for private reasons of their own want to form a relationship where "love" isn't necessarily a part of it. Not my thing, mind you. But I don't judge.

I want to understand this. If someone isn't marrying for love, what are they marrying for? I know everyone has their reasons, but I think that love needs to be a big part of it. Maybe that's just me.

Also, don't you eventually have to "prove" that your marriage is bona fide? Am I being naive to think that love isn't a part of that? Anyone can marry and get joint bank accounts and joint health insurance and file taxes together, but if that was the only basis for a "bona fide" marriage, I don't think the USCIS officers would be wanting to see things like pictures of the happy couple, or letters they have written to each other, things like that.

As an obvious example, think of all the arranged marriages in which bride and groom do not even meet each other until their wedding day - did they marry for love? Of course not! No doubt in many cases they are told by their parents that they will "learn" to love. In many cases these marriages turn out successfully - who knows, maybe father does know best?

Throughout history, people have married for reasons other than love. Royal and political dynasties have married their sons and daughters to each other in order to keep power in the family.

From a more practical perspective, some couples marry for economic reasons. And some couples marry out of a sense of sheer loneliness and wanting companionship.

Am I condoning or suggesting this basis for marriage? Certainly not for me! I would never marry for such reasons. But I recognize that everyone has their own needs and everyone meets them in their own way. I don't judge others as long as no laws are broken, no one is being coerced, no minors are involved.

Are such non-loving marriages bona fide? By the standards of USCIS - I think they are. None of the immigration forms ask "do you love your partner?". The government is not out to judge "love". They are looking for sincerity and commitment and permanence. If a couple has married for economic reasons, in which one partner can offer the other an improved standard of living in exchange for companionship and friendship - but they are sincere in making that relationship long lasting, that meets the letter of the law insofar as immigration requirements. At least, that is my understanding.

[Anh map 2,098]

Loaded questions tend to draw a lot of return fire.

Regarding immigration, there have been cases here on VJ (and others I know of anecdotaly) where visa petitions have been denied because the CO did not see where the couple could communicate in a common language.

Couples (let's exclude the arranged marriages for the moment) figure out a way to communicate through whatever is the most convenient common language. Once the immigrant arrives in the US they may choose to / need to enhance their english skills for personal, educational, or professional reasons. That being said, there have been ethnic enclaves in the US throughout history where non english speakers have coped very well.