American capitalism gone with a whimper

[SMOKE 1,426]

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

i wouldn't worry too much about the gov't owning GM very long. from what i understand, speaking w/ people in the industry (owners of GM dealerships). the plan is for GM to pay back the gov't loans asap-between 6 months to 2 years. at that point, GM will be back on the open market as a new or IPO (Initial Public Offering) stock & no longer owned by the US gov't.

[scandal 951]

The Stimulus Bill hasn't prevented anything - the money hasn't even been spent yet!

Total $5,054,512,268

Which is, what, 0.6%?

That was one sample state - Illinois.

In our great land we have ...

Fifty Nifty United States from thirteen original colonies,

Shout 'em, scout 'em, Tell all about 'em, ...

The breakdowns for the other 49 states are on recovery.org as well.

Anyway, your argument is that the money hasn't been spent yet. (a) significant sums have been spent, and are being spent (b ) the idea is not to just toss money out the window, but to spend in a purposeful and constructive way over the next several years.

[pedroh 21]

so for the gm owners, how does it feel to own a socialist product?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

the American decent into Marxism is happening

It really isn't you know...

If anyone would recognize the signs it would be someone that has already been there.

I have and I don't see it.

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

Naive? How about you trying to build an argument on your little pile of sheer ignorance on the issue?

Clearly, you haven't been there and simply don't know what it looked like.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[mawilson 2,133]

Anyway, your argument is that the money hasn't been spent yet. (a) significant sums have been spent, and are being spent (b ) the idea is not to just toss money out the window, but to spend in a purposeful and constructive way over the next several years.

My argument was that so little was spent, it had nothing to do with the (illusion of) recovery.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Why do you hate Europe?

Because I actually had to live there?

me too!

[mRx 16]

The reason why Obama took over GM and Citigroup is because had we let these huge corporations fail, the repercussions would have thrown this country into a deep Depression.

Not true. When huge corporations fail, their assets do not disappear in a puff of magical smoke. They're bid away to more productive sectors. So while the direction of the company undoubtedly changes, the repercussions would be merely a structural reorganizing of a company into one capable of creating a product that there is a profitable market for.

If there is any indication for you that the Libertarian viewpoint of allowing markets to truly be free from any governmental oversight, this would be it. Corporations have become too big to fail, thanks to the dismantling of regulations that prevented it before.

This is nonsense, Steven, as I've pointed out above.

Paper money, created by Federal Government, and pushed into the economy are to blame for this (and every) recession. Even in ancient times, recessions occured--Kings monopolized gold production and inflated it (by mixing it with other metals). I'm baffled that thousands of years later, this fact is still disputed. I'm sure even back then, ancient royal parties demanded more power from the citizenry to regulate the problem they created.

The Fed will be handling GM long enough to broker a deal with another company like what the FDIC is doing with banks that have failed. It's not pretty but considering the consequences if we didn't, we really didn't have a choice.

This is an atmosphere where failure is rewarded (with bailout), and success is punished (successful businesses aren't offered perks such as cheap Federal lines of credit). Anti-market regulation.

As our country continues to go to sh!t, I wonder how much longer this wretched Capitalism can be blamed? The Shakespearian Paul Krugman better get to work.

[mRx 16]

the American decent into Marxism is happening

It really isn't you know...

If anyone would recognize the signs it would be someone that has already been there.

I have and I don't see it.

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

Naive? How about you trying to build an argument on your little pile of sheer ignorance on the issue?

Clearly, you haven't been there and simply don't know what it looked like.

What argument would you like me to build? GM= government controlled. Marxism= government controlled.

A preschooler with a crayon could make this connection.

Look, I'm in a former Socialist country. I know the waste and inefficiency it creates, and also the lengthy and painful process required to restructure an entire economy; I see it with my own eyes. I know surgeons who scrub dishes because they make more doing that than performing surgury. So spare me the life experience drivel.

[Peikko 1,575]

Are you not being a little 'sensationalist' though? Communism isn't simply one or even three or four companies that are given government financial aid (no matter what one thinks about the wisdom of that aid) but complete take over of ALL the means of production by the government. There is a huge difference between the two things.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

the American decent into Marxism is happening

It really isn't you know...

If anyone would recognize the signs it would be someone that has already been there.

I have and I don't see it.

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

Naive? How about you trying to build an argument on your little pile of sheer ignorance on the issue?

Clearly, you haven't been there and simply don't know what it looked like.

What argument would you like me to build? GM= government controlled. Marxism= government controlled.

A preschooler with a crayon could make this connection.

The fact is that you're making the connection like a pre-schooler with a crayon.

[mRx 16]

the American decent into Marxism is happening

It really isn't you know...

If anyone would recognize the signs it would be someone that has already been there.

I have and I don't see it.

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

Naive? How about you trying to build an argument on your little pile of sheer ignorance on the issue?

Clearly, you haven't been there and simply don't know what it looked like.

What argument would you like me to build? GM= government controlled. Marxism= government controlled.

A preschooler with a crayon could make this connection.

The fact is that you're making the connection like a pre-schooler with a crayon.

You have bested me, Mr Big Dog.

Permission to end my life?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Matt,

It was GM who came to the Fed Gov't. asking for help. They had no one else to turn to. Now, I would agree that the Fed probably should have told GM to file for bankruptcy from the get go, but at the time, the whole country was in an economic free fall and if GM tanked it would have caused a domino effect on the rest of corporate America.

As much as dislike the idea, this country's economy relies heavily on corporations. These humongous giants who, when they fall, everyone gets crushed underneath. The economy was in triage and the Fed focused on stopping the bleeding, which I believe it has saved us from going into a Depression.

Now the next important step is to restructure our financial market so this kind free fall doesn't happen again. The Fed was in effect, the only financial powerhouse big enough to save corporate giants like GM and Citigroup from falling and crushing the rest of us.

I know you don't agree with the Keynesian policies, but I hope you'll be open and patient in seeing how those policies come to fruition over the next 4 years.

[Peikko 1,575]

I know there are those who think this is some slippery slope, but really, that's fanciful. The most that is going to happen is that government will prevent this colossus from disintegrating in one fell swoop and the creation of either a leaner more competitive company or the gradual dissolution of the company. What it really is not going to lead to is a wholesale takeover by the government of all the manufacturing, distribution, financial and agricultural businesses which is after all what the blogger in the OP article (with a few bits of hyperbole and jingoism plus some doggerel and homophobia just for laughs) suggests.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Are you not being a little 'sensationalist' though? Communism isn't simply one or even three or four companies that are given government financial aid (no matter what one thinks about the wisdom of that aid) but complete take over of ALL the means of production by the government. There is a huge difference between the two things.

Bingo. And then there's a political angle that I haven't quite seen around here yet.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

the American decent into Marxism is happening

It really isn't you know...

If anyone would recognize the signs it would be someone that has already been there.

I have and I don't see it.

GM is swallowed by the government; a championing victory for "public" ownership of production, and you don't see the signs?

How naive can you be?

Naive? How about you trying to build an argument on your little pile of sheer ignorance on the issue?

Clearly, you haven't been there and simply don't know what it looked like.

What argument would you like me to build? GM= government controlled. Marxism= government controlled.

A preschooler with a crayon could make this connection.

The fact is that you're making the connection like a pre-schooler with a crayon.

You have bested me, Mr Big Dog.

Permission to end my life?

You better ask the government.