American capitalism gone with a whimper

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

[scandal 951]

You cannot deny that this could lead to a Marxist type of government if taken to its logical end.

If the Govt retains control of the banks and extends its control to other areas of the economy, sure.

I doubt that will be the case.

That said - Privatisation is fairly common in Europe, and we haven't turned into "Marxist Socialists".

(Pike I think you meant nationalisation is common in Europe, not privitization. And I'll bet Gary thinks that Europe is nothing but a den of Marxist snakes )

Horsefeathers, Gary.

When the day comes that the government exerts a complete ideologically backed takeover of all private enterprise and confiscates all private property, I'll agree with you.

I'm not seeing any attack on the Bill of Rights, nor am I seeing any attack on your or my ability to hold property or capital, or to use it, spend it, invest it, start a new business with it.

We've got enough real problems. Why do people just insist on fabricating non-existent ones?

And then deny pressing ones (as you are fond of doing with global warming)?

If you put the energy you waste worrying about the commie takeover into thinking about solutions to our real challenges, well.... you wouldn't be Gary, would you?

Peace, brother.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Nationalisation, that is.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

[alienlovechild 75]

When the day comes that the government exerts a complete ideologically backed takeover of all private enterprise and confiscates all private property, I'll agree with you.

I'm not seeing any attack on the Bill of Rights, nor am I seeing any attack on your or my ability to hold property or capital, or to use it, spend it, invest it, start a new business with it.

Even dictatorships don't take all your freedoms but surely the erosion of the private sector and private property rights represent a far more realistic threat than say waterboarding three terrorists. People don't invest if they think the government will seize wealth or use mobs to attack people with money. Don't assume it can never happen here. If the economy collapses, you can expect things to get rough. People expect a lot more now than they did in the Great Depression and I can see a lot of younger people getting really pissed off at having no future or one far worse than their parents.

We've got enough real problems. Why do people just insist on fabricating non-existent ones?

And then deny pressing ones (as you are fond of doing with global warming)?

The economy is a real problem now and far more pressing than a 6 inch rise in sealevel over the next 100 years.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

They are not in charge anymore.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

They are not in charge anymore.

But they want to be. Step #1 is to lie to the people. That's what this article does.

They're lying to us so they can go back to wreaking economic terror on our families.

They are economic terrorists.

[GaryC 7]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Ummmm,,, This was written by Pravda. Hardly a Right Wing news source.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

They are not in charge anymore.

But they want to be. Step #1 is to lie to the people. That's what this article does.

They're lying to us so they can go back to wreaking economic terror on our families.

They are economic terrorists.

The Republicans are living in exile in Minsk?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary - they do have the right wing in Russia, you know...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

They are not in charge anymore.

But they want to be. Step #1 is to lie to the people. That's what this article does.

They're lying to us so they can go back to wreaking economic terror on our families.

They are economic terrorists.

The Republicans are living in exile in Minsk?

The economic terrorist cabal, dedicated to keeping the middle class down, is worldwide. The Republican Party is just the American wing of the international terrorist movement.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What's so lame is this notion that seems to float about among Right Wingers is that somehow we'd be recovering from this deep Recession through tax cuts. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the Stimulus Bill prevented us from going through another Depression. It either that, or they just refuse to accept reality. I tend to believe it's the latter because denial is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Uh, no. They don't think recovery would occur with tax cuts. They just tell us that's what would happen, but they're smart enough to know that ain't true.

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade. No, no. The recovery they're interested in keeps the middle class firmly under their thumb, destroys the upward mobility of that was once a fundamental part of the American dream.

Their dream is economic terrorism. Pure and simple. They want to terrorize and demoralize the middle class. They want us to think that what they let us have is as good as it's gonna get. They want to get back to work, acclimating us to the chains they've been trying so hard to get on us. ** that. ** the terrorists. ** the Republican Party and their bullshit propaganda.

They are not in charge anymore.

But they want to be. Step #1 is to lie to the people. That's what this article does.

They're lying to us so they can go back to wreaking economic terror on our families.

They are economic terrorists.

The Republicans are living in exile in Minsk?

The economic terrorist cabal, dedicated to keeping the middle class down, is worldwide. The Republican Party is just the American wing of the international terrorist movement.

:Whisper: Careful. Stephen actually believes this stuff.

[alienlovechild 75]

The truth is, they don't care about a broad-based economic recovery that would lift all boats, a recovery that would generate the first serious increase in inflation-adjusted middle class wages in a decade.

That's incorrect and even census showed an increase in median real income until the recent recession.

Then there's the methodology problem.

"First, the money received by low income people from Social Security, welfare, and other government programs were generally not included. In other words, the large increase in money that retired and disabled people received from the Social Security Administration were not accounted for.

Second, there has been an ongoing debate among economists in and out of the government on how to account for inflation. Over the last 25 years, the methodology used to construct the official Consumer Price has been changed three times. In each case, the amount of yearly inflation was increased, which had the consequence the incomes rose faster over time. For some reason, P&S were not using the most recent price adjustments.

Third, companies were contributing a higher percent of their payrolls to benefits (due primarily to rising employer contributions for worker health insurance). Since these are untaxed they are not included in IRS income.

Finally, they did not account for changes in household sizes over the last quarter-century, which were dramatic.

P&S conclude that if a different price indicator were used and adjustments were made for the missing incomes, changing family sizes, and rising benefits, “from 1973 to 2000, the average income of the bottom 99% would have grown by about 50% in real terms instead of stagnating (as displayed on the figure above.” This remarkable difference is rarely acknowledged by the many writers who cite P&S findings."

http://stats.org/stories/2008/myth_income_...e_aug22_08.html