Should We Waterboard the Christian Fascist Terrorist Who Assassinated Dr. Tiller?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Marc isn't the most subtle guy - but you actually removed what subtlety there was from that post (and added nothing into the bargain).

A post from Mr. Subtle himself.

That's Marc for you. He's obsessed with other people's rear ends and genital regions.

And this added what?

You got me there Dave - bang to rights with that one.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I dont think Republicans needs to be called terrorists.

Yes, they do. It's the truth and it's important people realize that.

What do you call Democrats?

babykillers.

[jundp 191]

How many murders did the dr. commit?

None.

I respectfully disagree. Just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

But............

that doesn't justify Dr. Tiller's murder.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How many murders did the dr. commit?

None.

I respectfully disagree. Just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

But............

that doesn't justify Dr. Tiller's murder.

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Private Pike

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Terrorists lie and mislead. It's their nature.

Kudos to you, Private, for shedding light on the darkness. Nothing kills scum like sunlight.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How many murders did the dr. commit?

None.

I respectfully disagree. Just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

But............

that doesn't justify Dr. Tiller's murder.

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Good point.

[scandal 951]

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies

Um, yes it is in doubt. Because calling a pre-term fetus a "baby" is not terminology that is agreed upon by any means.

The word "baby" in this context is heavily politically charged, misleading, and not at all accepted universally. I would not use that word.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies

Um, yes it is in doubt. Because calling a pre-term fetus a "baby" is not terminology that is agreed upon by any means.

The word "baby" in this context is heavily politically charged, misleading, and not at all accepted universally. I would not use that word.

Well whatever noun you want to use, the appropriate adjective is "killed" not "murdered".

[scandal 951]

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies

Um, yes it is in doubt. Because calling a pre-term fetus a "baby" is not terminology that is agreed upon by any means.

The word "baby" in this context is heavily politically charged, misleading, and not at all accepted universally. I would not use that word.

Well whatever noun you want to use, the appropriate adjective is "killed" not "murdered".

The noun matters. And so does the verb.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus/embryo, resulting in or caused by its death. An abortion can occur spontaneously due to complications during pregnancy or can be induced, in humans and other species. In the context of human pregnancies, an abortion induced to preserve the health of the gravida (pregnant female) is termed a therapeutic abortion, while an abortion induced for any other reason is termed an elective abortion. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy, while spontaneous abortions are usually termed miscarriages.

Nope, the word killing does not appear. Nor does baby. Sorry. Please try again.

[jundp 191]

You are right, Pike. I'm basing my comment on my personal beliefs and nothing else. I consider it murder. I also think what happened to the doctor was wrong. Death of an abortion doctor won't cancel out any moral wrongs (as perceived by those of us who believe it is a moral wrong) he committed. And...he wasn't breaking the LAW. I might not like it, and I will forever think it's murder (because it's a baby to me), but I admit that what he was doing was legal. And he shouldn't have been killed for it. In his church. Whilst ushering.

[_Simpson_ 250]

How many murders did the dr. commit?

None.

I respectfully disagree. Just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

But............

that doesn't justify Dr. Tiller's murder.

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Good point.

No not a good point, you missed his point altogether.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies

Um, yes it is in doubt. Because calling a pre-term fetus a "baby" is not terminology that is agreed upon by any means.

The word "baby" in this context is heavily politically charged, misleading, and not at all accepted universally. I would not use that word.

Well whatever noun you want to use, the appropriate adjective is "killed" not "murdered".

The noun matters. And so does the verb.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus/embryo, resulting in or caused by its death. An abortion can occur spontaneously due to complications during pregnancy or can be induced, in humans and other species. In the context of human pregnancies, an abortion induced to preserve the health of the gravida (pregnant female) is termed a therapeutic abortion, while an abortion induced for any other reason is termed an elective abortion. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy, while spontaneous abortions are usually termed miscarriages.

Nope, the word killing does not appear. Nor does baby. Sorry. Please try again.

yes the verb matters. That's a clanger indeed.

Pick your favorite euphemism I guess.

Wherever you picked that definition out from - doesn't really alter the fact that something is being "killed" (or destroyed if you don't like killed).

It most definitely isn't "murder".

Edited June 2, 2009 by Private Pike

[jundp 191]

I just want to add that calling an abortion a 'An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus/embryo, resulting in or caused by its death" doesn't change the fact that a life (or potential life) is being taken. It may sound less severe, but it's still there. The result is death. Whether you say "killing" or "removal" the end result is the same.

And I know it's politically charged, but those who believe that 'fetus' is a baby will believe that no matter what. Those who don't think it's a baby until it's out of the womb will not change their minds either. And that's totally fine. But especially third trimester abortions-- I personally don't understand how people can be ok with that. If the fetus can survive outside the womb, and the fetus is partially delivered, then how is that not murder?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If the law doesn't recognise the human rights of the unborn at that stage of development (and I'm not exactly sure that's the case) then it (still) isn't murder.

Personally, I don't agree with late stage abortion - and I don't think it should be legal to terminate a pregancy where the baby can survive on its own.

It is a murky issue - because the nature of the terminology is inherently subjective and given that you can be charged with "murder" for killing a child in the womb under some circumstances.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Private Pike

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Murder is a legal definition. Killing is not.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies by performing the abortions, but there's a world of difference in taking that basic fact and applying the murder label to it.

If killing were automatically classed as murder - we wouldn't have umpteen different context-dependent legal classifications for it.

Its not in doubt that the Dr killed the babies

Um, yes it is in doubt. Because calling a pre-term fetus a "baby" is not terminology that is agreed upon by any means.

The word "baby" in this context is heavily politically charged, misleading, and not at all accepted universally. I would not use that word.

Well whatever noun you want to use, the appropriate adjective is "killed" not "murdered".

The noun matters. And so does the verb.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus/embryo, resulting in or caused by its death. An abortion can occur spontaneously due to complications during pregnancy or can be induced, in humans and other species. In the context of human pregnancies, an abortion induced to preserve the health of the gravida (pregnant female) is termed a therapeutic abortion, while an abortion induced for any other reason is termed an elective abortion. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy, while spontaneous abortions are usually termed miscarriages.

Nope, the word killing does not appear. Nor does baby. Sorry. Please try again.

yes the verb matters. That's a clanger indeed.

Pick your favorite euphemism I guess.

Wherever you picked that definition out from - doesn't really alter the fact that something is being "killed" (or destroyed if you don't like killed).

It most definitely isn't "murder".

But in certain jurisdictions, it is classified as homicide.