Did you consider living in Russia?

[sivad 0]

Aside from being a mafia and KGB infested dictatorship that assassinates opponents...and a cold and bleak country, and with high costs for lousy service and amenities, I'd love to live in Russia. After all, only men enjoy first class treatment...women second rate. And then there's the extreme alcoholism, short life expectancy, and the skinheads and the crime. Cigarette smoke everywhere. The crooked police, the bribes, the rip-offs, the fake merchandise, the lousy health care system. There's the many many prostitutes and sex trade and high std epidemic. Boys still must serve in the Army and get treated like animals and are abused. There is the pollution from lead gas and factories and the nuclear dumping grounds, to name but a few.

Yes, I can see why you love it in Russia. Masochist?

BTW, my Russian wife hates Russia in so many ways I can't count them all.

So long, comrade.

very nicely put visaveteran,i am very proud of marinas heritage,and our children will learn about russia,and speak the language.and as much as i enjoyed moscow,all the reasons above are the hitting the nail on the head.

i am glad the ex-pat enjoys st-pete,i would love to visit there,it looks very beautiful.

he is entitled to his opinion as well as everyone else here,and he does make some interesting points.

but there is freedom here like no-other place in the world.

[Neonred 3,609]

Wow....a lot of ####### there!

A man of few words. Well said Doc

Opps.... What I meant to say was, So glad you are happy and living a great life in Russia!

My wife's words were......that's a lot of #######!

[johnj 0]

Wow....a lot of ####### there!

A man of few words. Well said Doc

Opps.... What I meant to say was, So glad you are happy and living a great life in Russia!

My wife's words were......that's a lot of #######!

[baron555 934]

Yes, only the strong can live and be happy in America. All others will find it hard to live here and should not be here.

I am glad he has found his happy place.

[johnj 0]

I am glad he has found his happy place.

:thumbs:

[eekee 182]

i thought about for all of 3 minutes or so,and marina doesn't really want to move here,she is just moving here for me,i don't know what i would for work,i get paid alot here as compared to there.and speak russian like a 5 year old..lolololol

i really loved being there,just don't think i could live there full time.

Starting and operating a small business here is easier than most people think, there are lots of opportunities in niche markets. What is your experience and education in? Being married to a Russian citizen would allow you to get a work permit without a higher university degree as is required for foreigner work permits now. Be sure to have your degree notarized and certified by your secretary of state however or it will not be recognized.

What does ir buy me to be here? Freedom, a real sense of personal freedom that is hard to deny, you feel it stepping off the plane. You are adult and no one care what you do and how you live. There are laws and regulations of course but very few compared to the US which is the most regulated country on earth. There are no massively interconnected databases with every aspect of your life being stored sorted and compiled.

Yes, the freedom of having a corrupt police force with pretty much absolute power, where most crimes can be penanced for with either a bribe or getting beat up.

Getting a good night sleep is rare in the US due to stress or depression, the two most common complaint to doctors. It is obviously a hard place to raise a family, and a hard place to have a healthy life. Go take an objective view of any gathering of people and I dare you to claim they look healthy. Obesity is not normal in humans but it is the norm in the US. It is so common few people even notice how it's the only country in the world that has such widespread obesity and chronic illnesses. In my business I have a lot of contact with Americans and making arrangement for them. It is striking to everyone in the office how 15-25% of the Americans are complaining of serious food allergies and it is almost no existent with our European or Russian clients. Same with mental health. No country suffers from such wide spread mental health problems. 18% of adults are currently being treated for some sort of depression related malady and published estimates of another 20% are not diagnosed. 48% have been diagnosed with depression sometime in their lives. That is a VERY high rate of society induced mental impairment. It is an angry society, there is a lot of pent up anger and frustration and it comes out in many ways not seen in other societies.

This is total BS. Do you know why Americans have such high rates of treatment for mental illness? BECAUSE WE GO AND GET THINGS TREATED. I would say that the ratio of my American friends to Russian friends with some kind of mental health issue is about equal But the difference is that my American friends go to counseling, they get treated. My Russian friends go to produkty and get alcohol. And what ways do Americans show anger that you don't see elsewhere? Do you walk around the city and see fights and people chasing each other and bruised and bloody people? Oh, wait--that's St. Petersburg.

There are lots of reasons to move to your wife's region. You will have to admit she is smarter, more fit, more feminine and more emotionally mature and balanced than anyone you know in the US( I am guessing but the odds are very high that is true) so why do you think that the society that created and developed her would not benefit you and your children as well? Or go live anywhere in the developed world and find that life is of higher quality, less stressful and you are healthier, both mentally and physically with more time for rest, friends, family and intellectual and cultural activities. The answer why you can't pick up and leave is because you have no freedom to do that, you are tied into a consumption and work/debt cycle that gives you no freedom. It is hard enough to take a month long vacation let alone go away completely. Why is it that she CAN leave? Because she has more fundamental freedom that you do. Why is it that all your basic choices about the important things in life have to take second place behind a job, a job that can disappear instantly, and is doing just that for over 6,000,000 Americans a year. She agreed to come because she trusts you but you have not informed her of these risks, Americans generally do not realize how precarious their houses of cards are, it is so normal in that one society. But it is extremely rare, in fact, unique in the world. If you get sick or she gets sick, you are much more likely to be laid off, and join the 48,000,000 who have no access to regular health care. Does she know that? She has never had to think about doing without health care. Have you explained how paying $1000 a month for insurance does not assure that an ailment or treatment will be covered? It is the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US and can affect any family at any time. Did you tell her that? You are used to living with that risk and stress but she is not. She might think it a bigger deal than you do when it confronts her. Marriage break up at amazing rates, not for purely relationship reasons but primarily for financial reasons in the US. She is agreeing to change her life based on trust in you but she is not aware of the risk involved because you have so little control over the outcome.

Sure your current job pays well, $100,000 or more a year probably since you said it was better income than in Russia, how much savings to do you have? Will it last for the year or more that a job loss might require? How many years left on your mortgage do you have to pay? Does she know that your most important asset is so precarious and possible to lose so easily? She is going to have to learn to accept a level of insecurity she has never had before, and that is going to take its toll on the relationship. Currently 1 in 8 home mortgages are in default or late. None of those people who bought those homes believed they would be is such a position, they assumed their job was secure. When she hears of your high income she compares that to how incomes are consumed in Russia, where most income is available for discretionary spending ie., vacations, clothes, night clubs/dinning since most people do not have debt. Does she know even with $100,000 a year there is very little left for savings and fun at the end of the month? When Americans brag about their incomes it surprises people in other parts of the world that you don't have $5,000 in your pocket or need to use credit cards for vacations. They regularly take month long vacations and travel...do you with your much higher income? They have no experience with a debt funded life. So there is often shock and horror when a person from another society arrives who was expecting a certain level of financial security based on income levels finds out most of the income is already spoken for far into the future. Have you gone through line by line household budgets with her, to show where all your money goes? You have become used to being so indebted because you grew up with it as the norm she didn't, it might the the first real crisis your relationship encounters. Knowing most of family income goes to banks for the next 20-30 years is shocking to anyone but an American. One of your first real differences was probably her and your understanding of the concept behind the word "own". She likely owns her apartment. That is a large element of her security since no one can take it away and she has no payments. You use the word very loosely, such as in "owning your home" when in fact you own nothing except a conditional obligation from her understanding of the word and it can be taken away for many reasons at any time in a 20-30 year span. To a spouse coming from a society with a literal interpretation of the word, an American telling some one they own a home when in fact they are buying a home some time in the far distant future. To the foreign spouse that is a lie, a major lie. tell her the truth, if you have a 30 year mortgage you two will own the house in 20-30 years, assuming neither loose their jobs, gets sick or a tax dispute or ??

Before things get even more complicated by having many more responsibilities, discuss it with her. It is a lot easier to find a new source of income in another country than to fix the affects of a toxic social environment. did you stop to think why it was so easy to find a quality human in another society yet so difficult in a society where you know 1,000 times more people? You are used to highly stressed people surrounding you, and that stress has detrimental affects on their personalities, creativity and mental health. You visit a county where good mental health is the norm and everyone seems so intelligent, warm fit, and balanced that every female becomes a prospect. What are the chances of your own future daughter raised in the US turning out so superior such that suiters travel 5,000 miles to just to meet her?

You are asking for your wife and future children to sacrifice a lot for your job. What are you prepared to do for them to lower the risk?

If my wife insists on going to the US I will but I will also insist in not selling the apartment in St Petersburg which did not drop in value at all during the US recesson. My home in the US dropped in value by $400,000 since last October. If I had a large mortgage on it I would have been wiped out like so many of my ex-neighbors. It is easier to get started in SPb than in the US.

Those who have lived in other countries will recognize these points, those who have not will refuse to believe any of them.

Russia's unemployment rate is higher than America's. It is a less stable society--no one can deny that. Your claim that your apartment not losing any value runs contrary to every other report I've ever read: http://sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=15&a...=property+value And I didn't know it was just a US recession--let's tell the rest of the world that the world financial crisis is just a joke! It was all just a bad dream, Iceland! Former billionaires of Russia, here's your money back!

As much as I like Russia and like living there and admit that certain things there are easier for someone in my position in life--being able to get an lease in cash without a credit check, getting health insurance, etc.--one would have to be blind to actually live in St. Petersburg and still see things the way you do.

Edited May 31, 2009 by eekee

[Kotenochek 0]

I moved to the Usa because at that moment my husband was making very good income...

If I could turn things back I would make us both move to 3rd country.The reason why,is because then both people are in a same position and will understand and support each other better...

Usa has its positive side and then a lot of negative..there is no community support we have in Russia and its hard to live without it,once you have tasted what it is like...

Right now economy in USA sucks and it is very hard to get a job,which makes it extra hard to adjust to a new country...In Moscow situation is way better..People still are switching their jobs to a better ones...

[K1researcher 0]

well it is nice to see that the internet still never changes ... yeesh. why does everything have t be so polar?

i would live in Russia (never in Moscow). But the caveats require that I first attain citizenship and a good job.

the other option would be to retire there ... this would entail the legalization of gun ownership ... then i would bu a house in the coun ty and build a farm and shoot any trespassers :-P

[NavarreMan 10]

My skillset is ideally suited to life in my wife's home of Taganrog. Language would be an issue but the company I would look at would benefit with English speaking representatives. I thought about moving there and even researched employment and relocation aspects, but in the long run she did not want to live there any more. I think her prospects of employment, her treatment as a person and her general happiness all benefit by her moving here.

[Satellite 1]

I was born there, am a native speaker, could find a decent job there and wouldn't go back in a million years.

[Cixelsyd 1]

I don't think there's any reason in arguing which country is better than the other. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

As for my part, I would like to live in Russia for some time period just so I could understand the other side of my relationship better. Also, I found it to be very interesting and a lot of fun when I was there. I would never live in a big city like Moscow though, but I would never live in a big city in the U.S. either.

Of course as many other people have pointed out, there's that whole work issue that prevents anything like the previously mentioned from ever happening.

I did like the idea by Kotenochek about picking a third country. Still there's that whole job thing though.

[chili74 0]

Kotenochek- about community support- I agree with you that it is hard to go without it once you've tasted it. I think this is not so much an issue of Russia VS USA, as it is the era and economy in which we live. I grew up in the US, surrounded by family, church and school communities. I had a robust local support network as a child, including what Russian people think is a Russia-only experience - the ability to stay with grandparents in a rural place all day, all summer, or whenever. Now all my generation of family live in different states and it is very hard.

I agree with Cixelsyd, there is no point arguing the merits of living in Russia vs US. It is a highly individual decision.

[sivad 0]

I moved to the Usa because at that moment my husband was making very good income...

If I could turn things back I would make us both move to 3rd country.The reason why,is because then both people are in a same position and will understand and support each other better...

Usa has its positive side and then a lot of negative..there is no community support we have in Russia and its hard to live without it,once you have tasted what it is like...

Right now economy in USA sucks and it is very hard to get a job,which makes it extra hard to adjust to a new country...In Moscow situation is way better..People still are switching their jobs to a better ones...

marina and i where actually discussing this when we got engaged,3rd neutral country,but we couldn't decide on which one would best fit us,and be relatively easy for both familys to visit.

[mox 298]

If my wife insists on going to the US I will but I will also insist in not selling the apartment in St Petersburg which did not drop in value at all during the US recesson. My home in the US dropped in value by $400,000 since last October. If I had a large mortgage on it I would have been wiped out like so many of my ex-neighbors. It is easier to get started in SPb than in the US.

Those who have lived in other countries will recognize these points, those who have not will refuse to believe any of them.

You obviously haven't been paying attention then. If your apartment in St. Pete hasn't dropped in value, then it must have been carved out of a single block of gold. Because property values all over St. Pete have been hit hard. Also, if the value of your US home has dropped $400k, then seriously ####### are you doing hanging out on VJ? Get Jeeves to handle all your immigration stuff while you hire a personal trainer to help you write intelligibly.

Aside from being a mafia and KGB infested dictatorship that assassinates opponents...

Ah yes, it's so nice that we live in a country free of organized crime.

and a cold and bleak country, and with high costs for lousy service and amenities, I'd love to live in Russia.

Ah yes, Russia, a country that covers 1/6th of the surface of the earth, is just a solid block of ice for 12 months out of the year when it's not raining. And I so agree that services and amenities in the US are...well dadgummit, I think I actually get paid to use them!!

And then there's the extreme alcoholism, short life expectancy, and the skinheads and the crime.

Ah yes, so glad we have addiction and gang-related crime under control here in this country. It truly is utopia on Earth.

Cigarette smoke everywhere. The crooked police, the bribes, the rip-offs, the fake merchandise, the lousy health care system.

I know, right? Tobacco companies are just begging for bailouts in this country because nobody seems to smoke anymore. Meanwhile, all of our police are practically right out of Mayberry, and holy ####### dude don't even get me started on our totally f*cking awesome health care system that the rest of the world is so envious of.

There's the many many prostitutes and sex trade and high std epidemic. Boys still must serve in the Army and get treated like animals and are abused. There is the pollution from lead gas and factories and the nuclear dumping grounds, to name but a few.

Yep, no prostitution here in the good 'ol US of A. And no STD's either, thanks to our world class health care system. And yeah, you gotta love our perfectly responsible corporate citizens here in this country. They'd never do anything like dump toxic waste or pollute our ground water, rivers, and streams.

So long, comrade.

Promise?

[eekee 182]

Mox, usually I agree with you, but...

And then there's the extreme alcoholism, short life expectancy, and the skinheads and the crime.

Ah yes, so glad we have addiction and gang-related crime under control here in this country. It truly is utopia on Earth.

Alcoholism is nowhere NEAR the problem in the US that it is in Russia. Heroin, too. We have a lot better resources and laws to deal with this problem, even if we haven't "solved" them yet.

Cigarette smoke everywhere. The crooked police, the bribes, the rip-offs, the fake merchandise, the lousy health care system.

I know, right? Tobacco companies are just begging for bailouts in this country because nobody seems to smoke anymore. Meanwhile, all of our police are practically right out of Mayberry, and holy ####### dude don't even get me started on our totally f*cking awesome health care system that the rest of the world is so envious of.

I don't think you can even compare Russian police with American police. When an American police officer beats someone up, it makes the news. When a Russian police officer beats someone up, it's "What else is a police officer supposed to do when the person does not have the money to pay a bribe?" Did you never see the Nasha Russia sketch about the only police officer who refuses bribes, and his wife and daughter are dying of starvation?

There's the many many prostitutes and sex trade and high std epidemic. Boys still must serve in the Army and get treated like animals and are abused. There is the pollution from lead gas and factories and the nuclear dumping grounds, to name but a few.

Yep, no prostitution here in the good 'ol US of A. And no STD's either, thanks to our world class health care system. And yeah, you gotta love our perfectly responsible corporate citizens here in this country. They'd never do anything like dump toxic waste or pollute our ground water, rivers, and streams.

Sorry, but Russia has a much bigger STD problem. Although with abstinence-only sex education (compared with Russia's complete lack of such education), we may catch up. The Herpes wikipedia page actually used to have a special notation about the high rate of genital herpes in Russia (I know because one of my friends pointed it out to me, thanks dude), but that has since been deleted. HIV/AIDS is a much bigger problem there too, but largely due to prostitution and needle drugs. There are doomsday estimates that say that in 10 years, 10% of the Russian population will be hiv +. Due to education/awareness, the situation there has gotten slightly better in this regard in the past few years, though.

Neither country is perfect, but these are areas--substance abuse, corruption, sexual health--where I would say that the situation in the US is markedly better.