Did you consider living in Russia?

[am-expat 0]

I was wondering if I am the only crazy person who is resistant to bringing a wife from Russia to the US. She is intrigued by the idea but I would really prefer to stay in Russia. I prefer the culture in almost every way and think of the harm living in the somewhat toxic cultural environment of the US would do to our relationship and her son. One of the reasons she is such a fantastic human is because of the culture in which she was raised that continues to nurture her.

My question is whether you and your spouse considered remaining in Russia, instead of Americanizing your spouse? If you did, how is it working?

These are ongoing discussions in our home now, the more she thinks the more she wants to try living in the US but what she knows of it is a Hollywood image, not the reality. She has traveled extensively before we got together but never to the US. We applied for a tourist visa so she could see for herself but the Consulate denied her application despite all the supporting evidence of retaining her permanent residence in Russia.

Knowing her very well, and what she values in life I know it would be detrimental for her. Her 12 year old son doesn't care either way, he is very flexible and will probably always be an international kid comfortable in any environment and speaking 1/2 a dozen languages.

[Corey-Mariya 14]

Corey was talking about living in Russia, but I cant really imagine it. It was a lot easier for me to adapt to living in the United States then for Corey to live in Russia.

[johnj 0]

Yes, I considered it. I lived in Russia from January 2006-August 2006. No amount of short visits will prepare you for the difference of living there full time. Consider carefully the difficulty of employment and the loss of American conveniences (car, washing machine, etc).

[Chuckles 0]

I'd live in Moscow, but my company won't transfer me. There is nothing with my skillset there.

Outside of Moscow and St. Pete, I wouldn't want to live in Russia. Actually, scratch that, I wouldn't want to live in Russia at all, but would make the sacrifice if it were those 2 places.

I think perhaps, you romaticize about life in Russia too much. Then again, maybe not, to each thier own.

[Corey-Mariya 14]

Yes, I considered it. I lived in Russia from January 2006-August 2006. No amount of short visits will prepare you for the difference of living there full time. Consider carefully the difficulty of employment and the loss of American conveniences (car, washing machine, etc).

Edited May 30, 2009 by Corey-Mariya

[Corey-Mariya 14]

You can have all the conveniences over in Russia like you would have in the USA. The most difficult think is language, russian is a lot more difficult to learn than english.

[am-expat 0]

Yes, I considered it. I lived in Russia from January 2006-August 2006. No amount of short visits will prepare you for the difference of living there full time. Consider carefully the difficulty of employment and the loss of American conveniences (car, washing machine, etc).

Thank you. I maybe a little crazy but I have been living here full time for 7 years and have spent a lot of time in the prior 20 years in Russia.5-6 years ago it would have been iffy but now we live a very pleasant middle class life, my business is growing and successful and almost all my friends live here so for me, it would be a serious and unwelcome adjustment to live in the US again. The few times I visit back in the US, I am climbing the walls to get back after 4-5 days.

There are special concerns, getting started again with a new business is a stagnant economy, the higher stress level in the US and the nature of its pop culture I feel is not desirable. My step-son would have a harder time getting a good education unless we could afford an advanced private school....etc etc. I do have a large house in a highly desirable area but it would require a high monthly income to reintegrate. Now it is leased out to cover the mortgage. I can't think of where I could get a job right "off the boat" that would allow the $5000-6000/mo in basic expenses there. Starting a business from scratch would require a long term investment before it would net that much...all to have a lower quality of life. These are the things I am considering. We do fine on about $3000 a month now but have no house payments or bills except for commons, and mobile phones/internet etc.

If she really wants it I can figure out something but I know neither of us would be happy with the change. She has minor complaints about modern day Russia but nothing that is making her unhappy. She complains of how hard it is to get visas, and the streets being too dirty, and high prices for consumer products/cars. Yes, all that is true but overall we have a wonderfully stress free life with much greater security than we would have in the US. Driving is safer in the US but most of the time we do not need to drive our cars now, everything is within walking distance.

As you can see, it is not as easy to start over with a lot of responsibilities immediately upon arriving. Maybe a coin toss would solve the problem.

[johnj 0]

I would not consider Moscow like most of Russia. I have been from the West to the East; from the north to the south. No way I would ever live in Moscow. If I could get suitable employment and provide for my family; I would live in Russia in a heartbeat.

[am-expat 0]

I would not consider Moscow like most of Russia. I have been from the West to the East; from the north to the south. No way I would ever live in Moscow. If I could get suitable employment and provide for my family; I would live in Russia in a heartbeat.

We live in St Petersburg, for my personality it is the best city in the world. I love every minute of it. I've traveled a lot in Russia but the reason I am here is this one city. If "required" to live in Moscow I would not be living in Russia.. There are other cities and even villages that I could enjoy but my heart is in SPb.

The funny thing about this was that Marina only agreed to a date when we met 4 years ago because I was not planning on leaving. I've run into that a lot in my single days, women who would not show any interest until I made it clear I was here long term.

Even when I lived in the US I was always more comfortable in other countries or away from people in rural regions. The last time I was in the US visiting family they insisted on having Fox channel on 24 hours a day. That crystallized in my mind why I did not fit into the US culture, what is highly popular in the US would turn stomachs in every other country.

[sivad 0]

i thought about for all of 3 minutes or so,and marina doesn't really want to move here,she is just moving here for me,i don't know what i would for work,i get paid alot here as compared to there.and speak russian like a 5 year old..lolololol

i really loved being there,just don't think i could live there full time.

[am-expat 0]

i thought about for all of 3 minutes or so,and marina doesn't really want to move here,she is just moving here for me,i don't know what i would for work,i get paid alot here as compared to there.and speak russian like a 5 year old..lolololol

i really loved being there,just don't think i could live there full time.

That blind trust she has in you puts more pressure on you since so much of your promise of a secure life is not controlled by you.

If the only reason is lack of a good job, that might not be required. Does she own her flat, most people do? If that is the case, for a similar lifestyle much less income is required without housing costs. In the US1/3 to 1/2 of net income goes to keeping a house. Even then, losing a job might mean that is gone in a flash. Jobs are not very secure in the US right now, nor have they been in the last couple decades.

Starting and operating a small business here is easier than most people think, there are lots of opportunities in niche markets. What is your experience and education in? Being married to a Russian citizen would allow you to get a work permit without a higher university degree as is required for foreigner work permits now. Be sure to have your degree notarized and certified by your secretary of state however or it will not be recognized.

What does ir buy me to be here? Freedom, a real sense of personal freedom that is hard to deny, you feel it stepping off the plane. You are adult and no one care what you do and how you live. There are laws and regulations of course but very few compared to the US which is the most regulated country on earth. There are no massively interconnected databases with every aspect of your life being stored sorted and compiled. But the main benefit is free time. I have more time and freedom to spend it with my friends and family that was virtually impossible in the US. More time to socialize, to pursue hobbies, more time to develop a relationship, more time for cultural activities, and more time to use as I see fit. I work hard but also spend at least 8 hours every day with desired activities that was not possible in the US because of the extra demands of keeping a more complex and highly regulated life together there. By not having to drive everywhere and not having any debt or payments, it frees up many hours every day. Although we have two cars, mine I had for a while here and Marina's new car, we use them only a few times a week, usually to go shopping far in the suburbs where the new mega-discount stores are located for large grocery purchases. Walking in a city creates more free time. And about $1000 a month in less income required.

Even if you do not have to make car payments the direct and indirect costs are not much lower than $1000 a month to keep it and use it.

A simpler more direct life allows you to keep a better perspective on what is really important. When on your death bed you are not going to look back with admiration about how you kept the bills paid and worked yourself to death even though it took most of your time away from family. You are going to regret the time you wasted on unimportant things like working overtime to pay for a new car or new gadget that really wasn't needed.

I think the most toxic aspect of American life is the low quality of life compared to anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia, much of South America, Central and Eastern Europe. Yes people have things but they are too stressed and too busy supporting them to enjoy them. Getting a good night sleep is rare in the US due to stress or depression, the two most common complaint to doctors. It is obviously a hard place to raise a family, and a hard place to have a healthy life. Go take an objective view of any gathering of people and I dare you to claim they look healthy. Obesity is not normal in humans but it is the norm in the US. It is so common few people even notice how it's the only country in the world that has such widespread obesity and chronic illnesses. In my business I have a lot of contact with Americans and making arrangement for them. It is striking to everyone in the office how 15-25% of the Americans are complaining of serious food allergies and it is almost no existent with our European or Russian clients. Same with mental health. No country suffers from such wide spread mental health problems. 18% of adults are currently being treated for some sort of depression related malady and published estimates of another 20% are not diagnosed. 48% have been diagnosed with depression sometime in their lives. That is a VERY high rate of society induced mental impairment. It is an angry society, there is a lot of pent up anger and frustration and it comes out in many ways not seen in other societies. It is a poorly educated society that sees nothing wrong with high school dropout rates far exceeding the norm for developed countries, some states with 50% non-completion of hight school. Of those who do graduate the level of education and knowledge of the world around them is absurdly low...do you REALLY want your children to be as clueless about the world, science, economic, philosophy, the arts, math, geography, politics, languages, religions etc as Americans are? Walk up to the next random person on the street ant ask them what the capitol of a moderate sized country is. A rare American will know. Ask any random Russian and it would be a very rare person not to know.

There are lots of reasons to move to your wife's region. You will have to admit she is smarter, more fit, more feminine and more emotionally mature and balanced than anyone you know in the US( I am guessing but the odds are very high that is true) so why do you think that the society that created and developed her would not benefit you and your children as well? Or go live anywhere in the developed world and find that life is of higher quality, less stressful and you are healthier, both mentally and physically with more time for rest, friends, family and intellectual and cultural activities. The answer why you can't pick up and leave is because you have no freedom to do that, you are tied into a consumption and work/debt cycle that gives you no freedom. It is hard enough to take a month long vacation let alone go away completely. Why is it that she CAN leave? Because she has more fundamental freedom that you do. Why is it that all your basic choices about the important things in life have to take second place behind a job, a job that can disappear instantly, and is doing just that for over 6,000,000 Americans a year. She agreed to come because she trusts you but you have not informed her of these risks, Americans generally do not realize how precarious their houses of cards are, it is so normal in that one society. But it is extremely rare, in fact, unique in the world. If you get sick or she gets sick, you are much more likely to be laid off, and join the 48,000,000 who have no access to regular health care. Does she know that? She has never had to think about doing without health care. Have you explained how paying $1000 a month for insurance does not assure that an ailment or treatment will be covered? It is the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US and can affect any family at any time. Did you tell her that? You are used to living with that risk and stress but she is not. She might think it a bigger deal than you do when it confronts her. Marriage break up at amazing rates, not for purely relationship reasons but primarily for financial reasons in the US. She is agreeing to change her life based on trust in you but she is not aware of the risk involved because you have so little control over the outcome.

Sure your current job pays well, $100,000 or more a year probably since you said it was better income than in Russia, how much savings to do you have? Will it last for the year or more that a job loss might require? How many years left on your mortgage do you have to pay? Does she know that your most important asset is so precarious and possible to lose so easily? She is going to have to learn to accept a level of insecurity she has never had before, and that is going to take its toll on the relationship. Currently 1 in 8 home mortgages are in default or late. None of those people who bought those homes believed they would be is such a position, they assumed their job was secure. When she hears of your high income she compares that to how incomes are consumed in Russia, where most income is available for discretionary spending ie., vacations, clothes, night clubs/dinning since most people do not have debt. Does she know even with $100,000 a year there is very little left for savings and fun at the end of the month? When Americans brag about their incomes it surprises people in other parts of the world that you don't have $5,000 in your pocket or need to use credit cards for vacations. They regularly take month long vacations and travel...do you with your much higher income? They have no experience with a debt funded life. So there is often shock and horror when a person from another society arrives who was expecting a certain level of financial security based on income levels finds out most of the income is already spoken for far into the future. Have you gone through line by line household budgets with her, to show where all your money goes? You have become used to being so indebted because you grew up with it as the norm she didn't, it might the the first real crisis your relationship encounters. Knowing most of family income goes to banks for the next 20-30 years is shocking to anyone but an American. One of your first real differences was probably her and your understanding of the concept behind the word "own". She likely owns her apartment. That is a large element of her security since no one can take it away and she has no payments. You use the word very loosely, such as in "owning your home" when in fact you own nothing except a conditional obligation from her understanding of the word and it can be taken away for many reasons at any time in a 20-30 year span. To a spouse coming from a society with a literal interpretation of the word, an American telling some one they own a home when in fact they are buying a home some time in the far distant future. To the foreign spouse that is a lie, a major lie. tell her the truth, if you have a 30 year mortgage you two will own the house in 20-30 years, assuming neither loose their jobs, gets sick or a tax dispute or ??

Before things get even more complicated by having many more responsibilities, discuss it with her. It is a lot easier to find a new source of income in another country than to fix the affects of a toxic social environment. did you stop to think why it was so easy to find a quality human in another society yet so difficult in a society where you know 1,000 times more people? You are used to highly stressed people surrounding you, and that stress has detrimental affects on their personalities, creativity and mental health. You visit a county where good mental health is the norm and everyone seems so intelligent, warm fit, and balanced that every female becomes a prospect. What are the chances of your own future daughter raised in the US turning out so superior such that suiters travel 5,000 miles to just to meet her?

You are asking for your wife and future children to sacrifice a lot for your job. What are you prepared to do for them to lower the risk?

If my wife insists on going to the US I will but I will also insist in not selling the apartment in St Petersburg which did not drop in value at all during the US recesson. My home in the US dropped in value by $400,000 since last October. If I had a large mortgage on it I would have been wiped out like so many of my ex-neighbors. It is easier to get started in SPb than in the US.

Those who have lived in other countries will recognize these points, those who have not will refuse to believe any of them.

[Neonred 3,640]

i thought about for all of 3 minutes or so,and marina doesn't really want to move here,she is just moving here for me,i don't know what i would for work,i get paid alot here as compared to there.and speak russian like a 5 year old..lolololol

i really loved being there,just don't think i could live there full time.

That blind trust she has in you puts more pressure on you since so much of your promise of a secure life is not controlled by you.

If the only reason is lack of a good job, that might not be required. Does she own her flat, most people do? If that is the case, for a similar lifestyle much less income is required without housing costs. In the US1/3 to 1/2 of net income goes to keeping a house. Even then, losing a job might mean that is gone in a flash. Jobs are not very secure in the US right now, nor have they been in the last couple decades.

Starting and operating a small business here is easier than most people think, there are lots of opportunities in niche markets. What is your experience and education in? Being married to a Russian citizen would allow you to get a work permit without a higher university degree as is required for foreigner work permits now. Be sure to have your degree notarized and certified by your secretary of state however or it will not be recognized.

What does ir buy me to be here? Freedom, a real sense of personal freedom that is hard to deny, you feel it stepping off the plane. You are adult and no one care what you do and how you live. There are laws and regulations of course but very few compared to the US which is the most regulated country on earth. There are no massively interconnected databases with every aspect of your life being stored sorted and compiled. But the main benefit is free time. I have more time and freedom to spend it with my friends and family that was virtually impossible in the US. More time to socialize, to pursue hobbies, more time to develop a relationship, more time for cultural activities, and more time to use as I see fit. I work hard but also spend at least 8 hours every day with desired activities that was not possible in the US because of the extra demands of keeping a more complex and highly regulated life together there. By not having to drive everywhere and not having any debt or payments, it frees up many hours every day. Although we have two cars, mine I had for a while here and Marina's new car, we use them only a few times a week, usually to go shopping far in the suburbs where the new mega-discount stores are located for large grocery purchases. Walking in a city creates more free time. And about $1000 a month in less income required.

Even if you do not have to make car payments the direct and indirect costs are not much lower than $1000 a month to keep it and use it.

A simpler more direct life allows you to keep a better perspective on what is really important. When on your death bed you are not going to look back with admiration about how you kept the bills paid and worked yourself to death even though it took most of your time away from family. You are going to regret the time you wasted on unimportant things like working overtime to pay for a new car or new gadget that really wasn't needed.

I think the most toxic aspect of American life is the low quality of life compared to anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia, much of South America, Central and Eastern Europe. Yes people have things but they are too stressed and too busy supporting them to enjoy them. Getting a good night sleep is rare in the US due to stress or depression, the two most common complaint to doctors. It is obviously a hard place to raise a family, and a hard place to have a healthy life. Go take an objective view of any gathering of people and I dare you to claim they look healthy. Obesity is not normal in humans but it is the norm in the US. It is so common few people even notice how it's the only country in the world that has such widespread obesity and chronic illnesses. In my business I have a lot of contact with Americans and making arrangement for them. It is striking to everyone in the office how 15-25% of the Americans are complaining of serious food allergies and it is almost no existent with our European or Russian clients. Same with mental health. No country suffers from such wide spread mental health problems. 18% of adults are currently being treated for some sort of depression related malady and published estimates of another 20% are not diagnosed. 48% have been diagnosed with depression sometime in their lives. That is a VERY high rate of society induced mental impairment. It is an angry society, there is a lot of pent up anger and frustration and it comes out in many ways not seen in other societies. It is a poorly educated society that sees nothing wrong with high school dropout rates far exceeding the norm for developed countries, some states with 50% non-completion of hight school. Of those who do graduate the level of education and knowledge of the world around them is absurdly low...do you REALLY want your children to be as clueless about the world, science, economic, philosophy, the arts, math, geography, politics, languages, religions etc as Americans are? Walk up to the next random person on the street ant ask them what the capitol of a moderate sized country is. A rare American will know. Ask any random Russian and it would be a very rare person not to know.

There are lots of reasons to move to your wife's region. You will have to admit she is smarter, more fit, more feminine and more emotionally mature and balanced than anyone you know in the US( I am guessing but the odds are very high that is true) so why do you think that the society that created and developed her would not benefit you and your children as well? Or go live anywhere in the developed world and find that life is of higher quality, less stressful and you are healthier, both mentally and physically with more time for rest, friends, family and intellectual and cultural activities. The answer why you can't pick up and leave is because you have no freedom to do that, you are tied into a consumption and work/debt cycle that gives you no freedom. It is hard enough to take a month long vacation let alone go away completely. Why is it that she CAN leave? Because she has more fundamental freedom that you do. Why is it that all your basic choices about the important things in life have to take second place behind a job, a job that can disappear instantly, and is doing just that for over 6,000,000 Americans a year. She agreed to come because she trusts you but you have not informed her of these risks, Americans generally do not realize how precarious their houses of cards are, it is so normal in that one society. But it is extremely rare, in fact, unique in the world. If you get sick or she gets sick, you are much more likely to be laid off, and join the 48,000,000 who have no access to regular health care. Does she know that? She has never had to think about doing without health care. Have you explained how paying $1000 a month for insurance does not assure that an ailment or treatment will be covered? It is the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US and can affect any family at any time. Did you tell her that? You are used to living with that risk and stress but she is not. She might think it a bigger deal than you do when it confronts her. Marriage break up at amazing rates, not for purely relationship reasons but primarily for financial reasons in the US. She is agreeing to change her life based on trust in you but she is not aware of the risk involved because you have so little control over the outcome.

Sure your current job pays well, $100,000 or more a year probably since you said it was better income than in Russia, how much savings to do you have? Will it last for the year or more that a job loss might require? How many years left on your mortgage do you have to pay? Does she know that your most important asset is so precarious and possible to lose so easily? She is going to have to learn to accept a level of insecurity she has never had before, and that is going to take its toll on the relationship. Currently 1 in 8 home mortgages are in default or late. None of those people who bought those homes believed they would be is such a position, they assumed their job was secure. When she hears of your high income she compares that to how incomes are consumed in Russia, where most income is available for discretionary spending ie., vacations, clothes, night clubs/dinning since most people do not have debt. Does she know even with $100,000 a year there is very little left for savings and fun at the end of the month? When Americans brag about their incomes it surprises people in other parts of the world that you don't have $5,000 in your pocket or need to use credit cards for vacations. They regularly take month long vacations and travel...do you with your much higher income? They have no experience with a debt funded life. So there is often shock and horror when a person from another society arrives who was expecting a certain level of financial security based on income levels finds out most of the income is already spoken for far into the future. Have you gone through line by line household budgets with her, to show where all your money goes? You have become used to being so indebted because you grew up with it as the norm she didn't, it might the the first real crisis your relationship encounters. Knowing most of family income goes to banks for the next 20-30 years is shocking to anyone but an American. One of your first real differences was probably her and your understanding of the concept behind the word "own". She likely owns her apartment. That is a large element of her security since no one can take it away and she has no payments. You use the word very loosely, such as in "owning your home" when in fact you own nothing except a conditional obligation from her understanding of the word and it can be taken away for many reasons at any time in a 20-30 year span. To a spouse coming from a society with a literal interpretation of the word, an American telling some one they own a home when in fact they are buying a home some time in the far distant future. To the foreign spouse that is a lie, a major lie. tell her the truth, if you have a 30 year mortgage you two will own the house in 20-30 years, assuming neither loose their jobs, gets sick or a tax dispute or ??

Before things get even more complicated by having many more responsibilities, discuss it with her. It is a lot easier to find a new source of income in another country than to fix the affects of a toxic social environment. did you stop to think why it was so easy to find a quality human in another society yet so difficult in a society where you know 1,000 times more people? You are used to highly stressed people surrounding you, and that stress has detrimental affects on their personalities, creativity and mental health. You visit a county where good mental health is the norm and everyone seems so intelligent, warm fit, and balanced that every female becomes a prospect. What are the chances of your own future daughter raised in the US turning out so superior such that suiters travel 5,000 miles to just to meet her?

You are asking for your wife and future children to sacrifice a lot for your job. What are you prepared to do for them to lower the risk?

If my wife insists on going to the US I will but I will also insist in not selling the apartment in St Petersburg which did not drop in value at all during the US recesson. My home in the US dropped in value by $400,000 since last October. If I had a large mortgage on it I would have been wiped out like so many of my ex-neighbors. It is easier to get started in SPb than in the US.

Those who have lived in other countries will recognize these points, those who have not will refuse to believe any of them.

Wow....a lot of ####### there!

[baron555 934]

[What does ir buy me to be here? Freedom, a real sense of personal freedom that is hard to deny, you feel it stepping off the plane. You are adult and no one care what you do and how you live. There are laws and regulations of course but very few compared to the US which is the most regulated country on earth

Excuse me?

[johnj 0]

Wow....a lot of ####### there!

A man of few words. Well said Doc

[visaveteran 1]

Aside from being a mafia and KGB infested dictatorship that assassinates opponents...and a cold and bleak country, and with high costs for lousy service and amenities, I'd love to live in Russia. After all, only men enjoy first class treatment...women second rate. And then there's the extreme alcoholism, short life expectancy, and the skinheads and the crime. Cigarette smoke everywhere. The crooked police, the bribes, the rip-offs, the fake merchandise, the lousy health care system. There's the many many prostitutes and sex trade and high std epidemic. Boys still must serve in the Army and get treated like animals and are abused. There is the pollution from lead gas and factories and the nuclear dumping grounds, to name but a few.

Yes, I can see why you love it in Russia. Masochist?

BTW, my Russian wife hates Russia in so many ways I can't count them all.

So long, comrade.