New Obama Immigration Reform

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Not going to rip it shreds. But I think the OP was hoping that Obama would speed up the process. This aint gonna happen. In the E.U. this process takes 30 days. In the U.S. it takes a year. Can you imagine if Obama went on TV and said we are going to speed up the immigration process? Most people would equate that to allowing illegal immigrants to stay here. This is such a hot button issue in the U.S. that it will never go anywhere. It will continue to be a lumbering process.

Can you imagine if Obama went on TV and said we're going to crack down on immigration fraud and improve security? It all depends on how he spins it!

BTW, immigration fraud is definitely illegal immigration, but illegal immigration is not often immigration fraud. The vast bulk of illegal immigration is from illegal border crossings from Mexico. Streamlining legal immigration will have no effect whatever on illegal border crossing. That's a completely separate law enforcement issue. I don't endorse any sort of amnesty programs. People should never be rewarded for breaking the law, just because they managed to avoid getting caught for some predetermined length of time.

[daboyz 36]

Not going to rip it shreds. But I think the OP was hoping that Obama would speed up the process. This aint gonna happen. In the E.U. this process takes 30 days. In the U.S. it takes a year. Can you imagine if Obama went on TV and said we are going to speed up the immigration process? Most people would equate that to allowing illegal immigrants to stay here. This is such a hot button issue in the U.S. that it will never go anywhere. It will continue to be a lumbering process.

Can you imagine if Obama went on TV and said we're going to crack down on immigration fraud and improve security? It all depends on how he spins it!

BTW, immigration fraud is definitely illegal immigration, but illegal immigration is not often immigration fraud. The vast bulk of illegal immigration is from illegal border crossings from Mexico. Streamlining legal immigration will have no effect whatever on illegal border crossing. That's a completely separate law enforcement issue. I don't endorse any sort of amnesty programs. People should never be rewarded for breaking the law, just because they managed to avoid getting caught for some predetermined length of time.

It's all about perception. I kinda doubt people would see the difference, although I do agree they are apples and oranges. Fraud is one thing, illegal immigration is another. They are both illegal. In the scope of our current situation, fraud is obtaining a visa by nefarious means, illegal means you came here illegally. I doubt most people will make a distinction. Kinda hard to call something fraud when you swim across a river.

[Kinito_2k3 5]

I'm going to do something I don't usually do on internet forums, and I'm going to pontificate on a political subject, because this particular subject has become important to me.

The best way to streamline the K visa immigration process is to eliminate the things that currently slow it down; the potential for fraud and security risks.

The potential for fraud can be eliminated by removing the motive for fraud, which is to use the K visa primarily for the purpose of immigration rather than marriage. Fraudsters like the K visa because there is no annual quota, so they can get to the US in a matter of months rather than years. The current system is based on perceived intent, and puts the onus on USCIS and DoS to determine if the intent of the petitioner and/or beneficiary are sincere. The amount of scrutiny each case receives causes a bottleneck, and slows everything down.

Why/how would there be a quota? People from different cultures meet, that's globalization, they want to live happy and decide to come to your country - how do you pick which couple is eligible? First in first served basis? Screw that - No such things as trying to control evolution -

Ok, fine. Leave the K visa without an annual quota, and allow beneficiary's to come to the US as quickly as possible. However, make them wait as long as other family members would have to wait before getting permanent legal status in the US. The green card should be temporary for 10 years. If they divorce during that 10 years, they have to return to their home country. If they accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse during that 10 year period (this is a HUGE loophole in the current law), then they still have to return to their home country. However, in that event, the US citizen spouse is required to pay their travel expenses, and also required to pay them spousal support (alimony) until the 10 year period is ended. USCIS can use the IRS to enforce the payments.

Green card temporary for 10 years upon what deportation if divorce/abuse happens - do you actually realize what you are saying here? What if am happy for 6 years and my wife and myself meet someone else and decide to go ahead with it - but within 3 years I was naturalized since I love it here, I am successful, and contribute to the country's prosperity - In a country built upon immigration, this is hard to swallow

These changes would eliminate the motive to marry a US citizen, and then promptly divorce them when they get their 10 year green card or US citizenship. It would also eliminate foreign spouses who falsely accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse just to skip the 2 year wait, and go straight to adjustment of status. No more shortcuts to permanent residency. A couple who are sincere would have no problem accepting these conditions, because they have every intention of staying together.

How do you justify that I am allowed to be part of a country with no right to vote in federal/national elections where a good portion of the population would be in the same case - about the fake abuses, who other than psychiatrists are able to judge - let's put that in place - For the sincere couple being to accept these terms - I wouldn't be, I can't sit on my civil rights for 10 years, this is against my definition of immigration

A couple would no longer have to provide proof of ongoing relationship, nor have such proof scrutinized by the consulate. They're signing a contract to stay together for 10 years or abandon their claim to permanent residency. That should establish their intent to have a long term relationship, and it should be accepted without question by the consulate.

hahahahhahahha, sure, think about it more than 10seconds next time

For security, require the beneficiary's country of origin to provide a guarantee that the beneficiary is not a security threat. This would work like a credit system. Where there is a low incidence of immigrants from a particular country getting into any legal trouble in the US, the country of origin would have a high security credit rating, meaning their security guarantee would be given a high degree of credibility. The more immigrants from a particular country get in trouble in the US, the lower the security credit rating of that country goes, and the less credibility their guarantee is given. At some threshold, the guarantee becomes worthless, and lengthy security checks go into force. This system would give the benefit of the doubt to countries that rarely send security problems to the US.

The so famous and reliable credit system based on your so secret SSN - Let me catch my breath - And I suppose that countries that disagree with the US would be high risk? Good stuff, I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will always be in sync...How about countries were the US has no experience with? how about countries that are not recognized ny the UN, but are still legal states - are they out of status?

A special exemption should be provided for foreign beneficiaries who've been convicted of political or other crimes that would NOT be considered crimes in the US. In these cases, the normal system of examining police reports would go into effect.

lol, so kind of you

I think these changes would get the K visa process down to a couple of months for most people, since the documents would only need to be rubber stamped in many cases.

Feel free to rip these ideas to shreds!

See my comments above. What's your background? Have you travelled AND mixed yourself with local crews? You are scary, you gave me some good goosebumps - F me!

I am ready to be shredded to

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'm going to do something I don't usually do on internet forums, and I'm going to pontificate on a political subject, because this particular subject has become important to me.

The best way to streamline the K visa immigration process is to eliminate the things that currently slow it down; the potential for fraud and security risks.

The potential for fraud can be eliminated by removing the motive for fraud, which is to use the K visa primarily for the purpose of immigration rather than marriage. Fraudsters like the K visa because there is no annual quota, so they can get to the US in a matter of months rather than years. The current system is based on perceived intent, and puts the onus on USCIS and DoS to determine if the intent of the petitioner and/or beneficiary are sincere. The amount of scrutiny each case receives causes a bottleneck, and slows everything down.

Ok, fine. Leave the K visa without an annual quota, and allow beneficiary's to come to the US as quickly as possible. However, make them wait as long as other family members would have to wait before getting permanent legal status in the US. The green card should be temporary for 10 years. If they divorce during that 10 years, they have to return to their home country. If they accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse during that 10 year period (this is a HUGE loophole in the current law), then they still have to return to their home country. However, in that event, the US citizen spouse is required to pay their travel expenses, and also required to pay them spousal support (alimony) until the 10 year period is ended. USCIS can use the IRS to enforce the payments.

These changes would eliminate the motive to marry a US citizen, and then promptly divorce them when they get their 10 year green card or US citizenship. It would also eliminate foreign spouses who falsely accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse just to skip the 2 year wait, and go straight to adjustment of status. No more shortcuts to permanent residency. A couple who are sincere would have no problem accepting these conditions, because they have every intention of staying together.

A couple would no longer have to provide proof of ongoing relationship, nor have such proof scrutinized by the consulate. They're signing a contract to stay together for 10 years or abandon their claim to permanent residency. That should establish their intent to have a long term relationship, and it should be accepted without question by the consulate.

Also, eliminate all of the ####### required to prove that the couple have physically met within two years. Have the US consulate or embassy in the beneficiary's country issue a certification at the US citizens services unit. The couple only needs to go to the embassy or consulate together and get the certificate - bingo, they have proof they've met.

For security, require the beneficiary's country of origin to provide a guarantee that the beneficiary is not a security threat. This would work like a credit system. Where there is a low incidence of immigrants from a particular country getting into any legal trouble in the US, the country of origin would have a high security credit rating, meaning their security guarantee would be given a high degree of credibility. The more immigrants from a particular country get in trouble in the US, the lower the security credit rating of that country goes, and the less credibility their guarantee is given. At some threshold, the guarantee becomes worthless, and lengthy security checks go into force. This system would give the benefit of the doubt to countries that rarely send security problems to the US.

A special exemption should be provided for foreign beneficiaries who've been convicted of political or other crimes that would NOT be considered crimes in the US. In these cases, the normal system of examining police reports would go into effect.

I think these changes would get the K visa process down to a couple of months for most people, since the documents would only need to be rubber stamped in many cases.

Feel free to rip these ideas to shreds!

OK. The legal process of family visas is a tiny portion of immigration, so anything spent in reform in this area is basically a waste of time for a politician wanting "bang for the buck". The OP will vote for Obama again if Obama will do something to benefit him. Big surprise. I doubt it. Obama can easily do something to benefit 300 times the people and he doesn't care about you or your vote. He cares about the big picture and you are but a pixel. It is such small potatoes and will not win enough votes to draw his interest, sorry. He has bigger issues which mean more votes. We can only hope he doesn't turn healtcare into a USCIS type agency.

If he wants immigration reform, here is how to do it (and it WILL speed up K-1 processing as a side affect)....

End all this "legal" and "illegal" worker BS. Make it "taxable" and "non-taxable" workers. If you hire an undocumented alien, the tax for that is $500,000 per day per worker. Simple. NOW, the IRS can file a tax lein, without court action, (Daboyz can tell you about this) on any business or individual. Hire an undocumented worker to mow the lawn at your mansion? Lose the mansion! Hire undocumented workers to pluck chickens for $25 a day...the chicken business is closed and sold for taxes.

Undocumented workers are here, and GOT here, for economic gain. They found a way here, paid to get here because they make more money and send it home. If I was in a poor country and the United States was just across the fence and I could do better for my family with minimal risk, what do think I would do? But when you END the economic incentive, the same undocumented workers will find a way home, just like they found a way here. They will RUN home. This will end the whole incentive to get here or avoid the process with a phoney K-1 or K-3. Essentially the the whole "fraud" issue disappears. Your fiancee is not going to come here, dump you and work cleaning hotel rooms somewhere illegally and she will not be able to get a green card for more than two years, so what happens to the incentive for fraud? Gone. This makes this post "on topic" for anyone that doesn't like the content otherwise. And I agree that Bobby's post was also "on topic", get over it.

At the same time issue temporary work visas for law abiding foreign citizens for a nominal fee and let them come and work at a decent wage and compete with Americans for jobs on a equal footing. This helps us and them. They will receive a fair wage and better working and living conditions and not be abused by employers, because they will be LEGAL, plus they will pay into a our SS system for which they will never collect as they will not be in the system long enough. We need the money. Our minimum wage level workers will compete with foreign minimum wage level workers dollar for dollar. If the cannot compete with native speaking, native educated workers for the same wage, they can go back home and call it a good try. Learn English and come back again.

It will never happen because Republicans need an underclass to work cheap for big business (and small business) and the Democrats need an underclass to be dependent on government and create a demand for government.

There will be NO substantial change in immigration policy, neither party can afford it. The only thing we may see is some sort of amnesty for the people already here, which won't help you (the OP) at all. There will be smoke and mirrors and wasted money on more fence which looks good on the TV news.

It will never happen.

[rmncm 0]

I hope he doesn't change a thing accually. I personally think they are doing a great job keeping us safe from would be bombers at our malls and such. Heck if they cut corners and didn't do back ground checks then who is not to say that we wouldnt start seeing car bombings,beheadings or worse. I'll be hated for this accually but when it comes to someone coming from a country with known extreamist and such, the file should go into a mandatory 12 month AP regardless of age,race.religion or sex. I could go on about how things should be but hey I'm just one voice out of millions and have no real say in our goverment.

Edited May 30, 2009 by rmncm

[OKIE2 0]

I agree with Bobby, Gary & Alla, & Jim

THUMBS UP FOR ALL OF THEM ! ! !

Some times the truth hurts live with it.

Jim's ideas are good for the protection of the us citizen which are not good now.

have you read the condictions of the I-134 or the I-864 and see how far

your neck is stuck out to be cut off by any one that wants to take you

for all your worth for the rest of you life. all they have to do is never get a job or citizenship

and your screwed for a long long time. and also can't do another K1.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm going to do something I don't usually do on internet forums, and I'm going to pontificate on a political subject, because this particular subject has become important to me.

The best way to streamline the K visa immigration process is to eliminate the things that currently slow it down; the potential for fraud and security risks.

The potential for fraud can be eliminated by removing the motive for fraud, which is to use the K visa primarily for the purpose of immigration rather than marriage. Fraudsters like the K visa because there is no annual quota, so they can get to the US in a matter of months rather than years. The current system is based on perceived intent, and puts the onus on USCIS and DoS to determine if the intent of the petitioner and/or beneficiary are sincere. The amount of scrutiny each case receives causes a bottleneck, and slows everything down.

Why/how would there be a quota? People from different cultures meet, that's globalization, they want to live happy and decide to come to your country - how do you pick which couple is eligible? First in first served basis? Screw that - No such things as trying to control evolution -

You missed the point entirely. Most immigrant visa categories DO have quotas. K type visas are one of the few categories that do not. I'm not suggesting that be changed.

Ok, fine. Leave the K visa without an annual quota, and allow beneficiary's to come to the US as quickly as possible. However, make them wait as long as other family members would have to wait before getting permanent legal status in the US. The green card should be temporary for 10 years. If they divorce during that 10 years, they have to return to their home country. If they accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse during that 10 year period (this is a HUGE loophole in the current law), then they still have to return to their home country. However, in that event, the US citizen spouse is required to pay their travel expenses, and also required to pay them spousal support (alimony) until the 10 year period is ended. USCIS can use the IRS to enforce the payments.

Green card temporary for 10 years upon what deportation if divorce/abuse happens - do you actually realize what you are saying here? What if am happy for 6 years and my wife and myself meet someone else and decide to go ahead with it - but within 3 years I was naturalized since I love it here, I am successful, and contribute to the country's prosperity - In a country built upon immigration, this is hard to swallow

Yes, I realize exactly what I'm saying. The US is a very attractive destination to people who come from countries with widespread poverty. Many people in those countries would do literally anything to be able to come to the US and stay, including paying off an American to marry them, or persuading an American that they love them and want to marry them. Fraud is widespread in poverty stricken countries, and it makes it abundantly difficult for those of us with sincere relationships with people from those countries. We have to endure having our fiance(e)'s treated like criminals by consulate staff, accused of being liars, repeated delays and demands for additional proof or documents that have already been submitted several times, and often seeing the applications denied and sent back to USCIS with the presumption that the relationship is a sham.

But, I guess that doesn't bother you much, since it's relatively easy to immigrate here from Europe.

These changes would eliminate the motive to marry a US citizen, and then promptly divorce them when they get their 10 year green card or US citizenship. It would also eliminate foreign spouses who falsely accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse just to skip the 2 year wait, and go straight to adjustment of status. No more shortcuts to permanent residency. A couple who are sincere would have no problem accepting these conditions, because they have every intention of staying together.

How do you justify that I am allowed to be part of a country with no right to vote in federal/national elections where a good portion of the population would be in the same case - about the fake abuses, who other than psychiatrists are able to judge - let's put that in place - For the sincere couple being to accept these terms - I wouldn't be, I can't sit on my civil rights for 10 years, this is against my definition of immigration

You're being allowed to be here does not equate to your having the right to be here. That right must be earned. Family members other than spouses and fiances from poor countries often wait more than a decade before they can come here and begin to earn that right. For example, if you were a naturalized US citizen with an adult sister born and living in the Philippines, you'd have to have applied for her visa in 1986 or before in order for her to be eligible to come here now and adjust status. This is because of the quota system I mentioned, that sets a cap on the total number of visas issued to 4th class family members (your sister would be 4th class), and limits the number from any one country to 7% of the total. That gives your sister a VERY strong motive to marry an American. There are a lot of girls in those countries ready and willing to engage in visa fraud to come here. I'm suggesting a system that would allow them to come to the US and spend that time waiting here instead of there. If they're genuinely in love, they'll happily wait for permanent legal status as long as they can wait in the US with their love. If they're a fraudster, they'd just as soon wait for the F class visa.

As far as fake claims of abuse, do a google search for "vawa immigration fraud". This problem is huge, and it's very often women from poverty stricken countries who perpetrate the fraud. This is a sticky problem to solve. Spouses need to be protected from abuse, but it's just too easy to use VAWA laws to nullify a sham marriage and still keep the immigration benefits. You think 10 years is a long time? These girls won't even wait two or three years! The only compromise I could think of was to make the US citizen pay support while still supporting the foreign spouse (or ex spouse). If you've got a better solution, I'd love to hear it.

A couple would no longer have to provide proof of ongoing relationship, nor have such proof scrutinized by the consulate. They're signing a contract to stay together for 10 years or abandon their claim to permanent residency. That should establish their intent to have a long term relationship, and it should be accepted without question by the consulate.

hahahahhahahha, sure, think about it more than 10seconds next time

When you're done laughing feel free to elaborate.

For security, require the beneficiary's country of origin to provide a guarantee that the beneficiary is not a security threat. This would work like a credit system. Where there is a low incidence of immigrants from a particular country getting into any legal trouble in the US, the country of origin would have a high security credit rating, meaning their security guarantee would be given a high degree of credibility. The more immigrants from a particular country get in trouble in the US, the lower the security credit rating of that country goes, and the less credibility their guarantee is given. At some threshold, the guarantee becomes worthless, and lengthy security checks go into force. This system would give the benefit of the doubt to countries that rarely send security problems to the US.

The so famous and reliable credit system based on your so secret SSN - Let me catch my breath - And I suppose that countries that disagree with the US would be high risk? Good stuff, I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will always be in sync...How about countries were the US has no experience with? how about countries that are not recognized ny the UN, but are still legal states - are they out of status?

Were are you getting this stuff? I say "credit", and you presume I'm talking about the FICO score system?

By the way, the FICO system is not "based" on your SSN. It uses the SSN to identify the person. The FICO system was originally developed by the Fair Isaac Corporation (FICO) in the 1950's as a way of ranking bank credit. The three PRIVATE credit rating bureaus in the US use a similar system to rate personal credit.

The system I'm suggesting is not too much different from the system that's being used now. Beneficiaries in high risk countries are automatically placed in AP for security checks. Beneficiaries from low risk countries (like yours) pretty much sail through. Unfortunately, a lot of harmless people from middle eastern and south Asian countries are needlessly help up, while it's perfectly possible to import a dangerous terrorist from FRANCE! What I'm suggesting is to let the government of the foreign country assist in screening applicants. The credit system I suggested would be used to rate the RELIABILITY of the reports the US government receives from each country.

A special exemption should be provided for foreign beneficiaries who've been convicted of political or other crimes that would NOT be considered crimes in the US. In these cases, the normal system of examining police reports would go into effect.

lol, so kind of you

I think these changes would get the K visa process down to a couple of months for most people, since the documents would only need to be rubber stamped in many cases.

Feel free to rip these ideas to shreds!

See my comments above. What's your background? Have you travelled AND mixed yourself with local crews? You are scary, you gave me some good goosebumps - F me!

I am ready to be shredded to

Good, I'm glad you were entertained.

[Ju&Ja 1]

I'm going to do something I don't usually do on internet forums, and I'm going to pontificate on a political subject, because this particular subject has become important to me.

The best way to streamline the K visa immigration process is to eliminate the things that currently slow it down; the potential for fraud and security risks.

The potential for fraud can be eliminated by removing the motive for fraud, which is to use the K visa primarily for the purpose of immigration rather than marriage. Fraudsters like the K visa because there is no annual quota, so they can get to the US in a matter of months rather than years. The current system is based on perceived intent, and puts the onus on USCIS and DoS to determine if the intent of the petitioner and/or beneficiary are sincere. The amount of scrutiny each case receives causes a bottleneck, and slows everything down.

Ok, fine. Leave the K visa without an annual quota, and allow beneficiary's to come to the US as quickly as possible. However, make them wait as long as other family members would have to wait before getting permanent legal status in the US. The green card should be temporary for 10 years. If they divorce during that 10 years, they have to return to their home country. If they accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse during that 10 year period (this is a HUGE loophole in the current law), then they still have to return to their home country. However, in that event, the US citizen spouse is required to pay their travel expenses, and also required to pay them spousal support (alimony) until the 10 year period is ended. USCIS can use the IRS to enforce the payments.

These changes would eliminate the motive to marry a US citizen, and then promptly divorce them when they get their 10 year green card or US citizenship. It would also eliminate foreign spouses who falsely accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse just to skip the 2 year wait, and go straight to adjustment of status. No more shortcuts to permanent residency. A couple who are sincere would have no problem accepting these conditions, because they have every intention of staying together.

A couple would no longer have to provide proof of ongoing relationship, nor have such proof scrutinized by the consulate. They're signing a contract to stay together for 10 years or abandon their claim to permanent residency. That should establish their intent to have a long term relationship, and it should be accepted without question by the consulate.

Also, eliminate all of the ####### required to prove that the couple have physically met within two years. Have the US consulate or embassy in the beneficiary's country issue a certification at the US citizens services unit. The couple only needs to go to the embassy or consulate together and get the certificate - bingo, they have proof they've met.

For security, require the beneficiary's country of origin to provide a guarantee that the beneficiary is not a security threat. This would work like a credit system. Where there is a low incidence of immigrants from a particular country getting into any legal trouble in the US, the country of origin would have a high security credit rating, meaning their security guarantee would be given a high degree of credibility. The more immigrants from a particular country get in trouble in the US, the lower the security credit rating of that country goes, and the less credibility their guarantee is given. At some threshold, the guarantee becomes worthless, and lengthy security checks go into force. This system would give the benefit of the doubt to countries that rarely send security problems to the US.

A special exemption should be provided for foreign beneficiaries who've been convicted of political or other crimes that would NOT be considered crimes in the US. In these cases, the normal system of examining police reports would go into effect.

I think these changes would get the K visa process down to a couple of months for most people, since the documents would only need to be rubber stamped in many cases.

Feel free to rip these ideas to shreds!

What about if a US citizen gets married with a non US citizen, they are truly in love, have baby(ies) and then after 5 years they don't want to be together anymore ? Do you want the mom or the dad (non US citizen) to go back to his/her country ? What about the children ????????

[DaleandPat 0]

I know President Obama is working to reform our immigration system.

Have anyone experience any different so far? Or heard of anything in regard to speeding up the immigration visa process?

A little over a year a go a meat packing house here in Iowa was raided. There were a lot of illegal workers there. Some were deported others were taken to the Federal courthouse for a trial because of using someone elses identity. That is what I heard will be on the Obama agenda. Those the willingly knew they were given stolen identity, stole identity, verses those that did not realize it. The Obama administration wants to be able to make those that were taken advantage of a chance to become US citizens or work permits granted and those that knowingly used someone elses ID are then to be prosecuted. How illegals will be made into US citizens or goven work permits I am not sure. Treating the illegals special just takes away from the people that are submitting visa and so forth the legal way. I have not heard of anything for K1s that the new reform will touch. I guess we will see what happens. It seems like there are millions in the US illegally from Mexico and Central America. I am not sure the Obama administration will really cure the problem or will the situation be worse?

[SuperDuper! 230]

Only thing I have seen, some illegal workers were picked up in the state of Washington, were being processed to be deported, DHS decided that something wasn't right, drove them down to USCIS and gave them all EAD's.

So they went back to work. Even though they are here illegally.

I suppose you could say that speeded up the process for those workers.

Amnesty program in effect??

[rickynlucy 0]

Obama has promised something in regard to immigration next year. There is a private meeting in the whitehouse in the first week of June. Hopefully, we will know more next week.

Just as an FYI- the immigrants in Washington have only temporary visas and work permits and will continue in deportation proceedings after the investigation against their former employer is completed. Funny how most news outlets only tell the 1/2 of the story that will get people upset.

[Arthur Roberta 1]

Personally I feel that immigration reform is indeed well overdue if but to streamline the process. "Problem" in streamlining the process where applicants are processed quicker can the embassies cope with the issuance of increased workload? I very much doubt it!

There is also another factor to consider..legal immigration is perhaps the only control a state has on immigration. Therefore in controlling/slowing legal immigration you are able to effectively have some control on the amount of people coming to your country.

This is also a political factor in that you can honestly say that immigrants backgrounds etc etc are vigorously checked before we allow them entry to the country.

One must also take into account of the vast amount of people employed directly or indirectly for immigration purposes and the vast amount of income this generates. If we streamline the process it could reduce the jobs involved in the process and indeed in some parts of the US where these jobs are invaluable to the local economy.

So when I think of the UK and how free it appears on immigration and see just how crowded the UK has become I wonder if I would opt for a more stringent process to perhaps slow the process down and maybe sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to fraudulent marriage for immigration purposes.

I like many in this process, dislikes a system where I am separated for such a long period, especially when there is not only a human cost (invaluable time together which cannot be replaced) coupled with the financial cost due to separation. But when I weigh up all the factors involved I can see the US's position on immigration. It doesn't mean I like it but it is the system in place and I accept it.

I feel a more compassionate system would be that spouses could visit whilst there individual I-130 was being processed. Once they I-130 has been approved/denied the beneficiary must return to their home country and provide proof of their return. Should the beneficiary fail to return within a specific time frame after the adjudication of the I-130 then the petition is automatically denied.

This I feel would not only show compassion but satisfy those who want to see a rigorous process still enforced. This would in fact assist the US economy in that spouses travelling to the US would spend on airfares etc and also whilst in the country those with individual incomes from abroad would spend in the US whilst supporting their spouses. Finally there would be no impact on immigration job losses and really additional income could be generated as well as jobs to enforce this new process.

Best wishes to all

Arthur and Roberta

[rickynlucy 0]

A little over a year a go a meat packing house here in Iowa was raided. There were a lot of illegal workers there. Some were deported others were taken to the Federal courthouse for a trial because of using someone elses identity. That is what I heard will be on the Obama agenda. Those the willingly knew they were given stolen identity, stole identity, verses those that did not realize it. The Obama administration wants to be able to make those that were taken advantage of a chance to become US citizens or work permits granted and those that knowingly used someone elses ID are then to be prosecuted. How illegals will be made into US citizens or goven work permits I am not sure. Treating the illegals special just takes away from the people that are submitting visa and so forth the legal way. I have not heard of anything for K1s that the new reform will touch. I guess we will see what happens. It seems like there are millions in the US illegally from Mexico and Central America. I am not sure the Obama administration will really cure the problem or will the situation be worse?

I found this article on the results that the raid is having on that community in Iowa. None of the illegals are being given citizenship. They are being allowed to remain in the country to testify against the employer and then they will be placed in deportation proceedings. They are being monitored with ankle bracelets. What Obama has changed is that they will not be charged with identity theft, if they were only coincidentally using an existing number to work, but were not using the identity of the person that the number belonged to.

Apparently there has been a huge chain and several other companies have now closed or lost business as a result. Seems that no one else wants the jobs.

Immigration raid leaves damaging mark on Postville, Iowa

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...0,6761812.story

A year after the crackdown at a kosher meatpacking plant, the town is struggling with the bankrupt business, unemployment and high anxiety.

By Antonio Olivo

May 12, 2009

Reporting from Postville, Iowa -- A hodgepodge crowd gathers here twice a week for handouts just steps from City Hall and an empty kosher deli.

Outside the local food pantry snakes a line of Guatemalans wearing court-ordered ankle monitors, imported workers from the Pacific island of Palau and unemployed town natives -- almost all there because of a dramatic raid that has left a deep mark in the way the U.S. views and deals with illegal immigration.

Since federal helicopters raced over cornfields on May 12, 2008, en route to arresting 389 illegal workers at a sprawling kosher meatpacking plant, what was a center of commerce in northeastern Iowa teeters toward collapse as the plant sputters in bankruptcy, its managers face prison time and the town fights to stay solvent.

Since the landmark raid, an economic squeeze has destroyed several businesses. Postville's population has shrunk by nearly half, to about 1,800 residents, and townsfolk say the resulting anxiety -- felt from the deli to the schoolyard -- has been relentless.

"It's like you're in an oven and there's no place to go and there's no timer to get you out," said former Mayor Robert Penrod, who, overwhelmed, resigned earlier this year.

The aftermath of the Postville raid has rippled across the country, rupturing the nation's kosher meat supply and setting back Midwest livestock farmers who supplied the plant. While advocates of stricter immigration laws argue that towns like Postville shouldn't be allowed to grow so dependent on illegal labor, critics see the raid as a symbol of greater problems with U.S. enforcement. And the fallout has helped spur changes in federal policy.

Last month, the Obama administration issued enforcement guidelines that place more emphasis on prosecuting employers rather than illegal workers. Then last week, in a ruling with clear echoes of the Postville raid, the U.S. Supreme Court required federal prosecutors to prove that someone using a fake ID knew it belonged to a real person before pursuing identity theft charges. Many of the Postville workers were charged with that crime, but they chose to leave the country instead of facing jail time.

"Postville is a stain on our judicial system," said David Leopold, a vice president of the Washington-based American Immigration Lawyers Assn., who argued that the plant workers were unfairly coerced and deprived of adequate legal protections.

In Postville, many resent being in the spotlight. Yet they are frustrated that more hasn't been done to offset the unanticipated damage.

When the meatpacking plant, Agriprocessors Inc., opened in the late 1980s, Orthodox Jews arrived to work as kosher butchers and envisioned a rural paradise for new synagogues and shuls. Migrants, mostly from Guatemala, began arriving in the 1990s -- creating an ethnic stew with natives of mostly Eastern European descent.

After the raid, the family-like community of high school football game gatherings and homey weekend meals inside cafes began to unravel.

Agriprocessors has gone into Chapter 11 bankruptcy and is up for sale with no apparent buyer. After the arrests, the plant recruited Somali refugees from Minneapolis, unemployed laborers from Detroit and then migrants from Palau, whose natives are allowed to work in the U.S. under a 1993 compact. Many of the latter stayed only briefly before leaving, unhappy with their jobs, officials said.

Meanwhile, dozens of Guatemalan women who were arrested and temporarily released by federal officials to care for their children remain in town with pending court cases but unable to work. Nearly all the arrested men were deported.

"We walk on the streets, and the Americans see us as criminals," said Maria Gomez, 31, at a Catholic church where she and others receive assistance, including help treating physical problems from their clunky ankle monitors.

Former City Councilman Aaron Goldsmith, an Orthodox rabbi, fumed over the damage. "We still haven't done anything about illegal immigration" in the state, he said. "All we've done is devastate northeastern Iowa."

Many Orthodox Jews also were severely affected by the raid, as businesses that fed off Agriprocessors closed and families moved away, Goldsmith said.

A state trial against the plant managers is set for August; and a federal trial, set for September, includes charges of bank fraud and 9,311 labor violations.

Roy Beck, head of the Washington-based NumbersUSA group that advocates for reducing immigration, argued that Postville invited its problems by relying so heavily on a plant many suspected was violating labor and immigration laws.

"The situation should have never gotten to that point," he said. "If you don't enforce the laws steadily, then when you suddenly enforce them, there is more collateral damage."

[Kinito_2k3 5]

I'm going to do something I don't usually do on internet forums, and I'm going to pontificate on a political subject, because this particular subject has become important to me.

The best way to streamline the K visa immigration process is to eliminate the things that currently slow it down; the potential for fraud and security risks.

The potential for fraud can be eliminated by removing the motive for fraud, which is to use the K visa primarily for the purpose of immigration rather than marriage. Fraudsters like the K visa because there is no annual quota, so they can get to the US in a matter of months rather than years. The current system is based on perceived intent, and puts the onus on USCIS and DoS to determine if the intent of the petitioner and/or beneficiary are sincere. The amount of scrutiny each case receives causes a bottleneck, and slows everything down.

Why/how would there be a quota? People from different cultures meet, that's globalization, they want to live happy and decide to come to your country - how do you pick which couple is eligible? First in first served basis? Screw that - No such things as trying to control evolution -

You missed the point entirely. Most immigrant visa categories DO have quotas. K type visas are one of the few categories that do not. I'm not suggesting that be changed.

Right, I missed your point...I got mislead by your following sentence "Ok fine, leave the K visa without quota".

Ok, fine. Leave the K visa without an annual quota, and allow beneficiary's to come to the US as quickly as possible. However, make them wait as long as other family members would have to wait before getting permanent legal status in the US. The green card should be temporary for 10 years. If they divorce during that 10 years, they have to return to their home country. If they accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse during that 10 year period (this is a HUGE loophole in the current law), then they still have to return to their home country. However, in that event, the US citizen spouse is required to pay their travel expenses, and also required to pay them spousal support (alimony) until the 10 year period is ended. USCIS can use the IRS to enforce the payments.

Green card temporary for 10 years upon what deportation if divorce/abuse happens - do you actually realize what you are saying here? What if am happy for 6 years and my wife and myself meet someone else and decide to go ahead with it - but within 3 years I was naturalized since I love it here, I am successful, and contribute to the country's prosperity - In a country built upon immigration, this is hard to swallow

Yes, I realize exactly what I'm saying. The US is a very attractive destination to people who come from countries with widespread poverty. Many people in those countries would do literally anything to be able to come to the US and stay, including paying off an American to marry them, or persuading an American that they love them and want to marry them. Fraud is widespread in poverty stricken countries, and it makes it abundantly difficult for those of us with sincere relationships with people from those countries. We have to endure having our fiance(e)'s treated like criminals by consulate staff, accused of being liars, repeated delays and demands for additional proof or documents that have already been submitted several times, and often seeing the applications denied and sent back to USCIS with the presumption that the relationship is a sham.

But, I guess that doesn't bother you much, since it's relatively easy to immigrate here from Europe.

I understand, never thought of it that way - I do not have the feeling that it's a USCIS issue though - Your solution is too radical for me but I can see something along these lines working

These changes would eliminate the motive to marry a US citizen, and then promptly divorce them when they get their 10 year green card or US citizenship. It would also eliminate foreign spouses who falsely accuse their US citizen spouse of abuse just to skip the 2 year wait, and go straight to adjustment of status. No more shortcuts to permanent residency. A couple who are sincere would have no problem accepting these conditions, because they have every intention of staying together.

How do you justify that I am allowed to be part of a country with no right to vote in federal/national elections where a good portion of the population would be in the same case - about the fake abuses, who other than psychiatrists are able to judge - let's put that in place - For the sincere couple being to accept these terms - I wouldn't be, I can't sit on my civil rights for 10 years, this is against my definition of immigration

You're being allowed to be here does not equate to your having the right to be here. That right must be earned. Family members other than spouses and fiances from poor countries often wait more than a decade before they can come here and begin to earn that right. For example, if you were a naturalized US citizen with an adult sister born and living in the Philippines, you'd have to have applied for her visa in 1986 or before in order for her to be eligible to come here now and adjust status. This is because of the quota system I mentioned, that sets a cap on the total number of visas issued to 4th class family members (your sister would be 4th class), and limits the number from any one country to 7% of the total. That gives your sister a VERY strong motive to marry an American. There are a lot of girls in those countries ready and willing to engage in visa fraud to come here. I'm suggesting a system that would allow them to come to the US and spend that time waiting here instead of there. If they're genuinely in love, they'll happily wait for permanent legal status as long as they can wait in the US with their love. If they're a fraudster, they'd just as soon wait for the F class visa.

I see your point, I was just saying that I don't want to have to wait 10 years to get the "rights" of being here, it creates integration problems as I wouldn't feel part of a country that I chose to be part of. But maybe you guys are not bothered by your right of vote, I am

As far as fake claims of abuse, do a google search for "vawa immigration fraud". This problem is huge, and it's very often women from poverty stricken countries who perpetrate the fraud. This is a sticky problem to solve. Spouses need to be protected from abuse, but it's just too easy to use VAWA laws to nullify a sham marriage and still keep the immigration benefits. You think 10 years is a long time? These girls won't even wait two or three years! The only compromise I could think of was to make the US citizen pay support while still supporting the foreign spouse (or ex spouse). If you've got a better solution, I'd love to hear it.

Is there any structure for the spouse to report a fraudulent VAWA claim? That would be my starting point maybe, creating such authority, in charge of assessing and investigating each individual cases - during the investigation, the VAWA fraudster could not remain in the country until proven non fraudulent.

A couple would no longer have to provide proof of ongoing relationship, nor have such proof scrutinized by the consulate. They're signing a contract to stay together for 10 years or abandon their claim to permanent residency. That should establish their intent to have a long term relationship, and it should be accepted without question by the consulate.

hahahahhahahha, sure, think about it more than 10seconds next time

When you're done laughing feel free to elaborate.

Unfortunately this doesn't prove intent at all - And I can see how, to go back to your fraud issue, this would create situations where people could get paid during 10 years to bring someone over here and remain legally married. Also, how do you address the issue of couples that just don't last that much, and what about in case of the death of the USC?

For security, require the beneficiary's country of origin to provide a guarantee that the beneficiary is not a security threat. This would work like a credit system. Where there is a low incidence of immigrants from a particular country getting into any legal trouble in the US, the country of origin would have a high security credit rating, meaning their security guarantee would be given a high degree of credibility. The more immigrants from a particular country get in trouble in the US, the lower the security credit rating of that country goes, and the less credibility their guarantee is given. At some threshold, the guarantee becomes worthless, and lengthy security checks go into force. This system would give the benefit of the doubt to countries that rarely send security problems to the US.

The so famous and reliable credit system based on your so secret SSN - Let me catch my breath - And I suppose that countries that disagree with the US would be high risk? Good stuff, I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will always be in sync...How about countries were the US has no experience with? how about countries that are not recognized ny the UN, but are still legal states - are they out of status?

Were are you getting this stuff? I say "credit", and you presume I'm talking about the FICO score system?

By the way, the FICO system is not "based" on your SSN. It uses the SSN to identify the person. The FICO system was originally developed by the Fair Isaac Corporation (FICO) in the 1950's as a way of ranking bank credit. The three PRIVATE credit rating bureaus in the US use a similar system to rate personal credit.

The system I'm suggesting is not too much different from the system that's being used now. Beneficiaries in high risk countries are automatically placed in AP for security checks. Beneficiaries from low risk countries (like yours) pretty much sail through. Unfortunately, a lot of harmless people from middle eastern and south Asian countries are needlessly help up, while it's perfectly possible to import a dangerous terrorist from FRANCE! What I'm suggesting is to let the government of the foreign country assist in screening applicants. The credit system I suggested would be used to rate the RELIABILITY of the reports the US government receives from each country.

Just to clarify on the credit system being based on your SSN - If someone get my SSN, he can easily screw my credit - It's enough for me to say that it's based on my SSN, although in essence you are right it's not. I just feel that it's a prehistoric and unfair rating system and the recent events are the best examples to support my argument.

Now, what would be the incentive for my/any government to help the US in the immigration process? This is costly and has no added value for the country of origin. How do you deal with corruption, it's everywhere, in any country, I don't see how you can rate the "reliability"

A special exemption should be provided for foreign beneficiaries who've been convicted of political or other crimes that would NOT be considered crimes in the US. In these cases, the normal system of examining police reports would go into effect.

lol, so kind of you

I think these changes would get the K visa process down to a couple of months for most people, since the documents would only need to be rubber stamped in many cases.

Feel free to rip these ideas to shreds!

See my comments above.

I am ready to be shredded to0

Good, I'm glad you were entertained.

It's actually an interesting topic

Edited May 30, 2009 by Kinito_2k3

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

What about if a US citizen gets married with a non US citizen, they are truly in love, have baby(ies) and then after 5 years they don't want to be together anymore ? Do you want the mom or the dad (non US citizen) to go back to his/her country ? What about the children ????????

Yes, I think they should have to return to their home country. This would not be punitive. It would be handled just as if their status was running out. They'd still be free to return to the US to visit, or seek a different route to immigration. If the foreign parent is from a country where it's difficult to get a visitors visa to the US, and if the foreign parent complied with immigration laws while they were in the US, then they should be allowed to get a visitors visa more or less automatically since they've already proven their willingness to abide by the law. We give people negative strikes for having a criminal record - we should give them positive credit for compliance with the law.

Divorce sucks, and it sucks double for kids. Having a foreign parent doesn't make this any easier or harder on the kids. Many US citizen couples divorce and move far away from each other, making visitations difficult for the kids. My brother has been married 3 times. None of his ex-wives live in the same state as each other, and none of them live in the same state my brother now lives in.

Yes, having to wait 10 years for legal status sucks for people who enter a relationship with sincere intentions, and that relationship ends unexpectedly. However, the current system sucks for everyone except fraudsters who get precisely what they originally set out to get.

There are two problems that need to be addressed here. The first is immigrant spouses who plan from the very beginning to seek a divorce as soon as they get legal status in the US. I realize this is pretty rare with immigrants from France (Gerard Depardieu movies aside), but it is VERY common with immigrants from 3rd world countries. In some cases, the US citizen spouse was in on the plan from the beginning (like the movie), but in most cases the US citizen spouse was being 'played' by the foreign spouse. I've heard anecdotal evidence that the number of fraud spouses from some countries is as high as 90%. Nobody knows for sure because you'd have to be able to read the hearts of the intending immigrant. I do know that there are large support networks in the high fraud countries that help educate potential immigrants in US immigration law, and many many services that specialize in hooking these people up with potential American spouses. Why do you think there are many hundreds of web sites that specialize in introducing Americans to girls in southeast Asia, the Pacific Islands, and former Soviet states? How many such sites are there for girls from Europe to meet Americans? Anyone with a fiance(e) or spouse in a high fraud country will most certainly have come across many of these sites while researching the visa process, and probably also found many more sites dedicated to helping US citizen victims of fraudsters from these countries.

The US consulates in these countries start with the assumption that EVERY applicant is one of these fraudsters. This makes it very difficult for those of us with sincere relationships. It doesn't take a lot longer to go through the visa process in one of these countries, but the rate of denials is FAR higher than in low fraud countries, and sincere applicants are denied just as often as fraudulent ones. The ten year time period I'm suggesting would dramatically reduce the number of fraudsters since there would no longer be any incentive to choosing a fraudulent K visa over a legal F visa. In fact, if they chose the K visa then they'd end up having to be married to someone they didn't love for 10 years before they had legal status. Most with legitimate relationships would happily accept the terms because it wouldn't significantly change their lives in the US, and would make the visa process much easier.

The second problem is that the current laws provide motives for people who are in the US illegally to have children while they're here. These are commonly called "anchor babies", and they give the the illegal parents preferential immigration status. I didn't address this in the changes I proposed because I was focusing on visa fraud rather than illegal immigration.