25% national sales tax would pay for universal health care, balance the budget and exempt most Americans from the income tax

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

This is an actual title from a Fox News story on the VAT.

Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid of the Obama Administration’s Scary Trial Balloon

Yeah, FOX did a three hour expose today, when they ran out of material on Sotomayor. Didn't watch. MSNBC was still doing their lovefest. Didn't watch that either. I went outside, and did something useful.

[Danno 1,228]

It's a little scary that people would accept one big tax under the agreement that it will replace other taxes.

The only tax pledge from a politician one can count on is a pledge to raise taxes.

This is the main reason I instinctively reject the FLAT TAX idea, not long after the flat tax is implemented they will have some "emergency" .... or there will be some "heart warming" reason to add an income tax .... maybe on the rich at first but then slowly we are all paying a flat (or VAT) tax plus an income tax. (or some other clever tax).

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

This is the main reason I instinctively reject the FLAT TAX idea, not long after the flat tax is implemented they will have some "emergency" .... or there will be some "heart warming" reason to add an income tax .... maybe on the rich at first but then slowly we are all paying a flat (or VAT) tax plus an income tax. (or some other clever tax).

From the original article (not part of the posted excerpt):

"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."

[mawilson 2,133]

The only tax pledge from a politician one can count on is a pledge to raise taxes.

Also beware of anything called "tax simplification"

[spookyturtle 9,466]

If there was an exemption amount per person (say $12,000), I think it could be workable.

How do you work an excemption with a consumption tax? I suppose you could send everyone a check once a year, but that means collecting more tax to pay for the refunds, and keeping something like the IRS around.

That's essentially what Mike Huckabee was proposing. I listened to him on radio interview back during the campaign and he explained there would be some kind of refund check given to everyone.

Don't let Marc hear that. You know how he hates handouts.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Except if it was done here it would just go on top of our current taxes, not eliminate them. You know those damn Dimocrats, they have to pay for all that spending somehow.

Yup. They won't eliminate any taxes, only create more.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

VW won't be logging on till later. Let's wait till then to make every thread about her.

Someone's paying spooky to constantly talk about me for no reason. However, the idea of a time set aside to discuss me isn't a bad idea.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Anything to rid ourselves of the IRS would be welcome. Jeez, I am just a middle class nobody with a simple lifestyle and doing my taxes is a royal pain in the azz.

Darn revenooers won't ever go away.

When was the last time the government shuttered a government agency? The IRS isn't just an agency anyway; it's a federal weapon. It's not going anywhere.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

VW won't be logging on till later. Let's wait till then to make every thread about her.

Someone's paying spooky to constantly talk about me for no reason. However, the idea of a time set aside to discuss me isn't a bad idea.

Perhaps one of your disgruntled servants?

[Danno 1,228]

Anything to rid ourselves of the IRS would be welcome. Jeez, I am just a middle class nobody with a simple lifestyle and doing my taxes is a royal pain in the azz.

Darn revenooers won't ever go away.

When was the last time the government shuttered a government agency? The IRS isn't just an agency anyway; it's a federal weapon. It's not going anywhere.

Talk about "dream-world".... anyone who even entertains the idea that somehow... some way, the IRS is going to do anything but grow, does not grasp the essential nature of Government , All government, ..... anything larger than a small, Home Owners Association.

[Kar98 0]

Anything to rid ourselves of the IRS would be welcome. Jeez, I am just a middle class nobody with a simple lifestyle and doing my taxes is a royal pain in the azz.

Darn revenooers won't ever go away.

When was the last time the government shuttered a government agency? The IRS isn't just an agency anyway; it's a federal weapon. It's not going anywhere.

Amongst others: the Freedman's Bureau, the United States Metric Board, the Steamboat Inspection Service, the Office of Censorship ...

[Saddle Bronc 124]

This is an actual title from a Fox News story on the VAT.

Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid of the Obama Administration’s Scary Trial Balloon

Given Canada's experience with GST, this article is on the nail!

[Anna C. 4]

In Germany there's a 19% sales tax, and 7% on food. And guess what? Health care is still extra and costs 15.5% of your gross income.

Exactly. And they keep raising everything. That is the reality of the beast, so I am strongly opposed to this. People buy way less than here, with a tendency to consume less and less... When I was working in Germany, I couldn't afford a lot, cause I was single, no dependents and paid about 55% of my income for social security, health insurance (which is not as glorious as people might think - Kaiser PErmanente rendered better services) and income tax. No room for fancy food, going out much etc. I have WAY more spendable money here in the US.

If someone wants this, please move to Europe, Austria has an even higher VAT than Germany (over 20%!).

[Kar98 0]

... When I was working in Germany, I couldn't afford a lot, cause I was single, no dependents and paid about 55% of my income for social security, health insurance...

Same here. And it was always about closing tax "loopholes" in the name of "fairness".

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

In Germany there's a 19% sales tax, and 7% on food. And guess what? Health care is still extra and costs 15.5% of your gross income.

Exactly. And they keep raising everything. That is the reality of the beast, so I am strongly opposed to this. People buy way less than here, with a tendency to consume less and less... When I was working in Germany, I couldn't afford a lot, cause I was single, no dependents and paid about 55% of my income for social security, health insurance (which is not as glorious as people might think - Kaiser PErmanente rendered better services) and income tax. No room for fancy food, going out much etc. I have WAY more spendable money here in the US.

If someone wants this, please move to Europe, Austria has an even higher VAT than Germany (over 20%!).

This is key. Not being able to buy things can be spinned as not being consumerist and what-not, but what it translates to for anyone not wearing rose tinted goggles is being poor.

Do you want to be poor? I don't.