Whether to put older child on K-1?

[Waitinggent 2]

My fiance plans to come to the USA in 2010 after her son graduates high school. He will be 17. The plan is for him to go to college in Ukraine, but certainly my fiance would like him to be able to come to the USA to visit, and possibly keep the option open for him to live here. What are the requirements for him being physically in the USA in order to get a conditional green card and green card?

Additional questions:

1) Must the child arrive with the mother when she comes on the K-1, and if not, when must he arrive?

2) What would you suggest I do in this situation?

Thanks,

Tom

[pushbrk 12,898]

My fiance plans to come to the USA in 2010 after her son graduates high school. He will be 17. The plan is for him to go to college in Ukraine, but certainly my fiance would like him to be able to come to the USA to visit, and possibly keep the option open for him to live here. What are the requirements for him being physically in the USA in order to get a conditional green card and green card?

Additional questions:

1) Must the child arrive with the mother when she comes on the K-1, and if not, when must he arrive?

2) What would you suggest I do in this situation?

Thanks,

Tom

The I-129F asks for a list of all children, not a list of children coming to the USA. Just let the truth be your guide. To arrive as K2, he must follow to join within a year of his mother's visa issue. If he does not, you will shoot yourself in the foot unless your marriage takes place before her son is 18.

[Anh map 2,098]

There are VJ members (Gary & Alla) that are going through similar circumstances right now. Look for his input.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiance plans to come to the USA in 2010 after her son graduates high school. He will be 17. The plan is for him to go to college in Ukraine, but certainly my fiance would like him to be able to come to the USA to visit, and possibly keep the option open for him to live here. What are the requirements for him being physically in the USA in order to get a conditional green card and green card?

Additional questions:

1) Must the child arrive with the mother when she comes on the K-1, and if not, when must he arrive?

2) What would you suggest I do in this situation?

Thanks,

Tom

We are doing this exact thing with our oldest son, a college student in Moscow (Ukrainian citizen). Since your fiancee plans to stay until he graduates you could do a K2 visa at the same time as her K1 and he can come with her, adjust status and return to Ukraine for school. If he is going for under 12 months and will return for summer or for vacations he will not need an advance parole once he has a green card.

The AOS process can take longer than the summer, so I would file for an adanvce parole for him as soon as possible if he comes with her. It was another option we explored, but chose against because of the timing.

We delayed the arrival of our oldest son as he was just beginning this school year when Alla came. He can follow on a K2 visa within one year of the issuance of the K1 and this is what we did for him. We have already completed AOS for my wife and younger son. Tomorrow I have an infopass appointment to clear the way for his AOS when he arrives. We have been told, and I will verify tomorrow, that when he arrives we can take his I-485 directly to the local office and do the biometrics and he will have his green card in 2-3 weeks. We will see. We have been told this is possible as he is a K2 to follow and all other paperwork for the family is complete. Provided this is verified I will go ahead and schedule the biometrics appointment tomorrow.

Some tips....

1. Make sure he has his own passport. If he is under 18 he does not NEED this, but it is SO much easier if he just has his own, especially if he plans to return for school without your (then) wife.

2. Over age 16 he will need form DS-157, though Kiev neglects to tell you this in their packet.

3. Over 18 he will need his student deferrment from compulsory military service, and translation of course. They don't tell you this either, except to say he needs his "military papers".

4. Over age 16 he needs a police certificate

Other...

Get his school transcripts from Ukraine, even if he intends to go back there for college. At some point you will need those translated and evaluated so whatever diplomas and degrees he earns there are transferable to the USA. He may or may not decide to live in the USA all his life, but it is best to give him that opportunity with a green card and future ability to be a US citizen. I know both our sons desire to become citizens and then make choices about where they will live and work. MUCH more opportunities for US citizens than Ukrainian citizens. Sorry to say, but true.

PS Both say they will become citizens then go back to Ukraine to find a girl to marry! LOL

There are VJ members (Gary & Alla) that are going through similar circumstances right now. Look for his input.

And thanks to Anh Map for PMing this topic to me.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiance plans to come to the USA in 2010 after her son graduates high school. He will be 17. The plan is for him to go to college in Ukraine, but certainly my fiance would like him to be able to come to the USA to visit, and possibly keep the option open for him to live here. What are the requirements for him being physically in the USA in order to get a conditional green card and green card?

Additional questions:

1) Must the child arrive with the mother when she comes on the K-1, and if not, when must he arrive?

2) What would you suggest I do in this situation?

Thanks,

Tom

Suggestions of personal matters are difficult to make. Our sons immediately recognized the possibilites a US green card and future citizenship would hold, and were (and are) very anxious to have those opportunities, though to different degrees. The 14 year old is thinking in terms of living in Florida and hauling pretty girls in bikinis in his pickup truck. We live in Vermont but he says we can visit in the winter. Thanks. Be that as it may...if he is reluctant, and he may be at the age, try to impress upon him the great opportunity it represents. For a Ukrainian, unfortunately because of the travel restrictions they face getting visas, it literally opens another half of the world, or more, for them. Americans are so spoiled by free travel we have no idea what it is like for people in many countries routinely barred from even visiting.

So I would suggest you find a way to get him here and get him a PR status at least. If you do it at the same time or later (within one year, that is a very definite cut off) doesn't matter. But definitely do it!

For what its worth, the youngest son is back in Ukraine with Mom right now and is the local celebrity in the neighborhood and even brought an American football to enlighten the heathens as to what football REALLY is. He was promoted from 8th grade to 10th grade after only a few weeks in school here and promoted out early so he could return with his Mom. Because he does not have his own passport. Get one! My wife is getting one for him on this trip.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My fiance plans to come to the USA in 2010 after her son graduates high school. He will be 17. The plan is for him to go to college in Ukraine, but certainly my fiance would like him to be able to come to the USA to visit, and possibly keep the option open for him to live here. What are the requirements for him being physically in the USA in order to get a conditional green card and green card?

Additional questions:

1) Must the child arrive with the mother when she comes on the K-1, and if not, when must he arrive?

2) What would you suggest I do in this situation?

Thanks,

Tom

Also, sorry for so many posts...anyway, fill in your timeline and personal portal information. Then every topic you start in any forum will appear in the "Ukraine portal" and you will get lots of good country specific answers to go along with great answers from Anh Map, Pushbrk, and others. when you sign in to VJ, go to the "Portals" tab and it takes you to all posts from "Ukraine members" so you can learn the latest about things with the Ukraine consulate.

Good luck

[Neonred 3,564]

Good advice here. My step-daughter came her initially on a K-2 3 months after her mother arrived. If I knew then what I know now we would have done the AOS immediately. We didn't and after 2 months she left to continue her studies at a Russian university. The following year we tried to have her arrive on a J-1 student work and travel visa but she was denied. This month she was successful obtaining a 2 year B-2 tourist visa even while she has an active immigration petition. Next year her mother will be eligible for citizenship and we will upgrade her petition and hope she can be here permanently if she wants.

[Waitinggent 2]

Thanks so much for responding. Our situations are extremely similar, as my fiance is Ukrainian but lives in Russia (St. Petersburg), so her son may also be going to the university in Russia. I want to be sure that I understand everything correctly, as what you wrote sounds too good to be true. If I understand you correctly, we have 2 choices:

1) He comes with the mother, but since the AOS takes too long, he can get advanced parole in order to return for the start of the university. My question here is whether her son must return to the USA when the mother has her interview for the AOS? If no, can it hurt his mother's chances for AOS if the son spent so little time in the USA and plans to go to the university in Russia/Ukraine. If the son arrived with mother, will he automatically get AOS if the mother gets it, regardless of whether he is currently in the USA?

2) He can come within 12 months of the K-1. This is 12 months from issuance of the K-1 or 12 months from her US entry? If I understand you correctly, your oldest son has never been in the USA, but simply needs to come here for 2-3 weeks to get his AOS because his mother already has it? He needs no interview and it doesn't matter that he just arrived and will be leaving soon?

Additional questions:

1) How long is the conditional green card good for, and will the son have difficulty getting a permanent green card if the has not been living in the USA?

2) Can my fiance choose where she is interviewed (Kiev or St. Petersburg)?

3) What is the age limit for a K-2, and does the age restriction apply at the time the K-2 is filed for, or is it an issue if he reaches the age limit between the time of filing and the time of approval?

Regarding posting my timeline, I have not done anything yet as the timing of when I get the K-1 may be important given the son's situation. I want to understand everything first and then I can decide when is the best time to receive the K-1 and apply accordingly. But certainly I will post my timeline when it begins.

Good Luck Tomorrow,

Tom tjberk@hotmail.com

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks so much for responding. Our situations are extremely similar, as my fiance is Ukrainian but lives in Russia (St. Petersburg), so her son may also be going to the university in Russia. I want to be sure that I understand everything correctly, as what you wrote sounds too good to be true. If I understand you correctly, we have 2 choices:

1) He comes with the mother, but since the AOS takes too long, he can get advanced parole in order to return for the start of the university. My question here is whether her son must return to the USA when the mother has her interview for the AOS? If no, can it hurt his mother's chances for AOS if the son spent so little time in the USA and plans to go to the university in Russia/Ukraine. If the son arrived with mother, will he automatically get AOS if the mother gets it, regardless of whether he is currently in the USA?

2) He can come within 12 months of the K-1. This is 12 months from issuance of the K-1 or 12 months from her US entry? If I understand you correctly, your oldest son has never been in the USA, but simply needs to come here for 2-3 weeks to get his AOS because his mother already has it? He needs no interview and it doesn't matter that he just arrived and will be leaving soon?

Additional questions:

1) How long is the conditional green card good for, and will the son have difficulty getting a permanent green card if the has not been living in the USA?

2) Can my fiance choose where she is interviewed (Kiev or St. Petersburg)?

3) What is the age limit for a K-2, and does the age restriction apply at the time the K-2 is filed for, or is it an issue if he reaches the age limit between the time of filing and the time of approval?

Regarding posting my timeline, I have not done anything yet as the timing of when I get the K-1 may be important given the son's situation. I want to understand everything first and then I can decide when is the best time to receive the K-1 and apply accordingly. But certainly I will post my timeline when it begins.

Good Luck Tomorrow,

Tom tjberk@hotmail.com

This was also sent to me by PM and I replied to the OP there. Since it is also here, I will post the reply though it is a bit wordy. Read it if you like and have time

OK to make this easy for me, I will give answers in red.  Otherwise, I will get confused and you will get bad answers.

Hi Gary,

Thanks so much for responding. Our situations are extremely similar, as my fiancée is Ukrainian but lives in Russia (St. Petersburg), so her son may also be going to the university in Russia. I want to be sure that I understand everything correctly, as what you wrote sounds too good to be true. If I understand you correctly, we have 2 choices:

1) He comes with the mother, but since the AOS takes too long, he can get advanced parole in order to return for the start of the university. My question here is whether her son must return to the USA when the mother has her interview for the AOS? If no, can it hurt his mother's chances for AOS if the son spent so little time in the USA and plans to go to the university in Russia/Ukraine. If the son arrived with mother, will he automatically get AOS if the mother gets it, regardless of whether he is currently in the USA?

Yes, he can come with her. The “initial” AOS (for her, or her and him if at the same time) will take 2-6 months AFTER you file. For us that meant 4 months from when Alla arrived to “green card in hand”, too long to get done in the summer. BUT you can file for an AP for him at the same time and specify the travel date he must return. They will try to get you the AP before he leaves. They also told us they could forward the approved AP to the Moscow consulate for him to pick up if he had to leave. Sounds great, but I am skeptical of government promises. Just me. In theory, he needs to go to the interview, yes. He would have to return for the AOS interview as he is over age 14. It would not affect HER green card as the AOS is separate for each person. They fully understand the need for him to be educated, they do not have a problem with this and it will not affect his green card in the future if he is there as a student, be sure you have some documentation of this.

His AOS is not “automatic” you have to apply separately, but barring any disqualifications, YES he will get it also. Our younger son got his green card the same day as Alla. You can send both AOS applications in the same envelope (as I did) but it is two separate applications. His application is derivative of hers, so you do not have to prove any “relationship” other than she is his mother (birth certificate). If he is not required to go to an interview (but I think he would be) then YES he will get the green card also, “automatically” for lack of better term. They can send it to your home or forward it to the Moscow consulate for him to pick up.

2) He can come within 12 months of the K-1. This is 12 months from issuance of the K-1 or 12 months from her US entry? If I understand you correctly, your oldest son has never been in the USA, but simply needs to come here for 2-3 weeks to get his AOS because his mother already has it? He needs no interview and it doesn't matter that he just arrived and will be leaving soon?

Yes. It is 12 months from the issuance of her K-1 visa, regardless of when she enters the USA. Alla’s K-1 was issued August 7, 2008, Sergey’s K2 must be issued before August 7, 2009. Alla did not arrive her until September 11, 2008. If you do this, he will need to interview in Kiev (or Moscow, whichever consulate is correct) before he gets the K2 as our son is doing at the end of June. IF her AOS has been completed by that time, he should be able to go to the local office when he arrives and submit his I-485 (AOS application) and give his fingerprints (biometrics) and they should just process a green card. That is what we were told at my wife’s K1 AOS interview, and that is what I am verifying tomorrow. The reason is there is no particular “proof” needed for a K2 and our file now resides at the local office and will stay there unless we move out of the area. A K2 is derivative of a K1. They do all the “checking” on the K-1 applicant (your wife) once that is done the K2s just follow on, provided he has no disqualifications, such as a criminal record or something. As I understood, once AOS has been completed, the immigrant and their family then refers to the local office for all matters. Makes sense, but I want to be sure and be prepared. I will run him over there the day after he arrives if that is the case. You are correct, our oldest son, Sergey, has never been to the US. He will have his visa interview in late June and come here July 16. He will return for school September 8 and we hope to have his green card in his hand. Again, they said if it wasn’t in our hand, for him to go back to school and they will send it to Moscow. He will not need the green card to LEAVE, only to return for his next visit. He must return to the USA at least once a year as a student or his green card will be revoked, not a problem he plans to come here for the summer and maybe also at Christmas if we don’t go there.

Be advised, if you didn’t already know, he will pay a separate AOS fee when he arrives ($1010) and separate visa fees, medical exam in Ukraine/Russia.

Additional questions:

1) How long is the conditional green card good for, and will the son have difficulty getting a permanent green card if the has not been living in the USA?

The conditional card is good for 2 years. He will “officially” be living in the USA, he will be a student in Russia. There will be no problem as long as he is not out of the country more than 12 months. Even then you could get an AP allowing more than 12 months, but eventually they will say “Why do you want a green card?” Best if he returns for the summer. Keep records that he IS a student. They are very accommodating of this, but I presume they could ask for evidence. It would probably be best if he has some student ID with him when he re-enters the USA

2) Can my fiancée choose where she is interviewed (Kiev or St. Petersburg)?

The Russian consulate is in Moscow. There may be a consulate in St. Petersburg, but it does not issue K1 visas. If she has a permanent residence in Russia she can choose to interview in Moscow. I believe, as a Ukrainian citizen, she can choose to interview in Kiev also, BUT here is the problem. If you give her permanent address as Russia, the NVC will likely forward it to Moscow and then it is like turning a battleship to get them to forward it to Kiev. If her permanent address is in Russia, plan on interviewing in Moscow. If she has a permanent address in Ukraine, then use that address for the I-129f and she will go to Kiev. It depends her residence status. Foreigners in Russia have to “register” where they live and for what purpose. Our son registers as a student every time he goes back to school. Alla is in Moscow right now and registered as a “visitor” which I have also done. How is your fiancée registered in Russia? That will be key. Decide this with her. On the I-129f there is a place to list the consulate desired, answer how you decide, but be aware you do not always get what you choose when two countries are involved.

Also, she will have to provide Russian and Ukrainian police certificates, regardless of where she interviews, so will her son if he has lived in Russia after age 16. And don’t forget the military document. When he is 18 in Ukraine (even if he lives in Russia unless he is a permanent resident of Russia) he must register for compulsory military service. If he is registered with a university as a student, this is deferred as long as he is a student. He will need this deferment document to show he has complied with the law. The US will not be accused of issuing K2 visas to people avoiding military service. Once he becomes a US permanent resident he will be required to register for the draft (selective service) here. Once he does that, he is exempt from compulsory military service in Ukraine. Alla wasn’t too happy he would have to register for the draft here, but better the very small chance of getting drafted vs. the sure thing in Ukraine. Alla is very much “anti-war” and does not want to see her sons go to the military. Once they hit 18 in Ukraine, this is a must. Sergey was not allowed to apply for his passport unless he had this deferment document.

Regarding posting my timeline, I have not done anything yet as the timing of when I get the K-1 may be important given the son's situation. I want to understand everything first and then I can decide when is the best time to receive the K-1 and apply accordingly. But certainly I will post my timeline when it begins.

Great. Only a suggestion, but fill in your “personal portal” information for indicating a fiancée in Russia or Ukraine, whichever you choose. Then when you go to the “portals” tab it will take you to any posts by “Russian” or “Ukrainian” members. They will usually have the best, consulate specific, answers for you.

You will also, as you read these posts, see lots of scary stuff. Many countries are considered “high fraud” countries and are very strict and difficult in issuing these visas. Russia and Ukraine are NOT considered high fraud and are generally quite easy to deal with IF you have all your documents in order. So don’t panic when you read horror stories from Morocco, Nigeria or United Arab Emirates or Guatemala, OK? Go to the consulate reviews for Kiev and Moscow and you will see most people breeze right through. If your relationship is legitimate, you will have no problem at either consulate.

Regarding timing, plan 2-4 months for the NOA2 after filing. The approved petition is good for 4 months (must have interview within four months) and the visa is valid for 6 months after issuance. If you filed today, you could expect the NOA2 around September, you can delay the interview until January and then the visa would be good until June. You can also get an extension of four months on the approved petition, pushing the interview as late as April of next year for a petition filed today. If you plan for her to be here in June of next year, you could file the petition anytime now, really.

Good Luck Tomorrow,

Thanks

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And please, lest anyone take offense to my reference that my wife does not want her sons in the military, she and I have very much respect for those IN the military. I am the son of a career military man, myself. Like many Ukrainians (almost all to be exact) that lost family members in the unique horrors that WW2 inflicted on Ukraine, Alla has no desire to see her sons in the military. It is certainly not a reflection on those that serve our country for which I thank, especially on Memorial Day. For those not familiar with Ukraine, the surviving heros of "The Great Patriotic War" are accorded very high regard by all Ukrainians and are remembered and respected like no place I have ever seen to this day.

[Waitinggent 2]

Thanks much for taking the time to write me a detailed answer. I certainly understand the system better now. I hope I am not overburdening you, but your reply brought up 2 or 3 more questions. I understand that you will be busy today dealing with immigration, so don't feel rushed to answer. I suppose that I should write you again in July to see how things went after your son's arrival to make sure that there were no snafus that you didn't expect. I will be seeing my fiance again later in July, so that may be the time to have her sign documents and start the K-1 process, so we will need then to make the final decision on whether to apply for her K-1 with the son as "to follow", or whether to bring him with her at the start.

Anyway, here are my questions:

1) What will be in your oldest son's passport that will allow him to enter the USA, and how did he get this in his passport?

2) What is infopass?

3) Do I have any control over when the AOS interview will be? In other words, if the son comes with mom, but then leaves on Advanced Parole to attend the university at the end of August, can I plan for the AOS interview to be during his New Years break from college or might he need to return in the middle of a semester simply to go to the interview because we have no control over the scheduling of the AOS interview?

Thanks Again,

Tom

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks much for taking the time to write me a detailed answer. I certainly understand the system better now. I hope I am not overburdening you, but your reply brought up 2 or 3 more questions. I understand that you will be busy today dealing with immigration, so don't feel rushed to answer. I suppose that I should write you again in July to see how things went after your son's arrival to make sure that there were no snafus that you didn't expect. I will be seeing my fiance again later in July, so that may be the time to have her sign documents and start the K-1 process, so we will need then to make the final decision on whether to apply for her K-1 with the son as "to follow", or whether to bring him with her at the start.

Anyway, here are my questions:

1) What will be in your oldest son's passport that will allow him to enter the USA, and how did he get this in his passport?

2) What is infopass?

3) Do I have any control over when the AOS interview will be? In other words, if the son comes with mom, but then leaves on Advanced Parole to attend the university at the end of August, can I plan for the AOS interview to be during his New Years break from college or might he need to return in the middle of a semester simply to go to the interview because we have no control over the scheduling of the AOS interview?

Thanks Again,

Tom

1. He will be issued a K2 visa to allow him one time entry to the USA. When he enters that will be cancelled and replaced by the I-94 card. Exactly the same as the K-1 except he doesn't have to marry me. He will then have to adjust status before he can leave and return. Since his AOS is derivitive of his mother's and she has already completed AOS, I have been told his AOS process will be quick and easy. That is what we will see.

He gets this because he was listed as a child on the I-129f I filed for his mother. He is under 21 and unmarried, therefore he is eligible to apply for a K-2. You then must make an appointment with the consulate, present a visa application, medical exam, documents, yada, yada even a separate affidavit of support for each K-2. You can do this at the same as the K-1 interview, or up to one year later. It is the K-1 "redux" basically. The only difference is you do not have to show proof of ongoing relationship, only that he is the son of your fiancee. The birth cetificate does this. K-2 applicants over age 14 MUST go to the inerview at the consulate. Not so much to "interview" them, but anyone over 14 must give an electronic fingerprint for the visa and you gotta go there to do that. At least his finger needs to be there. I expect the K-2 interview for Sergey to go like this: Turn in documents. Wait. Get called up to take fingerprint. Wait. Get called up and told visa is approved, go to FedEx window and arrange delivery. Pretty much exactly as Alla's K-1.

Just like for the K-1, he will turn in his passport to the consulate when he arrives for the interview. The passport will be FedEx'd back to him with the visa inside. Pretty fancy looking visa that takes a whole page of the passport.

2. Infopass is an appointment at your local USCIS office. You can make an infopass appointment by going to "infopass.gov" and putting in your zip code to locate your local office. Mine is the one and only St Albans, VT, home of the VSC!!! But it is a different building I will go to.

3. Really no. You file for AOS. Sometime after that we received a "biometrics" appointment for photos and fingerprints. A few days later we received an interview appointment with about 3 weeks notice. It is possible to change an interview appointment but I understand it is strongly recommended not to. You may HAVE to, in your case. I understand your concern. Universities in Russia take a very dim view of a student missing classes or especially exams and routinely kick them out for that...even if it is only a day or two. There is also the possibility that you would not have have an interview for AOS at all, and the other possibility he could be excused from the interview. Our youngest had to go to the interview and did nothing, just sat there. I would really have been PO'd to bring him back from Russia for THAT! Alla and I did only a little more than nothing.

If he comes with her, I would suggest filing for the AOS right away. If the interview comes at a bad time, make an infopass appointment and go to speak to them about whether the son can be excused or, barring that, change the appointment date. Offices vary, I can get an appointment at the local office here on 1 or 2 days notice.

I will be sure to post the results of our upcoming K-2 interview, POE experience (I expect that to be a non-issue) and AOS experience. If I find nayhting newsworthy today I will report that also.