Legal resident deported after being nabbed on traffic violations

[csoul 0]

To be honest I agree that we need to be good citizens to stay in this country. I left mine (Venezuela) because is a lawless country and I really like the order and everything here (compared with Venezuela).

This story is sad but for me the whole immigration system need to find a better way to filter that people that is not going to help US to be a better country.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12380461?source=rss

"Legal permanent residents are still guests in this country," said Lori Haley, spokeswoman for ICE. "If they are convicted of aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude, they can be deported."

Edited May 25, 2009 by csoul

[moonhunt 1]

To be honest I agree that we need to be good citizens to stay in this country. I left mine (Venezuela) because is a lawless country and I really like the order and everything here (compared with Venezuela).

This story is sad but for me the whole immigration system need to find a better way to filter that people that is not going to help US to be a better country.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12380461?source=rss

"Legal permanent residents are still guests in this country," said Lori Haley, spokeswoman for ICE. "If they are convicted of aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude, they can be deported."

Probably he/she - Lori Haley - needs to go back to elementary school to study English.

He/she think the word resident is same to the word guest ?

I understand that there should be some line to protect the country for good.

But there should be some line, which should be applied with careful consideration and consistent legal approach.

But in this case, it seems they went too far.

The spirit of consitution is that human is created equally.

Given the penalty, it seems to me that victim was not given fair trial at all.

Back in 100 years ago, who came to U.S. with legal documenation ?

[Kinito_2k3 5]

To be honest I agree that we need to be good citizens to stay in this country. I left mine (Venezuela) because is a lawless country and I really like the order and everything here (compared with Venezuela).

This story is sad but for me the whole immigration system need to find a better way to filter that people that is not going to help US to be a better country.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12380461?source=rss

"Legal permanent residents are still guests in this country," said Lori Haley, spokeswoman for ICE. "If they are convicted of aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude, they can be deported."

Probably he/she - Lori Haley - needs to go back to elementary school to study English.

He/she think the word resident is same to the word guest ?

I understand that there should be some line to protect the country for good.

But there should be some line, which should be applied with careful consideration and consistent legal approach.

But in this case, it seems they went too far.

The spirit of consitution is that human is created equally.

Given the penalty, it seems to me that victim was not given fair trial at all.

Back in 100 years ago, who came to U.S. with legal documenation ?

What exactly is your point here? Citizens only can't be deported...and I guess if you are proven guilty of "aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude", then you residency can be cancelled you and you as a result would have to leave or be deported is you don't cooperate. That's my understanding. Any thoughts?

[moonhunt 1]

What exactly is your point here? Citizens only can't be deported...and I guess if you are proven guilty of "aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude", then you residency can be cancelled you and you as a result would have to leave or be deported is you don't cooperate. That's my understanding. Any thoughts?

Even Citizen can be deported and revoked his/her citizenship depending on the situation even if it is very restricted.

Some US Citizen was deported or more precisely not allowed to come in to U.S. because he has some problem not to pay his child support even though he didn't aware of the child because the baby was born after divorce.

I see two problems from above case.

First, ICE spokewoman statement...

"Legal permanent residents are still guests in this country"

Resident is resident.

Not the guest.

LPR is proving that they have intent to live here permanently, and they are the resident of this country.

If they wants to kick LPR out of this country, they have to prove that it is valid from legal viewpoint.

Yes. moral turpitude issue may be one of the reason for deportation.

But in that case, it should be strictly reviewed under the law.

In this case, ICE interpreted it arbitrarily, and presented it to the court without the accused's necessary legal protection.

Given the mental disorder, and his family financial situation, I don't think they had appropriate legal protection.

Even as LPR, they should have treated as equal human right.

Separating from family for mental illness even if he was spending most of his life in this land ?

I know some people may not agree with me.

But I believe in basic principles.

This country's constitution was written based on "equally created", and "innocent until proven".

If they had lawyer presented, and had money enough, this situation may turn out differently.

They didn't had a chance for "proven" because of poverty.

Given the description of article, it is pretty sure that he have mental disorder.

In that case, he should be in protection from this country instead of kicking him out.

My point is here that I question about "moral turpitude".

If he is mental disorder from accident, can we declare him in "moral turpitude"?

Also, I question about ICE's intepretation of "resident" as "guest".

[Kinito_2k3 5]

What exactly is your point here? Citizens only can't be deported...and I guess if you are proven guilty of "aggravated felonies or crimes of moral turpitude", then you residency can be cancelled you and you as a result would have to leave or be deported is you don't cooperate. That's my understanding. Any thoughts?

Even Citizen can be deported and revoked his/her citizenship depending on the situation even if it is very restricted.

Some US Citizen was deported or more precisely not allowed to come in to U.S. because he has some problem not to pay his child support even though he didn't aware of the child because the baby was born after divorce.

I see two problems from above case.

First, ICE spokewoman statement...

"Legal permanent residents are still guests in this country"

Resident is resident.

Not the guest.

LPR is proving that they have intent to live here permanently, and they are the resident of this country.

If they wants to kick LPR out of this country, they have to prove that it is valid from legal viewpoint.

Yes. moral turpitude issue may be one of the reason for deportation.

But in that case, it should be strictly reviewed under the law.

In this case, ICE interpreted it arbitrarily, and presented it to the court without the accused's necessary legal protection.

Given the mental disorder, and his family financial situation, I don't think they had appropriate legal protection.

Even as LPR, they should have treated as equal human right.

Separating from family for mental illness even if he was spending most of his life in this land ?

I know some people may not agree with me.

But I believe in basic principles.

This country's constitution was written based on "equally created", and "innocent until proven".

If they had lawyer presented, and had money enough, this situation may turn out differently.

They didn't had a chance for "proven" because of poverty.

Given the description of article, it is pretty sure that he have mental disorder.

In that case, he should be in protection from this country instead of kicking him out.

My point is here that I question about "moral turpitude".

If he is mental disorder from accident, can we declare him in "moral turpitude"?

Also, I question about ICE's intepretation of "resident" as "guest".

You lost me When she says guest, I think she refers to the fact that the USA allowed them to be there and that it's not a right, therefore the permanent resident can be deported. I think she wanted to be somewhat elegant with the use of the word guest But I see where it can be disturbing:)

Now about the US citizen being deported/not being able to come back home, it's very surprising, but you might be right.

Regarding the "moral turpitude", apparently in the legal US context it refers to "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals." => can it be against the constitution and therefore trigger deportation?

that's my two cents What are your thoughts ?

Edited May 26, 2009 by Kinito_2k3

[Sherri and Matt 1]

Who let him drive? If he is so brain damaged he can't be held responsible for his actions, can't understand questions, can't distinguish right from wrong.....we want this guy driving around? Sound like an excuse to me. It is my understanding that permanent residents are here by permission and that can be revoked. I'm not saying this person should have been deported for shoplifting, but maybe there is a bit more to the story.

Resident is resident.

Citizen is citizen.

Resident is NOT citizen.

There is a difference.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Sherri and Matt

[aaron2020 11,651]

A Legal Permanent Resident is a guest of this country. The person comes here to live but has no right to remain if that person violates the laws here - that's the bargain when the foreign national accepts the green card. A US citizen is not a guest because that person has a right to remain in the country no matter what law is violated.

If my girlfriend invites me to move in with her and I accept, then I am going to list her house as my resident. However, I also a guest that she can kick out at any time because she owns the house and not me. Similar analogy to being an LPR.

Immigration proceedings are civil matters not criminal. The person has a right to have an attorney present, taxpayers do not have to provide them with one.

Some person with mental impairments can distinguish right from wrong. There is also varying degree of mental impairment. If this guy can drive, he is functioning at a pretty good level.

------------

The bottom line is that;

You come here. You behave, then you get to stay. If you break my rules (laws), then you have to go home.

This is what I tell my son's friends all the time when they come over to play. Seems like the same rule for LPRs.

Edited May 29, 2009 by aaron2020

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Even Citizen can be deported and revoked his/her citizenship depending on the situation even if it is very restricted.

Some US Citizen was deported or more precisely not allowed to come in to U.S. because he has some problem not to pay his child support even though he didn't aware of the child because the baby was born after divorce.

A native born US citizen cannot be legally deported for any reason. A naturalized US citizen can be stripped of their citizenship and deported if they lied on their immigration documents. No other criminal act would cause them to lose their citizenship and be deported.

The only other time a US citizen has ever been deported was when ICE didn't properly verify their citizenship, and they deported them accidentally.

US citizens who do not pay their child support are NOT deported, nor are they denied entry to the United States. However, they MAY be refused permission to LEAVE the United States, be denied a passport, or have their passport siezed by CBP when the try to leave the US.