You know your husband's Egyptian when...

[Nothing1234 2]

@ what I wear and what he wears. I married a man whom I was comfortable with our thoughts on the matter as he was comfortable of my thoughts on the matter too. It is not "cute" to me when someone is possesive or extremely controlling. Some people find it endearing...I do not.

I am for the most part conservative since I have a professional job and I do care how people view me in Corporate America and I want to be taken seriously. These choices have carried over to my personal dress. On weekends and at personal social functions, I wear short sleeves so my arms are out, I wear shorts (not daisy dukes..lol), I wear skirts (again not super mini's), jeans, etc. When I'm in Egypt I am a bit more conservative to be respectful to those around me and make everyone feel comfortable. But I tend to wear my normal clothing w/ either leggings, or long sleeved body suits under them.

As for those hubby's that later change about wanting conservative dress after having knowledge of how your spouse dresses. I would have issue with it..if it was not my choice to change. My SIL in Egypt is one of those women. Her hubby was fine how she dressed back when they married. She wears hijab and in my opinion and that of her mother and other women around her thought she dressed properly. However, her husband began to change. Wear a shirt or very long jacket over her already big lose long sleeved shirt she wore. Then no jeans/pants, only long skirts thick skirts and no jean material. Then, he decided after their son was born (4 years ago) that she should wear XXL clothing instead of her normal M sized clothing. She is actually a small however would wear medium sized clothing so it was looser...it wasn't loose enough! Now she looks like a bag lady...its horrible. She's miserable...I can hardly find things to send to her since they are never "long enough", "big enough" or "plain enough" for his taste. It makes both my MIL and I very angry that he's this controlling and is passing this crazy behavior on to his son who yells at her as she's dressing (mimicking his father).

I'm looking forward to her visit but actually in fear of her 4 year old son coming as I know he will be the "snitch" back to his father on what she wears daily while she is here. She would never disrespect herself by dressing inappropriately however, her son is only 4 and is really just mimicking so he will most likely be the cause of fights while she is here.

Anyway, to each his own and I would never point fingers at others if its their choice. (0k...don't attack as I write my opinion here) However, if its not and the person is doing it because of pressure or because they find it endearing that their husband is crazy jealous and continues to find ways to control them...From experience of knowing people like this...those ladies will later on rebel in one way or another. These men don't even realize they are forcing this to happen in the future. IMHO, I especially think American/European women that have grown up in our open societies and then come in contact with these "new" cultures and religions...have a tendency to be blinded (temporarily) by the amazing feeling of being enourmously loved/cared for...when in fact its not love its an obsession.

Again, just my two cents and just an opinion. I'm not looking to debate...just sharing my mind. I'm sure others have different thougths and I respect those thoughts just don't always agree with them. And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

[Aymsgirl 0]

@ what I wear and what he wears. I married a man whom I was comfortable with our thoughts on the matter as he was comfortable of my thoughts on the matter too. It is not "cute" to me when someone is possesive or extremely controlling. Some people find it endearing...I do not.

I am for the most part conservative since I have a professional job and I do care how people view me in Corporate America and I want to be taken seriously. These choices have carried over to my personal dress. On weekends and at personal social functions, I wear short sleeves so my arms are out, I wear shorts (not daisy dukes..lol), I wear skirts (again not super mini's), jeans, etc. When I'm in Egypt I am a bit more conservative to be respectful to those around me and make everyone feel comfortable. But I tend to wear my normal clothing w/ either leggings, or long sleeved body suits under them.

As for those hubby's that later change about wanting conservative dress after having knowledge of how your spouse dresses. I would have issue with it..if it was not my choice to change. My SIL in Egypt is one of those women. Her hubby was fine how she dressed back when they married. She wears hijab and in my opinion and that of her mother and other women around her thought she dressed properly. However, her husband began to change. Wear a shirt or very long jacket over her already big lose long sleeved shirt she wore. Then no jeans/pants, only long skirts thick skirts and no jean material. Then, he decided after their son was born (4 years ago) that she should wear XXL clothing instead of her normal M sized clothing. She is actually a small however would wear medium sized clothing so it was looser...it wasn't loose enough! Now she looks like a bag lady...its horrible. She's miserable...I can hardly find things to send to her since they are never "long enough", "big enough" or "plain enough" for his taste. It makes both my MIL and I very angry that he's this controlling and is passing this crazy behavior on to his son who yells at her as she's dressing (mimicking his father).

I'm looking forward to her visit but actually in fear of her 4 year old son coming as I know he will be the "snitch" back to his father on what she wears daily while she is here. She would never disrespect herself by dressing inappropriately however, her son is only 4 and is really just mimicking so he will most likely be the cause of fights while she is here.

Anyway, to each his own and I would never point fingers at others if its their choice. (0k...don't attack as I write my opinion here) However, if its not and the person is doing it because of pressure or because they find it endearing that their husband is crazy jealous and continues to find ways to control them...From experience of knowing people like this...those ladies will later on rebel in one way or another. These men don't even realize they are forcing this to happen in the future. IMHO, I especially think American/European women that have grown up in our open societies and then come in contact with these "new" cultures and religions...have a tendency to be blinded (temporarily) by the amazing feeling of being enourmously loved/cared for...when in fact its not love its an obsession.

Again, just my two cents and just an opinion. I'm not looking to debate...just sharing my mind. I'm sure others have different thougths and I respect those thoughts just don't always agree with them. And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

Annie---to me you couldn't have said it better.

[Nothing1234 2]

Thanks Tash I actually had just finished talking to my SIL last night about her visit and we were discussing my nephews new behavior in length. I just hope it doesn't spill over and ruin her time here making each day a constant battle or I'm unplugging the magic jack JK

[doodlebugg 10]

And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

OK but what if we *were* hypothetically talking about wearing hijab appropriately? Then is it acceptable that a husband demands this or that and if it isn't what is the woman to do? I really wish Egyptian men like hotguy or someone would chime in because I'm very curious. Say a woman, who is muslim or not, goes from dressing very conservatively, i.e. no arms/legs showing, to wanting to wear shorts/short-sleeved shirts and her Egyptian husband doesn't want her to? Does she just cave in for the sake of the marriage? Does he cave in for the sake of the marriage? Is it worth throwing an entire marriage away for? (OMG this sounds like the beginning of a Sex in the City episode where Carrie is typing away at a new article. lol)

[nurse1967 287]

I think it either's behavior changes towards this subject dramatically AFTER the marriage then that should be a red flag of something more.

[Nothing1234 2]

I think it either's behavior changes towards this subject dramatically AFTER the marriage then that should be a red flag of something more.

I agree...red flag that something is wrong. Not necessarily a bad red flag but something that may need discussing or perhaps need counseling on...sometimes people just do go through changes in life. Whether it be mid-life/change of life crisis, etc...

[zahrasalem 114]

And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

OK but what if we *were* hypothetically talking about wearing hijab appropriately? Then is it acceptable that a husband demands this or that and if it isn't what is the woman to do? I really wish Egyptian men like hotguy or someone would chime in because I'm very curious. Say a woman, who is muslim or not, goes from dressing very conservatively, i.e. no arms/legs showing, to wanting to wear shorts/short-sleeved shirts and her Egyptian husband doesn't want her to? Does she just cave in for the sake of the marriage? Does he cave in for the sake of the marriage? Is it worth throwing an entire marriage away for? (OMG this sounds like the beginning of a Sex in the City episode where Carrie is typing away at a new article. lol)

Hi all, this is my experience..........

I am a USC muslim, however, I did not wear hijab until recently. I've always known I need to and I always wanted to for the right reasons, but I was intimidated to wear it in the U.S. I have always covered my arms & legs in public though.

I especially told myself I will start wearing it when my now 5 year old daughter turned 1, so that I could be a role model for her as well....but I didn't unfortunately.

I met my wonderful husband last year, he is a bit more religious than I am and can quote from the quran very easily, being raised in Egypt all of his life. All the women in his family and village wear hijab. In a very loving and kind way, he reinforced what I already knew in my heart, that hijab is sunnah (required), and he gave me the strentgh and extra confidence that I needed to start wearing it in America. I really love him so much for helping me with that. I wear it first for Allah, of course, and second to respect my husband's requirement for his wife to wear hijab.

Alhamduliallah, he likes me to dress in my own modern style, (jeans, etc.) but just to cover my arms, legs and butt, and I do that anyway, so no issue for us there. I am so happy now that I have started wearing hijab, and my daughter already wants to start wearing it to be like me.

And, alhamduliallah, I have never felt uncomfortable in public where i live, everyone is very polite to me. However, I'm looking for a job, and I'm not sure if my muslim last name is having a negative effect on me getting calls for interviews here in California......allah knows best.

I also wanted to comment about if a wife were to change her mind after marriage at some point to not wear hijab or not cover her arm/legs: i feel the subject of wearing hijab or not should be fully agreed on before marriage. If she agrees to his need for her to wear hijab, then it's not fair for her to expect him to accept her decision to stop wearing hijab later on after marriage, even many years down the road. Just as it would not be fair for him to change his mind about how loose her clothing should be after he already knew how she dressed when the agreement was made. It's a 2 way street.

Anyway, I'm happy to have this ME/NA forum with everyone, it helps so much to know we're all going through the same thing, and just trying to get through this long, dark tunnel to get to the other side and have a new life with our SO.

Zahra

[Nothing1234 2]

And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

OK but what if we *were* hypothetically talking about wearing hijab appropriately? Then is it acceptable that a husband demands this or that and if it isn't what is the woman to do? I really wish Egyptian men like hotguy or someone would chime in because I'm very curious. Say a woman, who is muslim or not, goes from dressing very conservatively, i.e. no arms/legs showing, to wanting to wear shorts/short-sleeved shirts and her Egyptian husband doesn't want her to? Does she just cave in for the sake of the marriage? Does he cave in for the sake of the marriage? Is it worth throwing an entire marriage away for? (OMG this sounds like the beginning of a Sex in the City episode where Carrie is typing away at a new article. lol)

Well, I talked with my hubby while answering before I always do...we discuss things I post because he's interested in knowing what we talk about and its always a great conversation piece over dinner!

No, Bridget, its not acceptable to me that a husband demand his wife wear hijab if she wasn't before nor had expressed interest in it. He wouldn't be my husband. We could most certainly discuss the topic of what makes us happy/comfortable and I respect my hubby so on many occassions compromise happens on both our parts. There are things like hugging, kissing on the cheek we had discussed in length before getting married...since its common in the US and not so much in Egypt btwn opposite sexes.

Hazem said, if she was already dressing conservatively, what made her change her mind? He thinks there is something that might be happening in either the marriage, the relationship, etc. Also, he said was the choice of hijab hers or was it something she felt forced on her. Because most don't feel comfortable once making the commitment to God and themselves to just "change" their minds. It's a huge step to commit to so there needs to be another factor involved. He said its not worth throwing away an entire marriage but he does question what reasons she has, what behaviors may have changed with her.

I don't know...my hubby is a pretty easy going Egyptian not very typical so he might not be the best person to answer.

[zahrasalem 114]

Also my experience with my husband and his family regarding hugging/greeting the opposite sex between adults..........

NO WAY

He and his family are very conservative/traditional about adult males and females not hugging when saying hello or goodbye, unless it is between the mother/father/adult children only. But male and female cousins, aunts, uncles, freinds of opposite sex do not hug. He said when he comes here insha'allah, that he would only be comfortable to hug my mom, but not my older sister or her adult daughters. I totally respect that and they do also (my family is mostly italian, so they love to hug everyone, but they respect his culture).

I agree with the no hugging between adults outside your immediate family, so it's very easy for me when I'm with him in Egypt.......i feel it's very normal, and not my italian side of the family's way of hugging everyone in sight. That really does have a way of leading to too much familiararity between men and women that can lead to unwanted attention.

I like the conservative way also because it shows respect for each person (adults) to not be free game to be touched or hugged, it should be reserved to be between a husband and wife (or to hug your mom & dad).

Zahra

[Aymsgirl 0]

And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

OK but what if we *were* hypothetically talking about wearing hijab appropriately? Then is it acceptable that a husband demands this or that and if it isn't what is the woman to do? I really wish Egyptian men like hotguy or someone would chime in because I'm very curious. Say a woman, who is muslim or not, goes from dressing very conservatively, i.e. no arms/legs showing, to wanting to wear shorts/short-sleeved shirts and her Egyptian husband doesn't want her to? Does she just cave in for the sake of the marriage? Does he cave in for the sake of the marriage? Is it worth throwing an entire marriage away for? (OMG this sounds like the beginning of a Sex in the City episode where Carrie is typing away at a new article. lol)

Well, I talked with my hubby while answering before I always do...we discuss things I post because he's interested in knowing what we talk about and its always a great conversation piece over dinner!

No, Bridget, its not acceptable to me that a husband demand his wife wear hijab if she wasn't before nor had expressed interest in it. He wouldn't be my husband. We could most certainly discuss the topic of what makes us happy/comfortable and I respect my hubby so on many occassions compromise happens on both our parts. There are things like hugging, kissing on the cheek we had discussed in length before getting married...since its common in the US and not so much in Egypt btwn opposite sexes.

Hazem said, if she was already dressing conservatively, what made her change her mind? He thinks there is something that might be happening in either the marriage, the relationship, etc. Also, he said was the choice of hijab hers or was it something she felt forced on her. Because most don't feel comfortable once making the commitment to God and themselves to just "change" their minds. It's a huge step to commit to so there needs to be another factor involved. He said its not worth throwing away an entire marriage but he does question what reasons she has, what behaviors may have changed with her.

I don't know...my hubby is a pretty easy going Egyptian not very typical so he might not be the best person to answer.

I still have to agree with you Annie on this point. We have had this very converstaion and it is up to me if I want to do it. He knows that I do not feel comfortable with it so he does not push it. My husband is also very easy going and to say the least doesn't expect it of me. He has always said if you do it, do it for Allah. It's worse to do it and take it off then to not wear it. Now he may be wrong but I appreciate him not being pushy on this with me.

I also agree on the point about what would change the person's mind if they were already doing it? Were they forced or did they do it for the wrong reasons, not Allah?

Edited July 8, 2009 by Aymsgirl

[JeanneVictoria 55]

@ what I wear and what he wears. I married a man whom I was comfortable with our thoughts on the matter as he was comfortable of my thoughts on the matter too. It is not "cute" to me when someone is possesive or extremely controlling. Some people find it endearing...I do not.

I am for the most part conservative since I have a professional job and I do care how people view me in Corporate America and I want to be taken seriously. These choices have carried over to my personal dress. On weekends and at personal social functions, I wear short sleeves so my arms are out, I wear shorts (not daisy dukes..lol), I wear skirts (again not super mini's), jeans, etc. When I'm in Egypt I am a bit more conservative to be respectful to those around me and make everyone feel comfortable.

But I tend to wear my normal clothing w/ either leggings, or long sleeved body suits under them.

As for those hubby's that later change about wanting conservative dress after having knowledge of how your spouse dresses. I would have issue with it..if it was not my choice to change. My SIL in Egypt is one of those women. Her hubby was fine how she dressed back when they married. She wears hijab and in my opinion and that of her mother and other women around her thought she dressed properly. However, her husband began to change. Wear a shirt or very long jacket over her already big lose long sleeved shirt she wore. Then no jeans/pants, only long skirts thick skirts and no jean material. Then, he decided after their son was born (4 years ago) that she should wear XXL clothing instead of her normal M sized clothing. She is actually a small however would wear medium sized clothing so it was looser...it wasn't loose enough! Now she looks like a bag lady...its horrible. She's miserable...I can hardly find things to send to her since they are never "long enough", "big enough" or "plain enough" for his taste. It makes both my MIL and I very angry that he's this controlling and is passing this crazy behavior on to his son who yells at her as she's dressing (mimicking his father).

I'm looking forward to her visit but actually in fear of her 4 year old son coming as I know he will be the "snitch" back to his father on what she wears daily while she is here. She would never disrespect herself by dressing inappropriately however, her son is only 4 and is really just mimicking so he will most likely be the cause of fights while she is here.

Anyway, to each his own and I would never point fingers at others if its their choice. (0k...don't attack as I write my opinion here) However, if its not and the person is doing it because of pressure or because they find it endearing that their husband is crazy jealous and continues to find ways to control them...From experience of knowing people like this...those ladies will later on rebel in one way or another. These men don't even realize they are forcing this to happen in the future. IMHO, I especially think American/European women that have grown up in our open societies and then come in contact with these "new" cultures and religions...have a tendency to be blinded (temporarily) by the amazing feeling of being enourmously loved/cared for...when in fact its not love its an obsession.

Again, just my two cents and just an opinion. I'm not looking to debate...just sharing my mind. I'm sure others have different thougths and I respect those thoughts just don't always agree with them. And just to be clear, I am not talking about wearing hijab appropriately...I'm talking about when these rules of hijab become dictated and stricter without a womans consent.

[Ihavequestions 419]

I still have to agree with you Annie on this point. We have had this very converstaion and it is up to me if I want to do it. He knows that I do not feel comfortable with it so he does not push it. My husband is also very easy going and to say the least doesn't expect it of me. He has always said if you do it, do it for Allah. It's worse to do it and take it off then to not wear it. Now he may be wrong but I appreciate him not being pushy on this with me.

Maybe my husband listens to too many televangelists or the Sheikhs at the Mosque are pushing some propaganda but he swears he knows, for a fact, it's not a choice and Muslim women HAVE to hijab. Not that I agree with him, of course, and when I tell him to show me, in the Qu'ran, where it says that he mysteriously drops the subject. I'm just saying what he's told me, over and over and over. He has two sisters, both married. One lives in Egypt and she doesn't - never has. Nor does she cover her arms up and it's not unusual to see her with a shirt that's rather low cut (comparatively). That's because, according to him, she has a "bad husband." His other sister lives in Paris and she USED to hijab but has convinced him France outlawed hijabs altogether and that's why she no longer does it. He blindly accepts her reason. Of course, the reason she trots around Egypt with her hair, legs, arms and, like her sister, chest exposed is because, who knew, she has a bad husband, too. But me? Evidently I have a good husband because he keeps me wrapped up tight and what the neighbors think really is what matters most, right?

[amysaid 9]

I have had this conversation with my husband, because when we got married, I had only been wearing hijab for about 2 months, and had only reverted to Islam about five months prior. I told him that I was afraid that some day down the road I would decide that wearing hijab was not something that I wanted to do anymore, and that I was afraid he would divorce me if that happened. We hashed it out and he eventually told me that although he would be confused by it, and he would question it, that he would stay with me because he loves me and he knows that reverting is a gradual process and may have setbacks in acceptance. When i talked to him about it today (after reading this subject) he said that if his theoretical Muslim wife decided to stop covering, he would ask her why, if it was because she decided it was not necessary, or if it was for some other reason, because he would suspect some other underlying reason for it.

[Nothing1234 2]

I still have to agree with you Annie on this point. We have had this very converstaion and it is up to me if I want to do it. He knows that I do not feel comfortable with it so he does not push it. My husband is also very easy going and to say the least doesn't expect it of me. He has always said if you do it, do it for Allah. It's worse to do it and take it off then to not wear it. Now he may be wrong but I appreciate him not being pushy on this with me.

Maybe my husband listens to too many televangelists or the Sheikhs at the Mosque are pushing some propaganda but he swears he knows, for a fact, it's not a choice and Muslim women HAVE to hijab. Not that I agree with him, of course, and when I tell him to show me, in the Qu'ran, where it says that he mysteriously drops the subject. I'm just saying what he's told me, over and over and over. He has two sisters, both married. One lives in Egypt and she doesn't - never has. Nor does she cover her arms up and it's not unusual to see her with a shirt that's rather low cut (comparatively). That's because, according to him, she has a "bad husband." His other sister lives in Paris and she USED to hijab but has convinced him France outlawed hijabs altogether and that's why she no longer does it. He blindly accepts her reason. Of course, the reason she trots around Egypt with her hair, legs, arms and, like her sister, chest exposed is because, who knew, she has a bad husband, too. But me? Evidently I have a good husband because he keeps me wrapped up tight and what the neighbors think really is what matters most, right?

Every time I read your posts, I chuckle... We have similar sense of humors I think. And to the neighbor thing...DUH, of course! Our neighbors opinions mean everything

[zahrasalem 114]

This is not directed at anyone specific, and I'm not meaning to offend any of my ME/NA sisters, but I have read many posts in various threads here on ME/NA on the religion topic between the muslim husband and the non-muslim wife (or even muslim wife)...................

First, here are the locations in the Quran stating hijab is sunnah:

Allah Ta'ala says: "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their headcovers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women (i.e., their sisters in Islam), or their female slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants free of physical desires, or small children who have no sense of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah altogether, O you Believers, in order that you may attain success.[An-Nur, 24:31]

O Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments about themselves (when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognised and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al-Ahzaab, 33:59]

I have read many posts where the wife is rather condesending and insulting towards her husbands religious views when it comes to his belief in wearing full hijab.

It's everyone's right, of course, to have their own opinion, but why would a woman marry a man when they clearly do not agree on the subject of full hijab or not? It's not fair to marry the guy, knowing he expects his wife to wear full hijab, then later on, speak of his religious view in an insulting or superior or condesending manner, especially in public, as if he's some irrational control freak. I feel sad for that husband, that his wife can do that to him, especially behind his back.

If marriage is about loving and respecting each other and each other's opinions, including the husband's requirement of the woman he loves asked to marry, to wear hijab, then how is it showing that husband love and respect by insulting his religious view? Why would a woman even marry the guy in the first place? Doesn't make sense to me.

My husband and I fully agree on the subject of full hijab (I do observe), otherwise, there is no way either of us could marry each other for life, even though we loved each other. We would not want the potential disagreement later on to cause problems in the future.

Just my 2 cents.....Zahra