USCIS vs. VisaJourney

[GJen 9]

I found this on the USCIS web site.

(concerning Tax Records)

You are required to provide proof of employment and a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax return for your most recent tax year. If you were not required to file a tax return for your most recent tax year, you must provide an explanation. Failure to provide the tax return or evidence establishing that you were not required to file will delay action on your relative's application for permanent residence and, if not provided, will result in denial of an immigrant visa or adjustment of status.

You may also, at your option, submit a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax returns for your second and third most recent tax years if you believe these additional tax returns may help you establish the ability to maintain your household income at the governing threshold set forth in Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines.

(concerning Meeting Minimum Requirements)

If you cannot meet the minimum income requirements using your earned income, you have various options. You may add the cash value of your assets such as money in savings accounts, stocks, bonds, and property. To determine the amount of assets required to qualify, subtract your household income from the minimum income requirement (125% of the poverty level for your family size). In most cases, you must prove the cash value of your assets is worth five times this difference (the amount left over).

Example for a household size of 4:

125 percent of 2008 poverty guideline.....................$26,5000

Sponsor's income.................................................$20,000

Difference...........................................................$ 6,500

Multiply by 5.............................................................x 5

Minimum Required Cash Value of Assets....................$32,500

My situation:

Tax Records: I only have one year's tax returns because I only started working last year. (I was a full time student up until last year).I was way below the minimum last year because I only started working towards the end of the year. Do your tax records have to show that you met the minimum requirements or is it important that you be currently making at least the minimum?

Meeting Minimum Requirements: As it stands, I am $3,000 per year short from meeting the minimum requirements. (Though I am interviewing one that would put me over the requirements on Tuesday--wish me luck or say a prayer! or both!) Would that mean if I stayed where I am, making $3,000 below 125%, I'd need to have $15,000 in savings if I don't have any other assets?

USCIS vs. VisaJourney

I'm confused because according to the USCIS web site, I should be fine in the $ area, even if I don't get the job I'm trying for because of my savings. It also, says that 2nd and 3rd taxes are optional, which would work for me because I don't have them to submit!

However, a lot of the posts I see on VisaJourney neglect to mention the option of using your assets to make up for the difference. Is this because it's not accepted?

Another thing I noticed on the the USCIS website that differed from VisaJourney was the requirement of having met in the past 2 years. VisaJourney makes it out like it would be impossible to get approved without that. USCIS makes it seem like "oh, if meeting in the past 2 years causes a lot of problems ("extreme hardship" as they called it), it's not a problem". We have met in the past two years, but I was just pointing out that difference.

[pushbrk 12,569]

I found this on the USCIS web site.

(concerning Tax Records)

You are required to provide proof of employment and a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax return for your most recent tax year. If you were not required to file a tax return for your most recent tax year, you must provide an explanation. Failure to provide the tax return or evidence establishing that you were not required to file will delay action on your relative's application for permanent residence and, if not provided, will result in denial of an immigrant visa or adjustment of status.

You may also, at your option, submit a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax returns for your second and third most recent tax years if you believe these additional tax returns may help you establish the ability to maintain your household income at the governing threshold set forth in Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines.

(concerning Meeting Minimum Requirements)

If you cannot meet the minimum income requirements using your earned income, you have various options. You may add the cash value of your assets such as money in savings accounts, stocks, bonds, and property. To determine the amount of assets required to qualify, subtract your household income from the minimum income requirement (125% of the poverty level for your family size). In most cases, you must prove the cash value of your assets is worth five times this difference (the amount left over).

Example for a household size of 4:

125 percent of 2008 poverty guideline.....................$26,5000

Sponsor's income.................................................$20,000

Difference...........................................................$ 6,500

Multiply by 5.............................................................x 5

Minimum Required Cash Value of Assets....................$32,500

My situation:

Tax Records: I only have one year's tax returns because I only started working last year. (I was a full time student up until last year).I was way below the minimum last year because I only started working towards the end of the year. Do your tax records have to show that you met the minimum requirements or is it important that you be currently making at least the minimum?

Meeting Minimum Requirements: As it stands, I am $3,000 per year short from meeting the minimum requirements. (Though I am interviewing one that would put me over the requirements on Tuesday--wish me luck or say a prayer! or both!) Would that mean if I stayed where I am, making $3,000 below 125%, I'd need to have $15,000 in savings if I don't have any other assets?

USCIS vs. VisaJourney

I'm confused because according to the USCIS web site, I should be fine in the $ area, even if I don't get the job I'm trying for because of my savings. It also, says that 2nd and 3rd taxes are optional, which would work for me because I don't have them to submit!

However, a lot of the posts I see on VisaJourney neglect to mention the option of using your assets to make up for the difference. Is this because it's not accepted?

Another thing I noticed on the the USCIS website that differed from VisaJourney was the requirement of having met in the past 2 years. VisaJourney makes it out like it would be impossible to get approved without that. USCIS makes it seem like "oh, if meeting in the past 2 years causes a lot of problems ("extreme hardship" as they called it), it's not a problem". We have met in the past two years, but I was just pointing out that difference.

For a fiance(e) or spouse the ratio is 3/1 not 5/1. Bear in mind that meeting the minimum requirements is a USCIS issue when using the I-864 for AOS after your marriage. Evaluation of the public charge concern in granting a visa is far more subjectively applied by Consular officers. It's dangerous to think count on "meeting requirements" in the visa process. It's far to subjective for that.

[GJen 9]

For a fiance(e) or spouse the ratio is 3/1 not 5/1. Bear in mind that meeting the minimum requirements is a USCIS issue when using the I-864 for AOS after your marriage. Evaluation of the public charge concern in granting a visa is far more subjectively applied by Consular officers. It's dangerous to think count on "meeting requirements" in the visa process. It's far to subjective for that.

Right! I see what you're saying. However, once he is approved and is legally able to work here, then both of our incomes would go towards giving evidence that he would not become a public charge, right?

[payxibka 10,045]

For a fiance(e) or spouse the ratio is 3/1 not 5/1. Bear in mind that meeting the minimum requirements is a USCIS issue when using the I-864 for AOS after your marriage. Evaluation of the public charge concern in granting a visa is far more subjectively applied by Consular officers. It's dangerous to think count on "meeting requirements" in the visa process. It's far to subjective for that.

Right! I see what you're saying. However, once he is approved and is legally able to work here, then both of our incomes would go towards giving evidence that he would not become a public charge, right?

no not really, because the I-864 needs to be submitted prior to him being work authorized... so no real chance to have him have a "legal" source of income

[rebeccajo 14]

For a fiance(e) or spouse the ratio is 3/1 not 5/1. Bear in mind that meeting the minimum requirements is a USCIS issue when using the I-864 for AOS after your marriage. Evaluation of the public charge concern in granting a visa is far more subjectively applied by Consular officers. It's dangerous to think count on "meeting requirements" in the visa process. It's far to subjective for that.

Right! I see what you're saying. However, once he is approved and is legally able to work here, then both of our incomes would go towards giving evidence that he would not become a public charge, right?

no not really, because the I-864 needs to be submitted prior to him being work authorized... so no real chance to have him have a "legal" source of income

Jen -

You do see (on Vj) the mention of assets to qualify. It just doesn't come to the surface as much as you might think.

I used assets to qualify as my husband's sponsor. I also had an income shortfall.

When submitting the I485 petition (AOS) you must submit the I864. This is what payxibka means by needing to qualify prior to your husband being able to work. (His interim EAD will not be issued until the I485 is filed.)

There have been cases wherein on interview day, the affidavit of support originally submitted with the I485 filing is substituted for a new affidavit which includes income of the intending immigrant.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I found this on the USCIS web site.

(concerning Tax Records)

You are required to provide proof of employment and a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax return for your most recent tax year. If you were not required to file a tax return for your most recent tax year, you must provide an explanation. Failure to provide the tax return or evidence establishing that you were not required to file will delay action on your relative's application for permanent residence and, if not provided, will result in denial of an immigrant visa or adjustment of status.

You may also, at your option, submit a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax returns for your second and third most recent tax years if you believe these additional tax returns may help you establish the ability to maintain your household income at the governing threshold set forth in Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines.

(concerning Meeting Minimum Requirements)

If you cannot meet the minimum income requirements using your earned income, you have various options. You may add the cash value of your assets such as money in savings accounts, stocks, bonds, and property. To determine the amount of assets required to qualify, subtract your household income from the minimum income requirement (125% of the poverty level for your family size). In most cases, you must prove the cash value of your assets is worth five times this difference (the amount left over).

Example for a household size of 4:

125 percent of 2008 poverty guideline.....................$26,5000

Sponsor's income.................................................$20,000

Difference...........................................................$ 6,500

Multiply by 5.............................................................x 5

Minimum Required Cash Value of Assets....................$32,500

My situation:

Tax Records: I only have one year's tax returns because I only started working last year. (I was a full time student up until last year).I was way below the minimum last year because I only started working towards the end of the year. Do your tax records have to show that you met the minimum requirements or is it important that you be currently making at least the minimum?

Meeting Minimum Requirements: As it stands, I am $3,000 per year short from meeting the minimum requirements. (Though I am interviewing one that would put me over the requirements on Tuesday--wish me luck or say a prayer! or both!) Would that mean if I stayed where I am, making $3,000 below 125%, I'd need to have $15,000 in savings if I don't have any other assets?

USCIS vs. VisaJourney

I'm confused because according to the USCIS web site, I should be fine in the $ area, even if I don't get the job I'm trying for because of my savings. It also, says that 2nd and 3rd taxes are optional, which would work for me because I don't have them to submit!

However, a lot of the posts I see on VisaJourney neglect to mention the option of using your assets to make up for the difference. Is this because it's not accepted?

Another thing I noticed on the the USCIS website that differed from VisaJourney was the requirement of having met in the past 2 years. VisaJourney makes it out like it would be impossible to get approved without that. USCIS makes it seem like "oh, if meeting in the past 2 years causes a lot of problems ("extreme hardship" as they called it), it's not a problem". We have met in the past two years, but I was just pointing out that difference.

I don't recall any posts saying you cannot use assets, certainly you can. "Neglect to mention", maybe. For the I-134 the assets are valued at 1/3, not 1/5 like for the I-864. It just is not a common thing, I think, because most people make enough and don't worry about assets. If I make enough I am not going to mention assets at all, they know enough about me as it is! Using assets, other than cash in the bank, is a can of worms and why open it if you don't have to? You cannot use your primary vehicle, primary home is questionable and has to be supported with appraisals, etc. Then they may not allow it as a primary home cannot just be sold for cash and then what? Live in a refrierator box? You have to have a home and presumably it needs to be replaced.

The key word for meeting in person is "extreme" hardship. I believe it would be virtually impossible to obtain a k-1 without having met within two years. I think you are getting into the "I cannot travel because I am a quadripelegic on life support and if I am moved I will die" realm. What else is there? "I don't have enough money to travel"? Won't work. Religious proscription? Better be able to prove it is a strong religious rule, there just are not that many religions and people so strict. There HAVE been cases of people not meeting getting a K-1 but when I answer a question I cannot assume the asker is in the 0.0000003% of people that do so.

One year tax returns is all that is required, typically. I do not know why so many posts refer to three years. You do not even need three years for the I-864.

Also, there is no VJ vs. USCIS. In my opinion, VJ is a site devoted to helping people and is based on members experiences. It is not the holy grail but a guide, an information source and a really good one at that. But VJ does not make the rules. What you see here is the cummulative experience of hundreds or thousands of people in the process. Pretty damn good stuff. You will also see that VJ is conservative in advice, which is the only way they could be. I mean what of they said "Oh, don't worry about that meeting in two years rule". How would that be a service? No, the answers will be directed to the vast majority, the norm, and sometimes a specific case if specifics are asked.

I will add that I am not authorized to speak for VJ, per se. It is my impression and the way I try to answer questions and seems to be the rule of the day.

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

It is 1/3 for the I864 (for an adjustment via a relative).

There is actually no 'rule' for the I134.

Edited May 24, 2009 by rebeccajo

[GJen 9]

Also, there is no VJ vs. USCIS. In my opinion, VJ is a site devoted to helping people and is based on members experiences. It is not the holy grail but a guide, an information source and a really good one at that. But VJ does not make the rules. What you see here is the cummulative experience of hundreds or thousands of people in the process. Pretty damn good stuff. You will also see that VJ is conservative in advice, which is the only way they could be. I mean what of they said "Oh, don't worry about that meeting in two years rule". How would that be a service? No, the answers will be directed to the vast majority, the norm, and sometimes a specific case if specifics are asked.

I will add that I am not authorized to speak for VJ, per se. It is my impression and the way I try to answer questions and seems to be the rule of the day.

I was simply referring to what I was reading on VisaJourney versus what I was reading on the USCIS web site. I know that ultimately USCIS is the authority. My confusion started because it seemed like there were so many people freaking out about 3 years tax records and not being able to make the minimum when USCIS made it seem pretty simple. I like the VisaJourney gives us insight on things like the importance of having met within the past two years because anyone could see financial problems as being an extreme hardship. For that reason I think VisaJourney is extremely helpful! I just wanted to see if anyone else had noticed how, though USCIS is the authority, when compared to VisaJourney, their description of what is needed and the impact it would have on being approved/rejected (i.e. having met within the past 2 years) leaves much to be desired.

[pushbrk 12,569]

Also, there is no VJ vs. USCIS. In my opinion, VJ is a site devoted to helping people and is based on members experiences. It is not the holy grail but a guide, an information source and a really good one at that. But VJ does not make the rules. What you see here is the cummulative experience of hundreds or thousands of people in the process. Pretty damn good stuff. You will also see that VJ is conservative in advice, which is the only way they could be. I mean what of they said "Oh, don't worry about that meeting in two years rule". How would that be a service? No, the answers will be directed to the vast majority, the norm, and sometimes a specific case if specifics are asked.

I will add that I am not authorized to speak for VJ, per se. It is my impression and the way I try to answer questions and seems to be the rule of the day.

I was simply referring to what I was reading on VisaJourney versus what I was reading on the USCIS web site. I know that ultimately USCIS is the authority. My confusion started because it seemed like there were so many people freaking out about 3 years tax records and not being able to make the minimum when USCIS made it seem pretty simple. I like the VisaJourney gives us insight on things like the importance of having met within the past two years because anyone could see financial problems as being an extreme hardship. For that reason I think VisaJourney is extremely helpful! I just wanted to see if anyone else had noticed how, though USCIS is the authority, when compared to VisaJourney, their description of what is needed and the impact it would have on being approved/rejected (i.e. having met within the past 2 years) leaves much to be desired.

USCIS doesn't approve or issue visas. Until you have a K1 visa in hand, evaluation of your financial concerns are in the hands of Consular officers, who are given considerable latitude in evaluating the public charge concern. I too would say there is no VJ vs USCIS but here at VJ we tend to focus on realities of conditions on the ground instead of the often ignored guidelines of USCIS who, again, does not approve or issue visas.

It's already ringing in my ears, "But officer, my I-134 meets the USCIS guidelines." followed by, "Sorry, but this isn't the USCIS."

Edited May 24, 2009 by pushbrk

[rebeccajo 14]

Also, there is no VJ vs. USCIS. In my opinion, VJ is a site devoted to helping people and is based on members experiences. It is not the holy grail but a guide, an information source and a really good one at that. But VJ does not make the rules. What you see here is the cummulative experience of hundreds or thousands of people in the process. Pretty damn good stuff. You will also see that VJ is conservative in advice, which is the only way they could be. I mean what of they said "Oh, don't worry about that meeting in two years rule". How would that be a service? No, the answers will be directed to the vast majority, the norm, and sometimes a specific case if specifics are asked.

I will add that I am not authorized to speak for VJ, per se. It is my impression and the way I try to answer questions and seems to be the rule of the day.

I was simply referring to what I was reading on VisaJourney versus what I was reading on the USCIS web site. I know that ultimately USCIS is the authority. My confusion started because it seemed like there were so many people freaking out about 3 years tax records and not being able to make the minimum when USCIS made it seem pretty simple. I like the VisaJourney gives us insight on things like the importance of having met within the past two years because anyone could see financial problems as being an extreme hardship. For that reason I think VisaJourney is extremely helpful! I just wanted to see if anyone else had noticed how, though USCIS is the authority, when compared to VisaJourney, their description of what is needed and the impact it would have on being approved/rejected (i.e. having met within the past 2 years) leaves much to be desired.

Jen -

I think you are kind of where I was four years ago - very worried about the financials. IMO, USCIS makes it seem 'easier' because - well it's just not as hard as it seems when you are in the middle of it.

If your income is short $3000, you need $9000 in assets - not $15000.

You might find this link interesting:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/AffSuppAFM062706.pdf

Boring reading I know, but this USCIS interoffice memo, issued in 2006, explains all the ins and outs of adjudicating the I864. If you can meet the criteria of the I864, you should be good to go on your I134 at interview time.

And regarding meeting in person in the last two years - USCIS has to tell people it's possible they can be approved without having met - because it is possible. They don't have to tell people that the odds are like .001 percent.

[pushbrk 12,569]

Also, there is no VJ vs. USCIS. In my opinion, VJ is a site devoted to helping people and is based on members experiences. It is not the holy grail but a guide, an information source and a really good one at that. But VJ does not make the rules. What you see here is the cummulative experience of hundreds or thousands of people in the process. Pretty damn good stuff. You will also see that VJ is conservative in advice, which is the only way they could be. I mean what of they said "Oh, don't worry about that meeting in two years rule". How would that be a service? No, the answers will be directed to the vast majority, the norm, and sometimes a specific case if specifics are asked.

I will add that I am not authorized to speak for VJ, per se. It is my impression and the way I try to answer questions and seems to be the rule of the day.

I was simply referring to what I was reading on VisaJourney versus what I was reading on the USCIS web site. I know that ultimately USCIS is the authority. My confusion started because it seemed like there were so many people freaking out about 3 years tax records and not being able to make the minimum when USCIS made it seem pretty simple. I like the VisaJourney gives us insight on things like the importance of having met within the past two years because anyone could see financial problems as being an extreme hardship. For that reason I think VisaJourney is extremely helpful! I just wanted to see if anyone else had noticed how, though USCIS is the authority, when compared to VisaJourney, their description of what is needed and the impact it would have on being approved/rejected (i.e. having met within the past 2 years) leaves much to be desired.

Jen -

I think you are kind of where I was four years ago - very worried about the financials. IMO, USCIS makes it seem 'easier' because - well it's just not as hard as it seems when you are in the middle of it.

If your income is short $3000, you need $9000 in assets - not $15000.

You might find this link interesting:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/AffSuppAFM062706.pdf

Boring reading I know, but this USCIS interoffice memo, issued in 2006, explains all the ins and outs of adjudicating the I864. If you can meet the criteria of the I864, you should be good to go on your I134 at interview time.

And regarding meeting in person in the last two years - USCIS has to tell people it's possible they can be approved without having met - because it is possible. They don't have to tell people that the odds are like .001 percent.

Meeting the I-864 guidelines may or may not make them good to go. It depends on the Consulate, Consular officer and the totality of the circumstances. I've seen additional sponsorship requested when a petitioner's I-134 with thousands more than 125% of the poverty guideline was submitted even though technically only 100% can "meet the guideline".

Otherwise, yes the above is spot on with regard to meeting the guidelines.

[Malysh 0]

Which makes me wonder, what else can you do to prove a CO that you won't become a public charge, even when the support requirements are met? What do they look at?

[rebeccajo 14]

Which makes me wonder, what else can you do to prove a CO that you won't become a public charge, even when the support requirements are met? What do they look at?

It's rare for such a circumstance to occur. When it does occur, it is likely the affidavit is being questioned because the Consular Officer has other reasons (real or imagined) to be suspicious of the bonafide intent of the couple.

Learn about your consulate. Learn how it views the affidavit. Learn about the behavior of consular officers towards beneficiaries. What applies at one consulate won't apply to another.

I am inclined to move this thread to the Consular Forum, but the OP also asked about vagaries between what she reads on Vj compared to USCIS.gov. As such I am leaving the thread here.

I am also leaving the thread in this forum as a 'signpost' to other readers that they MUST read ahead in this process to insure success. It is not necessary to try to learn everything about immigrating to the US early on in the process but IMO it is important to have read the roadmap of your journey.

[Anh map 2,098]

Jen, does this post mean that you haven't been able to secure a co-sponsor?

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Is a "sufficient" I-864 the only consideration for meeting any public charge issues at the time of the visa interview?

No. Even though the I-864 is a contract and the U.S. government prohibits giving immigrants most federal means-tested public benefits for at least the first five years after their arrival in the U.S., consular officers look at other public charge issues. They will look at the complete financial situation of the sponsor and the applicant. This means looking at the age, health, education, skills, financial resources and family status of the applicant and the sponsor. They will confirm to the extent possible that the applicant will have adequate financial support and is not likely to become a public charge.

Source: 864 FAQ

So "sufficient" isn't always the best way to go.

The reason most people here suggest "three" years vs "one" year is to front load the form, to show you have a "history" of income.

Even says in the instructions if you feel the need to bolster you case, send more info.

Assets, in my opinion, can be problematic, you have to have enough, be able to liquidate them if needed, without causing undue problems, 3x the amount needed to cover.

Plus with all those inputs, you have one person weighing all of them in deciding your case, whereas a co-sponsor would of made the situation easier.

on your other question:

Another thing I noticed on the the USCIS website that differed from VisaJourney was the requirement of having met in the past 2 years. VisaJourney makes it out like it would be impossible to get approved without that. USCIS makes it seem like "oh, if meeting in the past 2 years causes a lot of problems ("extreme hardship" as they called it), it's not a problem". We have met in the past two years, but I was just pointing out that difference.

Well, a simple browse through the admin decisions here (USCIS Admin Decisions (look up the D6 entries)

will show most of the rejections are based on not meeting within the 2 year period. Interesting read if you have the time.

From all my travels through the different sources of info on this process (which I did to help my own) I would say it's a really good call to have met in the 2 year period and not plan on trying to get a waiver.

In fact, i haven't really come across any AD's that were reversed with a waiver. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's pretty rare imo.