Is USA still the promised land?

[rebeccajo 14]

I beg to differ. Most people aren't 10 minutes and a boardroom decision away from personal financial disaster. That is why unemployment isn't at 75% across the nation.

yeah, some companies don't even have a boardroom. Like the one I work for. I expect any day to get to work and the front doors will be locked, with a Sheriff's notice taped to it. Maybe not 75% across the nation, but it's pretty bad in a lot of places. Around 15%+ in my area. Just because the reported rates are not high, doesn't mean all those millions have now found jobs. Some people have just stopped collecting, so they're no longer easily recorded statistics.

Or they have found work, but they are earning a lot less than before. Or took a job with no health cover just to get some cash in the door.

Or maybe they are like a lot of people I have known for years - working for ####### wages where the employer has no cover available at all.

Unless you've got enough money in the bank to pay your bills and your own insurance premiums for 1.5 to 2 years without earning wages, then you ARE someone else's 10 minute decision away from personal financial disaster.

Edited June 8, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Ladylethal 12]

It's bad everywhere, I am sure, of course not everyone will suffer but more people are suffering.

Here in PR things are BAD. No jobs at all, all companies are downsizing, a lot of companies actually closed and moved elsewhere (Panama, Dominican Republic, etc) where labor is cheaper for them (that's how I lost my job). Hubby and I make ends meet but we live on rental, our car is ####### and we see no real end to this crisis soon. And it's not just us here all our friends who are recent graduates can't find good jobs, people like me (I have a law degree but it's from Brasil and non valid here) are in a worse situation looking for jobs. Competition for good positions is fierce and then younger people are losing to those who have 10+ years of experience, masters degree, etc that were laid off when the big companies closed. The island is too small for the amount of people living here and things just don't look good at all.

Luis and I have our eyes and ears opened and are totally open to jumping on the first opportunity to move back to Brazil, as I still believe that in a crisis time my country is better somehow (a lot more government openings where instead of curriculum you take a test and highest grade gets the job, so it's equal opportunity).

Edited June 8, 2009 by *Laura*

[MrsCat 6]

I beg to differ. Most people aren't 10 minutes and a boardroom decision away from personal financial disaster. That is why unemployment isn't at 75% across the nation.

yeah, some companies don't even have a boardroom. Like the one I work for. I expect any day to get to work and the front doors will be locked, with a Sheriff's notice taped to it. Maybe not 75% across the nation, but it's pretty bad in a lot of places. Around 15%+ in my area. Just because the reported rates are not high, doesn't mean all those millions have now found jobs. Some people have just stopped collecting, so they're no longer easily recorded statistics.

Or they have found work, but they are earning a lot less than before. Or took a job with no health cover just to get some cash in the door.

Or maybe they are like a lot of people I have known for years - working for ####### wages where the employer has no cover available at all.

Unless you've got enough money in the bank to pay your bills and your own insurance premiums for 1.5 to 2 years without earning wages, then you ARE someone else's 10 minute decision away from personal financial disaster.

Just so we're clear - I'm not some trust fund baby with my head in the sand. I'm fully aware of the realities out there. When I moved to the US, I took a 35K/year pay cut. Finding a job here was tough. I've never felt so devalued in my entire life.

I work at the state unemployment office. I see plenty of people everyday in terrible situations. But at the same time, I do get to hear good news too. People who are returning to work in their previous occupations. Some leaving the State for better opportunities in another. In the past two weeks, things have turned around for the first time in months.

And in the same breath, I see plenty of people filling up their SUV's with gas at Costco, filling them with a few hundred dollars worth of groceries and arriving at their half million dollar homes. Its not bad out there for everyone. That's all I'm saying.

And RJ - I do apologize if my previous comment seemed insensitive to you given your current circumstances.

[Ladylethal 12]

Btw, if unemployment at 9% is super high for US, imagine us here, PR's unemployment rate has reached 14% this past month.

[rebeccajo 14]

It's bad everywhere, I am sure, of course not everyone will suffer but more people are suffering.

Here in PR things are BAD. No jobs at all, all companies are downsizing, a lot of companies actually closed and moved elsewhere (Panama, Dominican Republic, etc) where labor is cheaper for them (that's how I lost my job). Hubby and I make ends meet but we live on rental, our car is ####### and we see no real end to this crisis soon. And it's not just us here all our friends who are recent graduates can't find good jobs, people like me (I have a law degree but it's from Brasil and non valid here) are in a worse situation looking for jobs. Competition for good positions is fierce and then younger people are losing to those who have 10+ years of experience, masters degree, etc that were laid off when the big companies closed. The island is too small for the amount of people living here and things just don't look good at all.

Luis and I have our eyes and ears opened and are totally open to jumping on the first opportunity to move back to Brazil, as I still believe that in a crisis time my country is better somehow (a lot more government openings where instead of curriculum you take a test and highest grade gets the job, so it's equal opportunity).

Laura -

We will play our situation out for a while. But we don't have a lot of time. I'd say the odds are very high for a return to Northern Ireland for us.

Btw, if unemployment at 9% is super high for US, imagine us here, PR's unemployment rate has reached 14% this past month.

The numbers lie. They don't show the people who have exhausted their benefits and are still out of work.

A better figure would be those who are under-employed. Or those working without health insurance.

[rebeccajo 14]

I beg to differ. Most people aren't 10 minutes and a boardroom decision away from personal financial disaster. That is why unemployment isn't at 75% across the nation.

yeah, some companies don't even have a boardroom. Like the one I work for. I expect any day to get to work and the front doors will be locked, with a Sheriff's notice taped to it. Maybe not 75% across the nation, but it's pretty bad in a lot of places. Around 15%+ in my area. Just because the reported rates are not high, doesn't mean all those millions have now found jobs. Some people have just stopped collecting, so they're no longer easily recorded statistics.

Or they have found work, but they are earning a lot less than before. Or took a job with no health cover just to get some cash in the door.

Or maybe they are like a lot of people I have known for years - working for ####### wages where the employer has no cover available at all.

Unless you've got enough money in the bank to pay your bills and your own insurance premiums for 1.5 to 2 years without earning wages, then you ARE someone else's 10 minute decision away from personal financial disaster.

Just so we're clear - I'm not some trust fund baby with my head in the sand. I'm fully aware of the realities out there. When I moved to the US, I took a 35K/year pay cut. Finding a job here was tough. I've never felt so devalued in my entire life.

I work at the state unemployment office. I see plenty of people everyday in terrible situations. But at the same time, I do get to hear good news too. People who are returning to work in their previous occupations. Some leaving the State for better opportunities in another. In the past two weeks, things have turned around for the first time in months.

And in the same breath, I see plenty of people filling up their SUV's with gas at Costco, filling them with a few hundred dollars worth of groceries and arriving at their half million dollar homes. Its not bad out there for everyone. That's all I'm saying.

And RJ - I do apologize if my previous comment seemed insensitive to you given your current circumstances.

And what I said had nothing to do with that at all.

Many people are not prepared to be without work for a long duration. They cannot afford to be prepared because they are barely getting by as it is.

Driving a big SUV and pulling it into the garage of a half-million dollar house means nothing to me except that the person is probably in debt up to their eyeballs. These folks are no better prepared for a financial crisis than the bricklayer who worked on their chimney - possibly less prepared.

Sorry if I'm not the 'ray of sunshine' you were looking for. I've lived here in the US all my life. Things are not the same as they were 30 years ago when I first entered the work force. My then-husband and I both worked for small financial institutions. We each had a health insurance policy provided as a benefit of our work and we didn't pay one dime for it. I've lived through two recessions; the Savings and Loan Crisis; Cold War and post Cold War politics. I've bought gas when it was 39 cents a gallon.

And I've sat on lawn furniture in the living rooms of people with half a million dollar houses just so they could have an a fancy address.

I'm sure you see plenty in the unemployment office. Since you do, I'm even more mystified by your response to my comments.

Edited June 8, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Ladylethal 12]

Btw, if unemployment at 9% is super high for US, imagine us here, PR's unemployment rate has reached 14% this past month.

The numbers lie. They don't show the people who have exhausted their benefits and are still out of work.

A better figure would be those who are under-employed. Or those working without health insurance.

Which scares me even more.

EDIT: And yes, I've seen that too RJ, back in Rio people living in million dollar apartments in front of the beach and eating bread and bologna (cheapest type of cold meat in Brasil) and having no furniture inside to live on status.

Edited June 8, 2009 by *Laura*

[MrsCat 6]

I'm sure you see plenty in the unemployment office. Since you do, I'm even more mystified by your response to my comments.

If you would like to call me insensitive or obtuse to reality, by all means come out and say it. Or if you're implying my lack of intelligence have at 'er.

The one thing I do see that the UI office is people with hope and good attitude about the prospects of the future. I like that about my job. They haven't rolled over and are ready to piss on everyone who suggests that things are all doom and gloom.

And btw, if you look at everyone else and presume they're sitting on lawn furniture or have debt out their eyeballs, you live in a really dark place. A lot of people are doing just fine. Guess you're just not one of them.

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm sure you see plenty in the unemployment office. Since you do, I'm even more mystified by your response to my comments.

If you would like to call me insensitive or obtuse to reality, by all means come out and say it. Or if you're implying my lack of intelligence have at 'er.

The one thing I do see that the UI office is people with hope and good attitude about the prospects of the future. I like that about my job. They haven't rolled over and are ready to piss on everyone who suggests that things are all doom and gloom.

And btw, if you look at everyone else and presume they're sitting on lawn furniture or have debt out their eyeballs, you live in a really dark place. A lot of people are doing just fine. Guess you're just not one of them.

No, we aren't doing just fine.

I left a 26 year marriage with practically nothing in order to get away from a narcissistic emotionally abusive husband. Wes and I have proudly rebuilt our life in the US. We built it to be a simple life - not a load of debt, no big expectations. We have a small but cozy house which we purchased after selling the 'Big House'. We were responsible and conservative and unconcerned with keeping up with the Joneses. We were just starting to get ahead.

All I have been saying is that most persons in America are not financially prepared for a long gap in employment, especially not prepared to the point of being able to cover their medical costs. This holds just as true for the upper classes as well as all the others. Status symbols mean nothing. And if a member of their family happens to be ill - as my husband is - then a job loss in these times can be devastating.

I don't know what you want from this discussion. I think you misunderstood my comments and have tried to make them into something that was not there in the first place.

If you are looking for a fight with me, you aren't going to get it. I'm not in a 'dark place' at all. I have my eyes wide open and I know what I face in a country that has few provisions for healthcare assistance to its citizens unless they are destitute. My husband (the immigrant like you) can't file for Medicaid - remember that I864? And he hasn't lived here long enough and hasn't enough credits to even think about Social Security disability - just like you. He isn't that sickly yet and has been trying to make it here. But the social safety nets in the US are few. For some people (especially those who are older like us), there may not enough time to recover

This isn't about having a 'bad attitude' - this is about being terrified.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I beg to differ. Most people aren't 10 minutes and a boardroom decision away from personal financial disaster. That is why unemployment isn't at 75% across the nation.

There have been a lot of layoffs around here lately. Quite a few people have found similar work at similar pay after a brief hiatus. Anyone who hasn't is either temping or still comfortable enough on UI to not temp. I will admit, I am a bit amazed at how much temp work there is out there (clerical ####### paying $10-20 an hour with no benefits). That's one reason unemployment is still as low as it is, at least out here.

If you're in a household that extended itself to the maximum extent possible during the good times, and if you end up in a position of having to temp today, you're pretty much screwed until you can unload the house.

Paying for COBRA just isn't a problem right now since the Obama admin is paying most of it if you're laid off in 2009.

[scandal 951]

I beg to differ. Most people aren't 10 minutes and a boardroom decision away from personal financial disaster. That is why unemployment isn't at 75% across the nation.

There have been a lot of layoffs around here lately. Quite a few people have found similar work at similar pay after a brief hiatus. Anyone who hasn't is either temping or still comfortable enough on UI to not temp. I will admit, I am a bit amazed at how much temp work there is out there (clerical ####### paying $10-20 an hour with no benefits). That's one reason unemployment is still as low as it is, at least out here.

If you're in a household that extended itself to the maximum extent possible during the good times, and if you end up in a position of having to temp today, you're pretty much screwed until you can unload the house.

Paying for COBRA just isn't a problem right now since the Obama admin is paying most of it if you're laid off in 2009.

You live in NJ, right AJ? I think the economy there is diverse enough based on financial services, pharma, telco, etc. that there is reasonable mobility of employment.

But I think it really depends where you are geographically in the country, what your skillsets are, and what other burdens you are carrying (health concerns, underwater mortgage, student loans, etc.) as to how bad your situation is.

In MI/IN/OH the manufacturing industry based around the auto sector is being absolutely traumatized. It's as bad there as it has ever been, like EVER. Including the Depression. Towns like Flint MI and Elkhart IN are reeling. There's no temp work there, there's no work at all - people are facing devastating choices. If this were the 1930s we'd be seeing bread lines and soup kitchens and Hoovervilles. We are basically seeing the 2009 equivalent - food pantries, homeless shelters etc.

My situation happens to be pretty good - good job with no signs of trouble, and enough "emergency" reserves that I could handle a reasonably long downtime if it came to that. But I understand what RJ is saying. Most Americans really are one paycheck away from major life-altering consequences. And healthcare is a huge factor in that. COBRA is really not an adequate choice for many, even with subsidies. For generations Americans chose to live with less of a social safety net than other western countries. That is fine - it's their collective choice. Even today we have plenty of folks (many here on VJ) that don't want to hear of universal healthcare. Ok, the consequence is an inefficient patchwork of heathcare that depends upon employment. When people start losing jobs, and when they can only get temp jobs that don't offer benefits, this longstanding social policy makes its ugly presence known, loud and clear.

RJ - hang in there. My fiancee - steeped in her Buddhist ways - always likes to tell me in moments of crisis that "Every problem has an exit. You just need to find it." You will find the exit from your predicament, hold fast!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You live in NJ, right AJ?

Yes, I do. NJ's economy is diverse but in a state of decline. We've been hemorrhaging jobs for years. Pharma jobs are moving to PA, biotech is moving to Mass and Cali and low skill stuff is moving to Dixie.

[Reba 2]

The one thing I do see that the UI office is people with hope and good attitude about the prospects of the future. I like that about my job. They haven't rolled over and are ready to piss on everyone who suggests that things are all doom and gloom.

Wait til they've been out of work for 2 years or more, benefits have run out, and with no prospects of anything more than buying themselves a used lawnmower and soliciting the neighbours for odd jobs. Which is what I see every day, day in and day out at my job as receptionist in one of the last remaining furniture factories. The economy tanked here long before the rest of the country caught up last year. Jobs moved to the far east, and there's nothing left here. The folks who do have jobs are holding down 3 of them just to make ends meet.

It's nice that things are so rosey where you are. But they sure aren't here.

[MrsCat 6]

It's nice that things are so rosey where you are. But they sure aren't here.

It really is rosey here thank you.

[rebeccajo 14]

It's nice that things are so rosey where you are. But they sure aren't here.

It really is rosey here thank you.

Karma, sister - karma.

What's rosey one day can change overnight. It's better to be humble when life is good.

Edited June 8, 2009 by rebeccajo