California faces its day of fiscal reckoning

[Texanadian 10]

I understand the Republicans want to believe they are acting fiscally conservative, but they are acting fiscally irresponsible. The deficit has to be paid and the ugly truth means taxes. If there are specific state programs that the hardliners want to see cut or eliminated, they should be on a PR campaign to sell California voters on their agenda. However, they won't because California voters actually won't those state programs to continue. So we go full circle back to what I said earlier....the minority in this state have the power to stop government from functioning. It's time to end the 2/3 requirement and let the will of the majority of voters decide how to run this state.

Want and afford are two different things. California already has enough people fleeing the state for cheaper taxed Arizona and Nevada as is. Raising taxes is just going to make more people move away. Taking with them, jobs and the ability to spend in the economy. Since California is already the highest income and sales taxes and still has the highest debt per capita of any state, I fail to see how anybody could attribute their problem as being undertaxed with not enough state spending.

If you took a survey of college students and asked them if they thought beer should be free. You'd probably get a 95% approval rate. But that doesn't mean it's right. Cuts need to be made. Schwarzenegger has been up to his eyeballs with government workers and groups who are against any cutting ideas of his. Has been like that since he was elected.

Texas seems to get by fine without an income tax. As such, we're not driving people away to live somewhere else. It's just the opposite. You see more California license plates in Austin than any other state plate. We also have balanced budget laws that prevent giant deficits like California's.

I don't buy the "but we have oil" argument. Because there are 9 states that don't have income taxes and get by just fine. How does Tenneessee or Washington State get by with no income tax? How about South Dakota or New Hampshire? Here's the list of states without an income tax:

Washington

Nevada

Texas

Florida

Wyoming

Tennessee

New Hampshire (no sales tax either)

South Dakota

Alaska

Even Florida can survive without the income tax. Heck, they prosper because of it. Their only industry is oranges and guns. I don't know about the other 8 states. But in Texas, to have a state income tax would mean a voter referendum to change the state constitution. I can't see it happening anytime soon.

The cold hard truth is that all these giant spending cuts, while they seem painful on the surface are actually a huge benefit to Californians. Much like ripping up your maxed out credit cards and simply living a cheaper (poorer) lifestyle on a cash only basis is better for the long term of the individual. Not only that, but not having a state income tax allows everybody to get a little bit farther ahead in life. Encourages working and saving. The keys to any great economy and lifestyle.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Maybe so - but the point is, there is a mess currently and if you simply say, no tax increases just cut spending, the whole state infrastructure will collapse. The poor will be left to fend for themselves (leaving charities to take care of the poor, just look at India to see how well that works), the schools will be cut and cut and cut until they can't function, in fact, every single state run entity could be closed today and there would still be a need to find more funds and the state would be a mess. Is that what you envisage?

I don't buy the premise of your argument. The state has a revenue stream. It just has to spend less than the revenue coming in.

Projected revenues for fiscal year 2009-2010: $ 86,300,000,000

Projected expenditures for fiscal year 2009-2010: $111,089,000,000

Projected surplus (deficit) for fiscal year 2009-2010: ($24,789,000,000 )

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummar...mmaryCharts.pdf

[Danno 1,228]

Maybe so - but the point is, there is a mess currently and if you simply say, no tax increases just cut spending, the whole state infrastructure will collapse. The poor will be left to fend for themselves (leaving charities to take care of the poor, just look at India to see how well that works), the schools will be cut and cut and cut until they can't function, in fact, every single state run entity could be closed today and there would still be a need to find more funds and the state would be a mess. Is that what you envisage?

Why must we go all the way to India to see how it works there, we can simply look back a few years to BEFORE we had The program here in CA. I don't Recall the Golden-State looking like the streets of India.

It's so absurd that all these Illegals who got by on pennies a day in their home country suddenly MUST HAVE the Hundreds in gift money every month to "get by".

We have seen the research where nearly all have Cable TV, cell phones, and new car payments.

We have watched the Teacher to administrator ratio grow every year, now citizens are told they are going to cut all these "teachers"..... why don't they start by rolling the clock back 25 years and bring the ratio of teachs 2 admin level back to where it was then?

You are right, California did do this to themselves and a lot of people are getting a chuckle as they have ran their ship aground.

Many of us know it's just a matter of time till we are all in this same boat, the Bush/Obama spending made this a certainty.

[DEDixon 39]

I understand the Republicans want to believe they are acting fiscally conservative, but they are acting fiscally irresponsible. The deficit has to be paid and the ugly truth means taxes. If there are specific state programs that the hardliners want to see cut or eliminated, they should be on a PR campaign to sell California voters on their agenda. However, they won't because California voters actually won't those state programs to continue. So we go full circle back to what I said earlier....the minority in this state have the power to stop government from functioning. It's time to end the 2/3 requirement and let the will of the majority of voters decide how to run this state.

Want and afford are two different things. California already has enough people fleeing the state for cheaper taxed Arizona and Nevada as is. Raising taxes is just going to make more people move away. Taking with them, jobs and the ability to spend in the economy. Since California is already the highest income and sales taxes and still has the highest debt per capita of any state, I fail to see how anybody could attribute their problem as being undertaxed with not enough state spending.

If you took a survey of college students and asked them if they thought beer should be free. You'd probably get a 95% approval rate. But that doesn't mean it's right. Cuts need to be made. Schwarzenegger has been up to his eyeballs with government workers and groups who are against any cutting ideas of his. Has been like that since he was elected.

Texas seems to get by fine without an income tax. As such, we're not driving people away to live somewhere else. It's just the opposite. You see more California license plates in Austin than any other state plate. We also have balanced budget laws that prevent giant deficits like California's.

I don't buy the "but we have oil" argument. Because there are 9 states that don't have income taxes and get by just fine. How does Tenneessee or Washington State get by with no income tax? How about South Dakota or New Hampshire? Here's the list of states without an income tax:

Washington

Nevada

Texas

Florida

Wyoming

Tennessee

New Hampshire (no sales tax either)

South Dakota

Alaska

Even Florida can survive without the income tax. Heck, they prosper because of it. Their only industry is oranges and guns. I don't know about the other 8 states. But in Texas, to have a state income tax would mean a voter referendum to change the state constitution. I can't see it happening anytime soon.

The cold hard truth is that all these giant spending cuts, while they seem painful on the surface are actually a huge benefit to Californians. Much like ripping up your maxed out credit cards and simply living a cheaper (poorer) lifestyle on a cash only basis is better for the long term of the individual. Not only that, but not having a state income tax allows everybody to get a little bit farther ahead in life. Encourages working and saving. The keys to any great economy and lifestyle.

Good point there in bold.

I fail to understand why or how anyone could say... "well, if California could just raise property taxes, California would be okay."

[Danno 1,228]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

[Peikko 1,575]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

Oh. Kriss sakes! No, Its not spend money you dont have. The way most credit cards are used.

[Peikko 1,575]

Danno, is this your alternate ID?

Regardless, doing nothing to balance the budget except eliminate state service after state service is not a solution to the current CA crisis, and neither is not paying off a credit card debt for fear you might spend money you don't have in the future.

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

Danno, is this your alternate ID?

No, Im a seperate entity of the conservative movement

By the way, Danno's family spender analogy is a good example of whats happening.

Edited May 25, 2009 by cyclops10

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

Exactly! The money has already been spent and the payment is due....but the hardliner Republican Legislatures don't want to pay.

[DEDixon 39]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

Exactly! The money has already been spent and the payment is due....but the hardliner Republican Legislatures don't want to pay.

Why are you talking about hardliner Republicans? The initiatives just failed... there are a lot of DEMS that don't want to pay.

Thank God the repubs are there to give the people a choice otherwise the DEMS would tax us out of this state.

[DEDixon 39]

Danno, is this your alternate ID?

Regardless, doing nothing to balance the budget except eliminate state service after state service is not a solution to the current CA crisis, and neither is not paying off a credit card debt for fear you might spend money you don't have in the future.

Keep your eyes and ears open, it won't be long before the solution is revealed.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

Exactly! The money has already been spent and the payment is due....but the hardliner Republican Legislatures don't want to pay.

I dont know about others but when I see people trying to blame republicans for this too, I find it just outright laughable.

Raise taxes, yeah of course because it worked so good in the past.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Anybody who has ever lived with an -out of control spender- knows; raising taxes is akin to paying off credit cards.

It only enables the spender to go right back at it.

If this "day of reckoning" is somehow avoided, the next one will be even worse.

So, with both credit cards and state budgets your solution is don't pay the money you owe? I see.

Exactly! The money has already been spent and the payment is due....but the hardliner Republican Legislatures don't want to pay.

I dont know about others but when I see people trying to blame republicans for this to I find it just outright laughable.

Raise taxes, yeah of course because it worked so good in the past.

Edited May 25, 2009 by looking_up

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, is this your alternate ID?

I don't have an alternate ID, I never even changed my use-ID..... which seems to be a fad here.