Alright Constitutional Scholars...

[natty bumppo 289]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

Better. I spent the afternoon winching my old truck around so I can take the service body off tomorrow. Loads of fun. How could the Egyptians have built the pyramids without a come-along?

levers ... pulleys ... rollers ... inclined planes ... and lots of help

Edited May 24, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

Better. I spent the afternoon winching my old truck around so I can take the service body off tomorrow. Loads of fun. How could the Egyptians have built the pyramids without a come-along?

Space aliens who were in Egypt illegally, they came from Mexico by swimming across the Nile.

[natty bumppo 289]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

Better. I spent the afternoon winching my old truck around so I can take the service body off tomorrow. Loads of fun. How could the Egyptians have built the pyramids without a come-along?

Space aliens who were in Egypt illegally, they came from Mexico by swimming across the Nile.

whoa ... your geography is all messed up ...

didn't you know that "de nile" is located in Australia?

[scandal 951]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

Better. I spent the afternoon winching my old truck around so I can take the service body off tomorrow. Loads of fun. How could the Egyptians have built the pyramids without a come-along?

Space aliens who were in Egypt illegally, they came from Mexico by swimming across the Nile.

whoa ... your geography is all messed up ...

didn't you know that "de nile" is located in Australia?

[Heracles 417]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I had some work to do so I stayed at home. All we do is work work work here . I'm Aussie remember, we are outdoors 24/7. Last time I was indoors for over 5 hours there was in 1995.

Tried going for a walk here, oh wait no side walks. Tried going for a walk because it's a warm night. Oh wait no street lights plus the chance of being rapped, murdered, bashed, kidnapped, robbed, stabbed, gunned down shoots through the roof. And I'm in a safe area.

Even driving here at night is bloody hard. No proper reflectors on the road. Those things where invented how many decades ago. In Melbourne they even have the new LED solar version cat eyes now. I've actually driven on pitch black nights there without my lights on, simply using the light of those.

I would never try that here. Second of if I had a wreck I am sure there is some clause on page 3,572 of my insurance policy stating I'm not covered.

[Heracles 417]

Constellation, you really need to see more of the country, you keep waving Detroit as an indicator or what's typical.

You speak as if there is poverty on every corner, I see that on very few corners.

You probably do come from a wonderful country which explains why you have more tourist than we do..... don't you?

I have seen a lot of it. It is just a shame that the country has ended up like that. The country has some great people and a lot of #######-rs too, well here in the NE. If only the pre 60's American spirit could be rejuvenated again.

We need some of the public commercials they have in AUS here. Obviously they need to be adapted for the US as you guys need different lessons. A great commercial would be brush meet paint, meet property or object. Another would be trash meet bin or trash out window meet $500 fine.

[Heracles 417]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

So you can actually go someone without being shot there? wow

Did you have an armed escort or something?

[scandal 951]

Constellation, I combined your 3 posts into one 'quote' block.

I am not disputing your points or opinions. They are all valid. What I am disputing is the constant waste of time discussing irrelevant issues.

Who are you to decide what's irrelevant? That's very condescending to those of us who think it's highly relevant. It's your opinion that something is irrelevant. You can repeat that over and over, you will not convince us.

Further, a believe a lot of us from abroad have a story of two and can vouch for the fact that some Americans are less inclined to accept positive criticism than others. Why is that? Or is that invalid unless I can produce an academic journal to back it up.

Yes it's invalid. Because it's a sweeping generalization unbacked by any evidence whatsoever. "a lot of us". Who the hell is "a lot of us"? Does my extended family and friends in Israel, or my fiancee and her friends and family in Thailand, or my family and friends in Canada count as "a lot of us"? They're all from abroad after all? I've never heard them make any such preposterous statements. Fact is, America is a land of 300+ million people. Some are able to receive criticism, some are not. Any generalizations to this effect, certainly without evidence to that effect, is not going to convince me of anything.

I hate to say it but unfortunately it hard to break the shell without an insult. As others have pointed out, the second the Constitution is brought into the equation, people go into a trance like auto-pilot mode and preach what they have learned since birth.

I was raised in Canada. I did not learn much about US history or government until adulthood, at which point I became personally interested in the subject and have read and thought about it a great deal. This is not "from birth", in my case. My passion for constitutional discussions is an intellectual exercise in understanding the important issues of our age in a context for dealing with them. I reject your statement that this is "trance like". It is anything but.

I couldn't believe that kids have to sing the national anthem here almost on a daily basis.

They don't. They recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And they don't "have to". Children who object in most schools are able to sit quietly at their desks, or go outside.

We just don't do that back home. We want people want to be Australian because the love Australia. Not because it has been ingrained in them.

I think that's true here. Americans genuinely love their land. Of course patriotic symbols are imprinted on our children - 4th of July picnics, etc. So what? There's something wrong with that? I've lived in Israel - they fly the flag proudly, celebrate their Independence Day, and raise their children patriotically. I've lived 20+ years in Canada - the flag is flown proudly and the children (myself included) are taught to love and respect the country and its history. I daresay the same is true in Australia.

Also a reason why we don't have as many psychos trying to bomb the country. Regardless to popular belief, people are not trying to attack or have attacked the country because they are somehow jealous of it.

Those who don't want to change are doomed to fail. It doesn't mean changing your core beliefs but it does mean being dynamic to response to the pressures and issue of the time. You are right, the Australian constitution was built on the United States Constitution. They used its strengths yet nullified its ambiguity and weaknesses.

Please point to examples of "ambiguity and weakness" corrected by the all-knowing Australians.

Note: there ARE ambiguities and weaknesses in the US Constitution. Of course there are! For example - the entire debate about whether the Second Amendment is an individual or collective right. Why the heck couldn't the framers insert a bloody COMMA to make it clear!!?? We're still discussing that missing comma 200 years later. Such ambiguities are a necessary aspect of a document and a system created by (fallible) human beings. I daresay you will find such ambiguities in the Australian constitution as well.

Which is why the system is so dynamic. If something is an issue or of concern, the laws change accordingly to deal with it. Like immigrants having babies to gain citizenship. Whereas when it comes to the US, once it is written, it is written period.

That's flat wrong. T

[Heracles 417]

I must be on drugs today, well technically yesterday. Half my posts have the wrong words in them.

[scandal 951]

Please ignore post #263, read this one instead.

VJ had a spasm when I wast trying to post........

Constellation, I combined your 3 posts into one 'quote' block.

I am not disputing your points or opinions. They are all valid. What I am disputing is the constant waste of time discussing irrelevant issues.

Who are you to decide what's irrelevant? That's very condescending to those of us who think it's highly relevant. It's your opinion that something is irrelevant. You can repeat that over and over, you will not convince us.

Further, a believe a lot of us from abroad have a story of two and can vouch for the fact that some Americans are less inclined to accept positive criticism than others. Why is that? Or is that invalid unless I can produce an academic journal to back it up.

Yes it's invalid. Because it's a sweeping generalization unbacked by any evidence whatsoever. "a lot of us". Who the hell is "a lot of us"? Does my extended family and friends in Israel, or my fiancee and her friends and family in Thailand, or my family and friends in Canada count as "a lot of us"? They're all from abroad after all? I've never heard them make any such preposterous statements. Fact is, America is a land of 300+ million people. Some are able to receive criticism, some are not. Any generalizations to this effect, certainly without evidence to that effect, is not going to convince me of anything.

I hate to say it but unfortunately it hard to break the shell without an insult. As others have pointed out, the second the Constitution is brought into the equation, people go into a trance like auto-pilot mode and preach what they have learned since birth.

I was raised in Canada. I did not learn much about US history or government until adulthood, at which point I became personally interested in the subject and have read and thought about it a great deal. This is not "from birth", in my case. My passion for constitutional discussions is an intellectual exercise in understanding the important issues of our age in a context for dealing with them. I reject your statement that this is "trance like". It is anything but.

I couldn't believe that kids have to sing the national anthem here almost on a daily basis.

They don't. They recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And they don't "have to". Children who object in most schools are able to sit quietly at their desks, or go outside.

We just don't do that back home. We want people want to be Australian because the love Australia. Not because it has been ingrained in them.

I think what you write about Australia is true here as well. Americans genuinely love their land. Of course patriotic symbols are imprinted on our children - 4th of July picnics, flags, etc. So what? There's something wrong with that? I've lived in Israel - they fly the flag proudly, celebrate their Independence Day, and raise their children patriotically. I've lived 20+ years in Canada - the flag is flown proudly and the children (myself included) are taught to love and respect the country and its history. I daresay the same is true in Australia.

Also a reason why we don't have as many psychos trying to bomb the country. Regardless to popular belief, people are not trying to attack or have attacked the country because they are somehow jealous of it.

Those who don't want to change are doomed to fail. It doesn't mean changing your core beliefs but it does mean being dynamic to response to the pressures and issue of the time. You are right, the Australian constitution was built on the United States Constitution. They used its strengths yet nullified its ambiguity and weaknesses.

Please point to examples of "ambiguity and weakness" corrected by the all-knowing Australians.

Note: there ARE ambiguities and weaknesses in the US Constitution. Of course there are! For example - the entire debate about whether the Second Amendment is an individual or collective right. Why the heck couldn't the framers insert a bloody COMMA to make it clear!!?? We're still discussing that missing comma 200 years later. Such ambiguities are a necessary aspect of a document and a system created by (fallible) human beings. I daresay you will find such ambiguities in the Australian constitution as well.

Which is why the system is so dynamic. If something is an issue or of concern, the laws change accordingly to deal with it. Like immigrants having babies to gain citizenship. Whereas when it comes to the US, once it is written, it is written period.

That's flat wrong. The US Constitution has an amendment mechanism which allows it to be modified. To date it has been amended 27 times since it was first ratified. In some cases, it has been amended and the re-amended to undo a bad idea. Most famously - Prohibition was the 18th Amendment in 1919. And Repeal of Prohibition was the 21st amendment in 1933.

The county / city system is a failure an Detroit is proof of that, Further, each state collecting their own tax is a failure too. Whereas under a federal tax system the government is able to allocate resources to prevent a Detroit from happening in the first place. of course there is a lot more to Detroit than money, like white flight which affected it.

I don't understand your issue here at all. We have taxes levied at federal, state, county, and city levels for a variety of purposes and by a variety of mechanisms (income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc.). There are revenue sharing arrangements in which taxes collected at one level are transferred to a bureaucracy which disburses funds at another level. What does that have to do with Detroit, or "failures"?

Rather than hating on Toyota or pretending the don't exist, why not learn from them? As Toyota learned from US manufacturers years ago. But I guess we are still the Chrysler, per say, at the denial stage . "Nothing wrong with our trucks..". Much in the same way ANZ utilized your company's services, because you are good at what you do, the United States needs to learn from countries like Canada and Australia. Canada as in above the US Canada

Who says the US does not? The US runs enormous trade deficits. That means we send money out to import goods and services from abroad, and we do so at a greater rate than the reverse direction. Many of those imported services are financial and technical and business consulting services, just the very thing I was involved in exporting from the company I was working for in Israel to ANZ in Australia. By the way, I also exported those exact same services from Israel to Canada (TD Bank), Japan (Bank Tokyo Mitsubishi), UK/Holland (ABN Amro), and the good ol' USA (FIMAT, Refco, Prudential). All of these firms were customers that bought my company's services.

It becomes very dangerous when any constructive criticism is taken as country bashing. Such attitudes have lead to the fall of many nations.

PS A number of grammatical errors in my posts but I cannot edit it.

You also say people want to improve things yet I see zero evidence of it. For a country that has so many highly educated people, you are quite short on common sense.

Wow, there's a sweeping overbroad character assassination if I ever saw one! Are you sure you're trying to make friends??

There is a lot I see around me, state to state, that I think to myself, are you guys serious. Have you never been to other developed countries?

Yes. I've lived in them, as stated. Canada and Israel.

For a start, basics like:

• Street Lights
• Properly paved road
• Clean Roads
• Side walk
• Properly marked roads (with reflectors)

You seem like an intelligent guy uscandual, so don't you notice these things when you travel to places like Australia, Europe or developed countries in Asia?

Thank you for the compliment. I do believe I have a few functioning gray cells.

Have you visited the Jane/Finch neighborhood of Toronto? I used to live on Kipling/Finch, about 2 miles away. I know the Jane/Finch area quite well. Crack dealers on the streets, junkies in the alleys.

Have you seen the slums in Paris? Have you been to Brixton in Greater London?

Just what is your point exactly? I can't figure it out.

America has a serious problem with urban blight and poverty and crime and decay. It's true.

So do many, just about all, modern cities throughout the world. I daresay in Australia too.

Don't you see how infrastructure here is almost third world grade when compared to that of even second world countries? Australia has the first and second tallest apartment buildings in the world. Not too shabby for a country of 21 million.

Here, I partially agree with you.

America needs urgent infrastructure repair - the 1950's Eisenhower era interstate system is in disrepair. The nation's bridges need urgent attention (recall the Minneapolis collapse 2 years ago). The power and telecommunications grids are antiquated. Water delivery systems, particularly in the US Southwest, cannot sustain the growing population there.

For all of that, most countries in the world have chronic infrastructure needs as well. But I think it's true that by and large US spending on vital infrastructure has not kept up. I am hopeful that this will begin to change with the new Administration and the focus of the stimulus bill on such investment.

What about crime? The homicide rate in Chicago is one of the highest in the United States, if not the highest. Population of Chicago is: 8,711,000 Sydney: 4,119,190

Yet why such a huge disparity in crime. And I can tell you one thing, there are some violent people in Sydney who would make MS-13, Crips, bloods piss their pants. We were convicts after all. Hence the Cronulla riots. The Crips would become the crippled there. . Then again we don' have the ACLU and NAACP types protecting the thugs.

My own view on crime in the US comes down to one word: guns. There are simply way too many guns in this country. And that leads to far too many tragic outcomes of discharge of firearms. I know this is a controversial point of view, many of my friends here on VJ will strongly disagree with me. It is my view. I grew up in Canada that does not have the 2nd amendment gun culture in this country. It is one thing about living in America that I personally find very alienating, this obsession with guns. Heck, I lived in Israel where all the soliders are casually walking around with Galil and M16s everywhere, and I didn't feel as much in a "gun country" as I do here.

Peace.

Edited May 24, 2009 by uscandual

[scandal 951]

I can't believe you freaks spent the whole day arguing about meaningless #######. Go outside and get some sun you vampires!

I just got home after a lovely dinner with some cousins who were in town. Happy now?

So you can actually go someone without being shot there? wow

Did you have an armed escort or something?

We ate here http://www.starofsiamchicago.com/

Fashionable and affordable Thai restaurant in the heart of Chicago's Magnificent Mile.

You've got a very distorted view of what life is like on a beautiful warm May Saturday night in the nation's 3rd largest city.

The only danger I faced was the cholesterol attack from the Coldstone's ice cream we had for dessert. Sorry to disappoint but no drive by shootings on the Mag Mile. Now, the South Side of Chitown..... that's a whole nuther story....

[Heracles 417]

...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Either am I trying to be offensive. It is what it is. What you are doing is the equivalent of a Chrysler exec telling a Toyota exec that they are wrong about vehicles. The Toyota exec doesn't need to break apart the vehicle or conduct a million dollar study in order to prove that his vehicle's are much better. He just uses the sales and reliability figures to do that for him.

Much in the same way I can look at the Human development index, quality of life index, rate of poverty charts, most livable city ranks, world tourism rankings, heck even house prices. Really you name it. So opinions aside, it's not too hard to draw a conclusion on which country knows what they are doing and which does not. Which is now bankrupt to which is not. Thanks to google maps I can even compare cities like:

Downtown Chicago:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=chicago&...12.24,,0,-13.35

vs

Downtown Melbourne:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=chicago&...,342.3,,0,-0.05

I'd say checkmate on that one too.

You obviously have some experience with Australian banks right? Have you noticed that not one bank has failed there. Furthermore, they are delivering profit after profit after profit. Macquarie has made me a hell of a lot of money. My 401k equivalent (superannuation) there has increased the past year. But according to you, nope that is not good enough. We need scholarly reviewed academic journals to prove it.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Constellation

[Heracles 417]

uscandual you're an intelligent guy and I am not doubting that for a second. Unfortunately for a country with so many 'intellects', you guys tend to make some of the dumbest decisions or lack of. I am not saying Australia is a utopia by any stretch but in terms of quality of life for the average Joe, they live a much better life there. Much Much better. They even live longer. Now for the mega rich, America is the place to be. Your average Joe there also earns a hell of a lot of money. Someone like Gary, who I have a lot of respect for, would live a dam good life there.

Don't take my word for it by any means. Just jump on google streetview and have a look at the place. Better yet have a holiday there. Sydney is a little different to Melbourne. We have a bit of rivalry going on with our cities.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Constellation

[scandal 951]

I am going to concede some points to you here, Constellation.

#1 - on certain key measures, the US is lagging behind other developed countries. As you correctly point out that Human Development, Quality of Life, etc. are consistently higher statistically in Scandinavian countries, Holland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan.

#2 - the chronic failure in the US to address these shortfalls has a lot to do with the nation's priorities and spending. And in turn that is a function of the political dynamics of the country. Congress has been absolutely inept - across the aisle- to tackle these matters headlong. We have had decades of deficit spending (with the exception of the surpluses in the last few years of the Clinton administration), and the results of that spending do not measure up. No wonder that Congress's popularity rankings are abysmal.

But.....

On many other fronts, the US is world leading and continues to be the envy of its peers. In terms of technical innovation, the liquidity and strength of its capital markets, the work ethic of its labor force, don't count America out. Yes, the Chinese are catching up. But you know what? We heard that decades ago about the Japanese and the Germans. And yes, Toyota has surpassed the Big3 in sales - of course we have a lot to learn from them, and others. We are all in a global economy. I'd suggest you read Thomas Friedman's The World is Flat . Everybody is in a race to catch up and compete with everybody else. We're all in it together, and America has strengths and weaknesses in this race.

What was the point of your Google maps? I absolutely did not get that at all. So.... downtown Melbourne, downtown Chicago... so????

[scandal 951]

uscandual you're an intelligent guy and I am not doubting that for a second. Unfortunately for a country with so many 'intellects', you guys tend to make some of the dumbest decisions or lack of. I am not saying Australia is a utopia by any stretch but in terms of quality of life for the average Joe, they live a much better life there. Much Much better. They even live longer. Now for the mega rich, America is the place to be. Your average Joe there also earns a hell of a lot of money. Someone like Gary, who I have a lot of respect for, would live a dam good life there.

Don't take my word for it by any means. Just jump on google streetview and have a look at the place. Better yet have a holiday there. Sydney is a little different to Melbourne. We have a bit of rivalry going on with our cities.

I've been to both.

In Sydney I was fortunate enough to have a weekend in addition to my business days, so I did some sightseeing in the Blue Mountains, and checked out the babes on Bondi Beach. I also won AUD$300 playing poker in the Sydney casino.

In Melbourne I was only there on business days, so it was just hotel to the bank, bank to the hotel each day. I'd like to go back some time, but it's a hell of a long flight!