More Police brutality

[Heracles 417]

Another tangent - that relates to nothing I wrote above.

But I am wonder why you don't "walk the walk" - After all you're the one who said you'd clean up MS-13 "high noon" style. You haven't done it, neither has your wife - why not?

And if not - why are asking me to do it?

You're the one who is condemning their actions, therefore, you are the one who should lead by example and show them how it should be done. Show them how to handle criminals who simply don't care about them or other people's lives.

Being a police officer is hard enough as it is, they certainly don't need any more rules, regulations and #######. How about some support and encouragement so they don't crack? instead of belittling them.

It is often the people who get paid the least and do the most for society, that are antagonized the most in the US. Like police and teachers.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Heracles 417]

As we have amply demonstrated in the past, incarceration rates amongst these people who are visibly different are indeed higher. What is disputed is the reason for this. In your opinion it's because they are simply more inclined to thuggery and in mine well, let's just say I don't buy that bullshit.

Inclined? why would they be inclined? People's own actions (choices) speak for themselves. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. People make a conscious choice to gang bang; while others make a choice to hit the books or start a business or work for a charity or help the disabled or fix their community up rather than tag it up etc etc etc.

The issue I have with your logic is that you pretend there is no problem and believe that everyone not only acts but is motivated equally; regardless of the research that suggest otherwise about cultural differences. I guess if Cleo says we are equal, we are bloody well equal.

Therefore, per 100,000 people, crime rates should be distributed equally across the various ethnicities right?

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah, if all things were equal but they are not BY. People of colour, be that black or brown are not more likely to be thugs. There is nothing in their genes that predisposes to criminality.

[Peikko 1,575]

I know you are confused BY. You believe, erroneously that somehow 'my type' () forgive criminals because of their background. Not true. Everyone who commits a crime should be treated in the same way. What is wrong, is ascribing traits to a group based on skewed data, which is what I believe you do with people who are visibly different.

[Heracles 417]

Ah, if all things were equal but they are not BY. People of colour, be that black or brown are not more likely to be thugs. There is nothing in their genes that predisposes to criminality.

No sh-. Why would someone's melanin have anything to do with crime?

Though you still do not comprehend the cultural differences or demographical differences amongst people. Even on a state level, someone from Jersey is nothing like a Nebraskan and so forth but apparently to you they all think and act they same. They certainly do not. A trip to either states would prove that. A New Jerseyite is materialistic, with an attitude and a Gino accent. Whereas Nebraskans are nice carying individuals, not driven by the love of themselves or their money.

You want empirical proof. We'll plan a trip to Nebraska and then a trip to Jersey. If you can tell me that Nebraskans are wankers akin to the like of those from New Jersey. I'll donate $10K to a charity of your choice. And this is a big call as I am stereotyping on a state level based on my own observations.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Heracles 417]

I know you are confused BY. You believe, erroneously that somehow 'my type' () forgive criminals because of their background. Not true. Everyone who commits a crime should be treated in the same way. What is wrong, is ascribing traits to a group based on skewed data, which is what I believe you do with people who are visibly different.

In funny that you can say something like that here, in the states, and some people will believe you. Suggest something like that overseas and people would laugh. Statistics cannot be racist or biased unless someone manipulates the data. There is an awful lot of data to be manipulated, don't you think?

Nevertheless, if the crime stats show that per 100,000 people, the rate of murder based on ethnicity is:

Australians 567

Brits 257

Chinese 195

Saudi Arabian 18

Japanese 8

In your mind these must be wrong and biased. Rather than actually comprehending it as an indication that something is amiss with those Aussies.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Peikko 1,575]

Wrong again BY. I do not think everyone is a clone. I don't however believe that ascribing stereotypes is a very useful exercise. I know you do, hence why I am also a 'type'.

Do you mean there is something wrong with Aussies? I think your list is fVucked

Site your source too, numbers out of fresh air are necessarily meaningless.

I think we could even say manipulated in this instance

[Heracles 417]

Wrong again BY. I do not think everyone is a clone. I don't however believe that ascribing stereotypes is a very useful exercise. I know you do, hence why I am also a 'type'.

I did not mean type in an offensive way. I meant it as per chain of thought, logic. Sympathy to the criminal etc

Believe it or not, over the years I have listened to you guys and some of your logic does hold water. The poor to get the short end of the stick, so yes, being that there is a hell of a lot of poor African Americans, they will turn to crime. This is also a reason why I disagree with Matt85's no government libertarian view. These guys need help and assistance. Rather than the pick up your boot straps approach, which has failed this country.

Nonetheless, poverty does not justify crime or murder. Poverty does not justify why a demographic of people choose to gang bang rather than work with one another and use the free education they have access to, to get ahead. Whereas, you simply pretend nope there is no cultural issue here. These people are simply held down by the past. Therefore, you are insinuating that their present actions (or lack) of are irrelevant.

Do you mean there is something wrong with Aussies? I think your list is fVucked

Site your source too, numbers out of fresh air are necessarily meaningless.

I think we could even say manipulated in this instance

I though it was a given that I made the list up, that is, as an example. The only difference is that I did not use minorities, so you probably won't defend it.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Another tangent - that relates to nothing I wrote above.

But I am wonder why you don't "walk the walk" - After all you're the one who said you'd clean up MS-13 "high noon" style. You haven't done it, neither has your wife - why not?

And if not - why are asking me to do it?

You're the one who is condemning their actions, therefore, you are the one who should lead by example and show them how it should be done. Show them how to handle criminals who simply don't care about them or other people's lives.

Being a police officer is hard enough as it is, they certainly don't need any more rules, regulations and #######. How about some support and encouragement so they don't crack? instead of belittling them.

It is often the people who get paid the least and do the most for society, that are antagonized the most in the US. Like police and teachers.

This is one of those times where you really need to step back think through your reasoning before you commit it to text.

Plenty of jobs are "hard", that's not in question - but when those jobs are paid for on the public dime - the paying public have the right of criticism and some expectation of competence.

There's no expectation that someone "walk in a politician's shoes" before criticising them for that bribe they took (greed is only human after all), nor is there an similar requirement that a person "spend a day with a police officer" before expressing outrage at police brutality (damn they almost killed my mate - well its ok to kick them half to death in "retaliation").

Your argument is yet another of your many red herrings. And I have lost my taste for herring.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Private Pike

[Peikko 1,575]

Wrong again BY. I do not think everyone is a clone. I don't however believe that ascribing stereotypes is a very useful exercise. I know you do, hence why I am also a 'type'.

I did not mean type in an offensive way. I meant it as per chain of thought, logic. Sympathy to the criminal etc

Believe it or not, over the years I have listened to you guys and some of your logic does hold water. The poor to get the short end of the stick, so yes, being that there is a hell of a lot of poor African Americans, they will turn to crime. This is also a reason why I disagree with Matt85's no government libertarian view. These guys need help and assistance. Rather than the pick up your boot straps approach, which has failed this country.

Nonetheless, poverty does not justify crime or murder. Poverty does not justify why a demographic of people choose to gang bang rather than work with one another and use the free education they have access to, to get ahead. Whereas, you simply pretend nope there is no cultural issue here. These people are simply held down by the past. Therefore, you are insinuating that their present actions (or lack) of are irrelevant.

Do you mean there is something wrong with Aussies? I think your list is fVucked

Site your source too, numbers out of fresh air are necessarily meaningless.

I think we could even say manipulated in this instance

I though it was a given that I made the list up, that is, as an example. The only difference is that I did not use minorities, so you probably won't defend it.

Again, sympathy for the criminal? Poverty justifies crime? Where do you get these ideas, really? All I ever argue is that everyone is held to the same standards. That's it.

[Heracles 417]

Your argument is yet another of your many red herring.

Ah, good old arm chair opinions. Lets accuse others of not doing their job while failing to show otherwise.

Personally, if I am going to accuse someone of doing a sh-t job without willing to take on the job and show them otherwise. I never just sit there and condemn others working with criminals or terrorist, while I am in my cushy safe job. Clearly this is just something you don't get.

These police officers put their lives on the line for what, a few bucks. Others even do it for FREE as auxiliary police. Yet in your mind a job is a job and that they should clearly act in a manner similar to a robot, with no feelings or emotions. If that vehicle the moron was driving had veered a few inches to the left, the police officer would have been killed or disabled. Would you have shown any outrage about it or demanded this criminal pay for his actions?

Once dying becomes part of your job, only then can you come back and tell me that these guys overacted. You go to work and come home. These guys wake up knowing that they might not make it home because of the actions of those you defend. They have a bloody right to overact when someone is grossly negligent and simply does not care about their life. As rightfully anyone else in their shoes would have. In the same manner that if someone breaks into my home with the intention to hurt or kill my family, I have the right to kill them.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[Niels Bohr 72]

Justice != Revenge

No good deeds goes unpunished.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Niels Bohr

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think BY thinks that those standards amount to "sympathy". If his view is that "certain demographics" are responsible for the majority of crime and should be treated differently as a result, arguing to for equal standards of treatment probably amounts to political correctness.

Would be my guess....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Your argument is yet another of your many red herring.

Ah, good old arm chair opinions. Lets accuse others of not doing their job while failing to show otherwise.

Personally, if I am going to accuse someone of doing a sh-t job without willing to take on the job and show them otherwise. I never just sit there and condemn others working with criminals or terrorist, while I am in my cushy safe job. Clearly this is just something you don't get.

These police officers put their lives on the line for what, a few bucks. Others even do it for FREE as auxiliary police. Yet in your mind a job is a job and that they should clearly act in a manner similar to a robot with no feelings or emotions. If that vehicle the moron was driving had veered a few inches to the left, the police officer would have been killed or disabled. Would you have show any outrage about it or demanded this criminal pay for his actions?

Once dying becomes part of your job, only then can you come back and tell me that these guys overacted. You go to work and come home. These guys wake up knowing that they might not make it home. They have a bloody right to overact when someone is grossly negligent and simply does not care about their life. As rightfully anyone else in their shoes would have.

So you'll run for political office before you criticise Eliott Spitzer or Rod Blagojevich will you?

That's what you're saying....

Again - we pay the salaries of these people. They are accountable and answerable to the tax paying public.

Its not hard to understand. Nor is it outrageous.

[Heracles 417]

Again - we pay the salaries of these people. They are accountable and answerable to the tax paying public.

Its not hard to understand. Nor is it outrageous.

What do you pay when one of the dies? Jack sh-t. Or what is that just collateral damage.

I at least back those who serve and protect with their lies. Something no money can buy. A law enforcement officers life s a hell of a lot more important that a criminals rights. Something that is a no-brainer abroad, even in your mother country.

Cops do not make much anyway. Fact is that if the criminal had been white, nobody would have cared. Being that he is black, it becomes racially motivated.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation