Healthcare Behind Bars

[Peikko 1,575]

Meeting out an appropriate punishment is not misplaced sympathy it has nothing to do with sympathy. A sentence should be appropriate to the crime, neither too lenient not to severe, simply appropriate. A sentence that results in blindness and crippling is not appropriate.

If you want punishments that mirror a desire for brutality, there are certainly places you can move to.

[almaty 19]

That's not what the great unwashed want though. They want prisoners in prison, but the punishment should cost them nothing, or very little. They want prison to mean gruel, water, hard labour and cramped conditions. They want punishment to be brutal because that's what the guilty deserve.

well sister, they are the ones who cry about their taxes, too..cannot have their cake and eat it too...

corrections has become a warehouse of social misfits...and mandated sentence guidleines is the only fair tool to level out unjust sentences.

.example..i worked for the parole board in kansas at a prison...i had the records KBI, of inmates in my program....1 inmate sentenced after 6 purse snatching and demanding $$ without a weapon to 2-5 yrs...

another inmate..in a small rural county sentenced on 1st offense to demanding $$ and a senior citizen wallet to 8-20 years...(no weapon)///

all sentencing was left up to the judge

[_Simpson_ 250]

Meeting out an appropriate punishment is not misplaced sympathy it has nothing to do with sympathy. A sentence should be appropriate to the crime, neither too lenient not to severe, simply appropriate. A sentence that results in blindness and crippling is not appropriate.

If you want punishments that mirror a desire for brutality, there are certainly places you can move to.

of course its not a fitting punishment for stealing, but you put yourself in these situations and you could face unintended consequences. Thief breaks into my house he takes the chance of being shot. If he is shot and wounded tough luck, I shouldnt be burdened at all.

[_Simpson_ 250]

one more thing I do realize that prisons have to be built and I will be burdened in that sense but it should end there.

[almaty 19]

On June 30, 2008 —

– 2,310,984 prisoners were held in federal or state prisons or in local jails – an increase of 0.8% from yearend 2007, less than the average annual growth of 2.4% from 2000-2007.

– 1,540,805 sentenced prisoners were under state or federal jurisdiction.

– there were an estimated 509 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents – up from 506 at yearend 2007.

– the number of women under the jurisdiction of state or federal prison authorities increased 1.2% from yearend 2007, reaching 115,779, and the number of men rose 0.7%, totaling 1,494,805.

At midyear 2008, there were 4,777 black male inmates per 100,000 black males held in state and federal prisons and local jails, compared to 1,760 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 727 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.

In 2005 there were an estimated 687,700 state prisoners serving time for a violent offense. State prisons also held an estimated 248,900 property offenders and 253,300 drug offenders.

[_Simpson_ 250]

On June 30, 2008 —

– 2,310,984 prisoners were held in federal or state prisons or in local jails – an increase of 0.8% from yearend 2007, less than the average annual growth of 2.4% from 2000-2007.

– 1,540,805 sentenced prisoners were under state or federal jurisdiction.

– there were an estimated 509 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents – up from 506 at yearend 2007.

– the number of women under the jurisdiction of state or federal prison authorities increased 1.2% from yearend 2007, reaching 115,779, and the number of men rose 0.7%, totaling 1,494,805.

At midyear 2008, there were 4,777 black male inmates per 100,000 black males held in state and federal prisons and local jails, compared to 1,760 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 727 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.

In 2005 there were an estimated 687,700 state prisoners serving time for a violent offense. State prisons also held an estimated 248,900 property offenders and 253,300 drug offenders.

see whitey is trying to lead by example but nobody is following

[Peikko 1,575]

one more thing I do realize that prisons have to be built and I will be burdened in that sense but it should end there.

So, who pays to run them? Building jails is not the be all and the end all, they cost money to run even if you do run them at minimal cost (which by the by a lot of them currently are) Perhaps jails should be self financing? Get the criminals to work instead of lounging around in jail? Oh, but wait, can't have that, that would mean those who hadn't committed a crime might be put out of work by those pesky criminals. It's sure is a head scratcher isn't it? Perhaps we need a 'final solution'? Eh?

As for consequences of actions. Sure, doing wrong should not go unpunished, but again, the consequences should be appropriate to the crime committed, not result in permanant disability (which again burdens the tax payer, oh the circle, it's maddening!).

Your 'simple' solutions don't work in the real world. I would suggest you try reading up on late 18th and 19th century social history. It might give you some perspective on the kinds of solutions to crime that society has already tried. Prison reform didn't just come out of some namby pamby desire to 'be nice' to criminals, which is what you seem to think at the moment.

Seems that US education isn't serving it's customers very well in the social sciences either...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Period rectal exams is the only health care that prisoners should be entitled to.

He!! they do that to each other! He!! throw a little virus in there and BAM more bed space. Simple.

son, we are so on the same page! prisons should make ####-RAPIN a rekwirement of admisshun!

[almaty 19]

primitive and i am sure against the constitution and laws of mankind

[_Simpson_ 250]

Your calling my ideas simple when we really havent gone into depth on this situation. I was referring to when the prisoner leaves prison. I didnt mean as soon as it built we shouldnt have to pay, they need to eat and what not I get it and I think it goes without saying.

I know we have to pay to keep our prisons running. I know that my tax dollars will pay for roads that I will never travel, buildings I will never enter and I am ok with this, but we need to draw a line. A released prisoner should be on his own.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

He doesn't require your sympathy, but the sentence was not x years and a side order of cripple and blind. He is now a burden on the tax payer as he obviously can't work. Perhaps his sentence should have been death? A site cheaper and good riddance eh?

When I bought my new plasma tv I didnt order a side order of take my tv you stupid no good rotten thief. Breaking the law has consequences and the tax payers should not be burdened at all, but your right we will be and with your line of logic and sympathy nothing will change. Him being blind is a result of him being a worthless thief and the burden should be all on him.

Good thing he doesnt need my sympathy, he would be sh*t out of luck.

I think its all very well to sit back and try to justify this - but nothing about it is justifiable.

You clearly think that what happened to this guy is justifiable based on your dislike of criminals and thieves - and that because of this he deserved all and anything that happened to him. However you want to present it - your emotional bias has nothing to do with the fact that the prison authorities neglected a common (chronic) medical condition that resulted in this man being permanently disabled.

It is entirely reasonable to level responsibility for this on the prison services, who are entrusted not only to lock away offenders and ensure that they comply to a prison routine, but with some requirement of care of their well-being.

If we lived in some tin-pot backwater where it was perfectly acceptable to put people in filthy jail cells, make them eat their own feces and dole out regular floggings and electric shock torture - all of this would be moot.

But we don't. We live in a first world nation that sets some store in the concept of human rights - by which standard few things reveal more about a society than how it treats its lowest members.

[sj5 4]

He could get a job then buy the items he wanted.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Your calling my ideas simple when we really havent gone into depth on this situation. I was referring to when the prisoner leaves prison. I didnt mean as soon as it built we shouldnt have to pay, they need to eat and what not I get it and I think it goes without saying.

I know we have to pay to keep our prisons running. I know that my tax dollars will pay for roads that I will never travel, buildings I will never enter and I am ok with this, but we need to draw a line. A released prisoner should be on his own.

If his diminished capacity is a direct result of the state's negligence, then they do have a responsibility to pay for their error.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why was a custodial sentence handed down for "theft" to begin with? There's quite a bit of difference between grand larceny, burglary and shoplifting...

[Peikko 1,575]

OK, fair enough, I take your point that you stopped at the 'building prisons' but really meant building, maintaining and running.

Now, if you actually talk to people in the prison service, what they want to see, what society as a whole should want to see (and most do, after all, a rehabilitated, functioning, working ex prisoner is no longer a burden on society) is prisoners re integrating into society and not re offending. Obviously, that depends upon the type of crime committed etc etc. It is a proven fact that simply opening the prison gates at the end of sentencing and telling the prisoner good bye and good riddance (or even good luck, whatever strikes your fancy) is pretty much a guarantee that that prisoner will be back again, placing that burden back on the good 'ol tax payer.

I am sure it would be nice, if simply sending people to prison guaranteed some 'revelatory' experience that would mean no one ever re offends. In reality those who work in this field know that those who are re habitable require a lot of work to get them to that point, which requires, well more than simply providing gruel and water and hard labour in prison and more than opening the gates at the end of the sentence to achieve. As I say, social history, interesting and informative.