what happened to me at customs?! HORRIBLE situation

[Cindy & Greg 0]

Are you saying i made up all that story for NOTHING?!... Im sorry but do YOU REALLY think i dont have anythin else better to do than posts in here for hours?!!! Why would i spend an hour typing my initial post then get asnwers and asnwer back all day for no reason?

IT HAPPENED TO me alright! maybe you dont believe me coz what happened to me what so ridiculously stupid and unreal!

If you are the kind of person thinking I could post long stories in here , if you think I making this up and it is nothing but lies sorry but then you dont have to post and make comments abt what happened that day and imply in front of everybody in here that im a liar!!!.....its not because you ve been working w airlines for years that you know IT ALL ,....im sorry but you obv DONT!!!

I dont need that kind of asnwers from people!....

IM saying what happened to me, its not lies sorry.....now dt bother answering if you think im tellin lies dont you have better things to do then?!

Yes, I am saying you made up this story. There is no way this would have happened. The airports in North America, all have cameras. You are being watched by the officers supivisors and managers. They take security very seriously and would not waste the hours you claimed they wasted on someone who was not high risk. They all have much, much better things to do. The reason I think you made this story up is that you spoke many times of "stereotypical american cops" - I think you have a hate for Americans and that you aren't really who you say you are. I think you wrote the story for propagadana. Sorry, but I am not a sheep who blindly follows. I read, I interprete and I investigage and ask questions. I've explained to you that I have 10 years expereince, AT AN AIRPORT, with immigration and customs officers - no, that does not mean I know it all, but I know better than you and anyone else who does not have the same expereince. What you have explained would not happen - unless you gave it reason to happen or showed to be high risk for some reason. Read the Department of Homeland Security they are very upfront about thier policies and procedures.

As for not making posts and commenting? I CAN do that. I live in a free country - Canada, and I am moving to an equally free country - America. This is my right to respond, to question, to educate. Disregard it, ignore it, be angry about it - that is YOUR right.

Cheers!

[Matt & Bing 56]

*sigh*

I predict a finite shelf life for this thread.

Sorry - I know, this one has gone way off topic. I won't post in this thread anymore. Maybe it will die a natural death ... but I doubt it too.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

[scandal 951]

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

maybe it wasn't the nicest thing to say, what lovestevie said about 'american policemen in airports' but you are not much better. she generalized 'american policemen in airports', you an entire country two generations after the war is over. we all know germany has a terrible history that can't be denied. Just don't put yourself above the world. as much as you seem to know germany's history you should know that this is what hitler did.

I didn't take history in the US, but maybe you were taught you saved the world. thank you for that btw. I am starting to get down on your level which I told myself not to do, so I better stop.

anyways, I should be used to comments about germany's history, since I am confronted with that by the dhs everytime I enter the US.

quote from the 1-94W:

"Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage;or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in the persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?"

save your comment, I am over that confrontation and can deal with that B)

Thumbs up

VERY sadly new generations in Germany are still being held responsible for what many leaders, yeah you read me right, were responsible for 65 years ago. Even our "so respected General Petain" who alledgedly collaborated with the Nazi movement. I don't want to redo history here, not my point.

But someone thinking that America saved Europe is a fool of himself. Get back to your history books, and tell me how you can support you arguments.

This has the potential to degenerate into a very bitter argument in a hurry.

I AM affronted by most of what you say.

Vichy France "allegedly" collaborated? There is nothing "alleged" about it. Vichy France WAS an active Nazi collaborator.

You suggest that only the "leaders" of Germany should be held responsible? Meaning that the cadres of SS who implemented the Final Solution - the mass arrests, deportations, shootings, transports, exterminations, gassings, cremations and desecrations - were "just following orders" and not personally culpable? That argument didn't wash at Nuremberg. And it does not wash today. It took many, many thousands of people to implement the mechanics of the Holocaust. And it took a complicit nation that elected the Nazis to power and stood by as they put their murderous regime in place. This is not a crime that can be attributed solely to a few "leaders".

As to holding new generations of Germans accountable - I truly do not believe that this is the case. Germany as a nation came to terms with its Nazi past. It has hate crime legislation much tougher than most other democratic nations. It teaches the lessons of the Holocaust to German schoolchildren much more effectively than most other European countries. Every German leader that comes to Israel visits Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Germany has "put its money where it's mouth is" in terms of war reparations and survivor payments. For the most part, the state of Israel and the Jewish people recognize that the modern state of Germany is a friend and ally. We will NEVER forget or forgive the Nazi crimes of the Holocaust. But we can distinguish that era from today, and recognize the transformation Germany went through after the war.

As to Americans saving Europe - as has been pointed out already, it was an Allied effort. Briitsh, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Free French and others participated in the D Day landings and the liberation of Europe. As did the Soviet forces coming from the East. So let's not say "America saved Europe" - I'll be content with the "Allies saved Europe". But save Europe they most certainly did. And there are thousands of graves in Normandy to attest to that fact.

[Ed+Cindy 1]

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

This post was inappropriate.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

This post was inappropriate.

It was a bit over the top; yet considering the utterly dismissive, whiny and arrogant attitude of the OP; I really will not loose one minute of sleep over what rmncm said.

[Krikit 1,164]

Yes, I am saying you made up this story. There is no way this would have happened.

I believe her story. But that's because I have had experience with this type of activity, as have many others. It sounds completely plausible.

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

This post was inappropriate.

I completely agree with you, Ed+Cindy.

[Kinito_2k3 5]

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

maybe it wasn't the nicest thing to say, what lovestevie said about 'american policemen in airports' but you are not much better. she generalized 'american policemen in airports', you an entire country two generations after the war is over. we all know germany has a terrible history that can't be denied. Just don't put yourself above the world. as much as you seem to know germany's history you should know that this is what hitler did.

I didn't take history in the US, but maybe you were taught you saved the world. thank you for that btw. I am starting to get down on your level which I told myself not to do, so I better stop.

anyways, I should be used to comments about germany's history, since I am confronted with that by the dhs everytime I enter the US.

quote from the 1-94W:

"Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage;or in terrorist activities; or genocide;or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in the persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?"

save your comment, I am over that confrontation and can deal with that B)

Thumbs up

VERY sadly new generations in Germany are still being held responsible for what many leaders, yeah you read me right, were responsible for 65 years ago. Even our "so respected General Petain" who alledgedly collaborated with the Nazi movement. I don't want to redo history here, not my point.

But someone thinking that America saved Europe is a fool of himself. Get back to your history books, and tell me how you can support you arguments.

This has the potential to degenerate into a very bitter argument in a hurry.

I AM affronted by most of what you say.

Vichy France "allegedly" collaborated? There is nothing "alleged" about it. Vichy France WAS an active Nazi collaborator. Language Mistake - I meant actively

You suggest that only the "leaders" of Germany should be held responsible? Meaning that the cadres of SS who implemented the Final Solution - the mass arrests, deportations, shootings, transports, exterminations, gassings, cremations and desecrations - were "just following orders" and not personally culpable? That argument didn't wash at Nuremberg. And it does not wash today. It took many, many thousands of people to implement the mechanics of the Holocaust. And it took a complicit nation that elected the Nazis to power and stood by as they put their murderous regime in place. This is not a crime that can be attributed solely to a few "leaders". I was trying to point out that not only German leaders but also many european/global leaders are responsible. As per the implementation part of your argument, people that had power have to be blamed for what happened, not the implementers - Do you troops in the world 100% agree with the foreign policy of the USA? I don't think so...but they do their job, period.

As to holding new generations of Germans accountable - I truly do not believe that this is the case. Germany as a nation came to terms with its Nazi past. It has hate crime legislation much tougher than most other democratic nations. It teaches the lessons of the Holocaust to German schoolchildren much more effectively than most other European countries. Every German leader that comes to Israel visits Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Germany has "put its money where it's mouth is" in terms of war reparations and survivor payments. For the most part, the state of Israel and the Jewish people recognize that the modern state of Germany is a friend and ally. We will NEVER forget or forgive the Nazi crimes of the Holocaust. But we can distinguish that era from today, and recognize the transformation Germany went through after the war. Again not my point - my point was that in many cases, you will still witness many young German people being wrongly held responsible for their history - I never was saying that they should be - and was even less referring to international non relevant BS - I was talking real life facts

As to Americans saving Europe - as has been pointed out already, it was an Allied effort. Briitsh, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Free French and others participated in the D Day landings and the liberation of Europe. As did the Soviet forces coming from the East. So let's not say "America saved Europe" - I'll be content with the "Allies saved Europe". But save Europe they most certainly did. And there are thousands of graves in Normandy to attest to that fact. Agreed - Although rmncm's post did never mentioned an Allied effort, hence my reaction

Please read comments above - You misread me and drew hasty judgement - I might have not been clear enough either, apologies for my approximate english skills, on the other hand, you could have asked me to clarify -

Edited May 21, 2009 by Kinito_2k3

[scandal 951]

This has the potential to degenerate into a very bitter argument in a hurry.

You suggest that only the "leaders" of Germany should be held responsible? Meaning that the cadres of SS who implemented the Final Solution - the mass arrests, deportations, shootings, transports, exterminations, gassings, cremations and desecrations - were "just following orders" and not personally culpable? That argument didn't wash at Nuremberg. And it does not wash today. It took many, many thousands of people to implement the mechanics of the Holocaust. And it took a complicit nation that elected the Nazis to power and stood by as they put their murderous regime in place. This is not a crime that can be attributed solely to a few "leaders". I was trying to point out that not only German leaders but also many european/global leaders are responsible. As per the implementation part of your argument, people that had power have to be blamed for what happened, not the implementers - Do you troops in the world 100% agree with the foreign policy of the USA? I don't think so...but they do their job, period.

As to holding new generations of Germans accountable - I truly do not believe that this is the case. Germany as a nation came to terms with its Nazi past. It has hate crime legislation much tougher than most other democratic nations. It teaches the lessons of the Holocaust to German schoolchildren much more effectively than most other European countries. Every German leader that comes to Israel visits Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Germany has "put its money where it's mouth is" in terms of war reparations and survivor payments. For the most part, the state of Israel and the Jewish people recognize that the modern state of Germany is a friend and ally. We will NEVER forget or forgive the Nazi crimes of the Holocaust. But we can distinguish that era from today, and recognize the transformation Germany went through after the war. Again not my point - my point was that in many cases, you will witness that many yound German people are still wrongly being held responsible for their history - I never was saying that they should be...

Please read comments above - You misread me and drew hasty judgement - I might have not been clear enough either, apologies for my approximate english skills, on the other hand, you could have asked me to clarify -

Fair enough. I've deleted those areas where we apparently have cleared up the confusion. I've left only the two points that I'd like to comment on a bit further.

As per the implementation part of your argument, people that had power have to be blamed for what happened, not the implementers - Do you troops in the world 100% agree with the foreign policy of the USA? I don't think so...but they do their job, period

You are getting right to the heart of the "just following orders" defense. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Here is my understanding of the validity of the defense.

It is appropriate and legal for a battlefield soldier to use the defense "I was just following orders" when engaging in actions that are consistent with Geneva Conventions and other international accords for the conduct of warfare (yes, there are such rules). It is NOT acceptable to say "just following orders" when engaging in actions that clearly are depravities that no human being with a conscience would believe to be proper and correct. That includes throwing babies into gas chambers. That includes marching civilians into a forest, stripping them naked and shooting them in the back into an open ditch. Those are war crimes. Just because your SS Commandant told you to do it doesn't relieve your responsibility for doing it.

As to US forces - when they are abiding by the Army Field Manual, they're good to go. When they deviate from the Field Manual (e.g. Abu Ghraib) they are prosecuted, court martialed, and serve long sentences in the military stockade. Our system works.

Again not my point - my point was that in many cases, you will witness that many yound German people are still wrongly being held responsible for their history - I never was saying that they should be... My point was that in most cases, in my experience as a Jew and as someone who lived approx. 12 years in Israel and interacted with visting Germans there, young Germans are generally NOT held responsible as individuals for the history of Germany. Apparently we just disagree on this point.

[Frenchwife 1]

the original post was " am I banned or not? ". was successful I think.

There were secondary topics that probably are covered enough now.

Let's not bring in more topics / or side comments.

short life would not surprise me either

Edited May 21, 2009 by Frenchwife

[Kinito_2k3 5]

This has the potential to degenerate into a very bitter argument in a hurry.

You suggest that only the "leaders" of Germany should be held responsible? Meaning that the cadres of SS who implemented the Final Solution - the mass arrests, deportations, shootings, transports, exterminations, gassings, cremations and desecrations - were "just following orders" and not personally culpable? That argument didn't wash at Nuremberg. And it does not wash today. It took many, many thousands of people to implement the mechanics of the Holocaust. And it took a complicit nation that elected the Nazis to power and stood by as they put their murderous regime in place. This is not a crime that can be attributed solely to a few "leaders". I was trying to point out that not only German leaders but also many european/global leaders are responsible. As per the implementation part of your argument, people that had power have to be blamed for what happened, not the implementers - Do you troops in the world 100% agree with the foreign policy of the USA? I don't think so...but they do their job, period.

As to holding new generations of Germans accountable - I truly do not believe that this is the case. Germany as a nation came to terms with its Nazi past. It has hate crime legislation much tougher than most other democratic nations. It teaches the lessons of the Holocaust to German schoolchildren much more effectively than most other European countries. Every German leader that comes to Israel visits Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Germany has "put its money where it's mouth is" in terms of war reparations and survivor payments. For the most part, the state of Israel and the Jewish people recognize that the modern state of Germany is a friend and ally. We will NEVER forget or forgive the Nazi crimes of the Holocaust. But we can distinguish that era from today, and recognize the transformation Germany went through after the war. Again not my point - my point was that in many cases, you will witness that many yound German people are still wrongly being held responsible for their history - I never was saying that they should be...

Please read comments above - You misread me and drew hasty judgement - I might have not been clear enough either, apologies for my approximate english skills, on the other hand, you could have asked me to clarify -

Fair enough. I've deleted those areas where we apparently have cleared up the confusion. I've left only the two points that I'd like to comment on a bit further.

As per the implementation part of your argument, people that had power have to be blamed for what happened, not the implementers - Do you troops in the world 100% agree with the foreign policy of the USA? I don't think so...but they do their job, period

You are getting right to the heart of the "just following orders" defense. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Here is my understanding of the validity of the defense.

It is appropriate and legal for a battlefield soldier to use the defense "I was just following orders" when engaging in actions that are consistent with Geneva Conventions and other international accords for the conduct of warfare (yes, there are such rules). It is NOT acceptable to say "just following orders" when engaging in actions that clearly are depravities that no human being with a conscience would believe to be proper and correct. That includes throwing babies into gas chambers. That includes marching civilians into a forest, stripping them naked and shooting them in the back into an open ditch. Those are war crimes. Just because your SS Commandant told you to do it doesn't relieve your responsibility for doing it.

As to US forces - when they are abiding by the Army Field Manual, they're good to go. When they deviate from the Field Manual (e.g. Abu Ghraib) they are prosecuted, court martialed, and serve long sentences in the military stockade. Our system works.

Again not my point - my point was that in many cases, you will witness that many yound German people are still wrongly being held responsible for their history - I never was saying that they should be... My point was that in most cases, in my experience as a Jew and as someone who lived approx. 12 years in Israel and interacted with visting Germans there, young Germans are generally NOT held responsible as individuals for the history of Germany. Apparently we just disagree on this point.

Part 1) I am a believer that most people at that time did not know what their actions engendered and that a few people only were aware of the final solution. I am not sure of what the "Army field manual", but my feeling is that it's an american manual, am I right?

Part 2) I talked about "many" cases as opposed to "most cases" - I sure hope that you are correct and that in most cases they are not held responsible for what happened, but in many instances it happened/still happens - Sadly -

[scandal 951]

Part 1) I am a believer that most people at that time did not know what their actions engendered and that a few people only were aware of the final solution. I am not sure of what the "Army field manual", but my feeling is that it's an american manual, am I right?

Part 2) I talked about "many" cases as opposed to "most cases" - I sure hope that you are correct and that in most cases they are not held responsible for what happened, but in many instances it happened/still happens - Sadly -

Part 1). You are simply wrong that only a few people knew. It is physically impossible to kill 6 million Jews, and millions more, without many, many, MANY thousands of people having intimate knowledge of the details of what is going on. It took planning, coordination, logistics. It took engineers, architects, transportation, construction. The Nazis implemented Death Factories on the same model of industrialization that they build tank and airplane factories. You are sadly unaware of the history of what happened. Unfortunately you are hardly alone - far too many people born in the generations after the War are unaware of the scale and enormity of what was done.

The Army Field Manual is a US Army document, yes. It codifies those principles of conduct from international law (particularly the Geneva Conventions) and US law which pertain to battlefield behavior by US troops. Most countries of the world (civilized ones, anyway) have such manuals.

Part 2) - I think we have come to some form of closure on this point.

[MonkeyJuice 3]

As a fat,lazy,dumb American I really hope they give you a life time ban...if it wasn't for us dumb,fat.lazy Americans the WHOLE world would be speaking German, heck France prolly wouldn't be on the map any more. I hope when you leave they give you a full body cavity search and the man who does it has MONSTER sized finger!

PFFT arogant french!

maybe it wasn't the nicest thing to say, what lovestevie said about 'american policemen in airports' but you are not much better. she generalized 'american policemen in airports', you an entire country two generations after the war is over. we all know germany has a terrible history that can't be denied. Just don't put yourself above the world. as much as you seem to know germany's history you should know that this is what hitler did.

I didn't take history in the US, but maybe you were taught you saved the world. thank you for that btw. I am starting to get down on your level which I told myself not to do, so I better stop.

anyways, I should be used to comments about germany's history, since I am confronted with that by the dhs everytime I enter the US.

quote from the 1-94W:

"Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage;or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in the persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?"

save your comment, I am over that confrontation and can deal with that B)

Thumbs up

VERY sadly new generations in Germany are still being held responsible for what many leaders, yeah you read me right, were responsible for 65 years ago. Even our "so respected General Petain" who alledgedly collaborated with the Nazi movement. I don't want to redo history here, not my point.

But someone thinking that America saved Europe is a fool of himself. Get back to your history books, and tell me how you can support you arguments.

This has the potential to degenerate into a very bitter argument in a hurry.

I AM affronted by most of what you say.

Vichy France "allegedly" collaborated? There is nothing "alleged" about it. Vichy France WAS an active Nazi collaborator.

You suggest that only the "leaders" of Germany should be held responsible? Meaning that the cadres of SS who implemented the Final Solution - the mass arrests, deportations, shootings, transports, exterminations, gassings, cremations and desecrations - were "just following orders" and not personally culpable? That argument didn't wash at Nuremberg. And it does not wash today. It took many, many thousands of people to implement the mechanics of the Holocaust. And it took a complicit nation that elected the Nazis to power and stood by as they put their murderous regime in place. This is not a crime that can be attributed solely to a few "leaders".

As to holding new generations of Germans accountable - I truly do not believe that this is the case. Germany as a nation came to terms with its Nazi past. It has hate crime legislation much tougher than most other democratic nations. It teaches the lessons of the Holocaust to German schoolchildren much more effectively than most other European countries. Every German leader that comes to Israel visits Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Germany has "put its money where it's mouth is" in terms of war reparations and survivor payments. For the most part, the state of Israel and the Jewish people recognize that the modern state of Germany is a friend and ally. We will NEVER forget or forgive the Nazi crimes of the Holocaust. But we can distinguish that era from today, and recognize the transformation Germany went through after the war.

As to Americans saving Europe - as has been pointed out already, it was an Allied effort. Briitsh, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Free French and others participated in the D Day landings and the liberation of Europe. As did the Soviet forces coming from the East. So let's not say "America saved Europe" - I'll be content with the "Allies saved Europe". But save Europe they most certainly did. And there are thousands of graves in Normandy to attest to that fact.

Excellent post

And there was me thinking you spent your VJ time picking on poor noobs!

Also I think we need to give the poor OP a break. She went thru a random check & found the experience frightening. I feel she is being bullied for her emotional disposition. I thought we were meant to help people on VJ?

[Kinito_2k3 5]

Part 1) I am a believer that most people at that time did not know what their actions engendered and that a few people only were aware of the final solution. I am not sure of what the "Army field manual", but my feeling is that it's an american manual, am I right?

Part 2) I talked about "many" cases as opposed to "most cases" - I sure hope that you are correct and that in most cases they are not held responsible for what happened, but in many instances it happened/still happens - Sadly -

Part 1). You are simply wrong that only a few people knew. It is physically impossible to kill 6 million Jews, and millions more, without many, many, MANY thousands of people having intimate knowledge of the details of what is going on. It took planning, coordination, logistics. It took engineers, architects, transportation, construction. The Nazis implemented Death Factories on the same model of industrialization that they build tank and airplane factories. You are sadly unaware of the history of what happened. Unfortunately you are hardly alone - far too many people born in the generations after the War are unaware of the scale and enormity of what was done.

The Army Field Manual is a US Army document, yes. It codifies those principles of conduct from international law (particularly the Geneva Conventions) and US law which pertain to battlefield behavior by US troops. Most countries of the world (civilized ones, anyway) have such manuals.

Part 2) - I think we have come to some form of closure on this point.

Whether it's physically impossible or not does not support your argument - Everything that you mentioned would have happened if the final aim was to intensively put people in Jail - I am still not convinced

[scandal 951]

Whether it's physically impossible or not does not support your argument - Everything that you mentioned would have happened if the final aim was to intensively put people in Jail - I am still not convinced

Then you are in denial. Read some history books.

Excellent post

And there was me thinking you spent your VJ time picking on poor noobs!

Also I think we need to give the poor OP a break. She went thru a random check & found the experience frightening. I feel she is being bullied for her emotional disposition. I thought we were meant to help people on VJ?

Hah!! I do consider n00bz razzing my primary task on VJ. This business of setting the record straight on the Holocaust is a sideline occupation I've picked up

As to the OP, I have some sympathy, but not a lot. No one told her to come here and bring her troubles. If she does so, she has to take the good with the bad. It's the nature of the Internet. You can't expect to control others reactions and views.

Help people? Help people? Hellooo??? Are we on the same website? N00bz

I'm kidding of course - in my Dr. Jeckyl persona I help people. In my Mr. Hyde persona I razz them like crazy. Depends how may cups of coffee I've had to drink that day.