Poll: 40% of Israeli Arabs believe Holocaust never happened

[fozzie 41]

It was very funny (but I wouldn't want that guy teaching my kids).

Seriously:

If I walk out of the office - I will either get hit by a bus or not hit by a bus. Therefore my chances of being hit by a bus are 50/50!

The upside is that I have a 50% chance of winning the lottery!

at the end of the clip, when they are down in the 'fallout shelter' he suggests that if they are the only two humans alive they should try and breed. Other guy shakes his head, JO says well there is a 50/50 chance.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

It was very funny (but I wouldn't want that guy teaching my kids).

Seriously:

If I walk out of the office - I will either get hit by a bus or not hit by a bus. Therefore my chances of being hit by a bus are 50/50!

The upside is that I have a 50% chance of winning the lottery!

....but but but the downside is you'll have a 50% chance of not winning it

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Those are better odds than 1 in 14 million!

[scandal 951]

Since this thread has apparently been resurrected, here are some thoughts on the initial post, and some of the followup between Danno & MC, before it went off onto other tangents.

On Holocaust Denial:

Antisemitism is alive out there. And Holocaust Deniers abound. And apart from their common denial of reality, they really are nothing like Creationists or Flat-Earthers. Flat Earthers are pretty much harmless. Creationists are misguided and in denial of the overwhelming scientific record, and they are harmful to the public education system in this country. But they are not filled with venomous hatred. Holocaust Deniers are not merely 'deniers'. They fabricate evidence and seek to change the historical record with one purpose in mind: vitriolic hatred.

The original article discussed a disturbing trend amongst Israeli Arabs who increasingly believe the Holocaust did not happen. For the most part, they are not the vicious "Deniers" who create and propagate those lies. Rather, they are susceptible to the message of the Deniers and have absorbed that message and bought into that fabrication. Why? And how? Especially in a society where Holocaust Remembrance is part of the national psyche. All school children in Israel, including Arab children, are taught about the Holocaust. The annual Holocaust remembrance day has great significance and is observed throughout the country. What is the dynamic going on that is leading Arabs in large numbers to believe the lies? It's clearly connected to the breakdown of progress on the Israeli/Palestinian political front, but it is a very disturbing trend.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

WORD.

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

Hey uscandual dude, I like you way of thinking, you actually use the gray matter

[fozzie 41]

Since this thread has apparently been resurrected, here are some thoughts on the initial post, and some of the followup between Danno & MC, before it went off onto other tangents.

On Holocaust Denial:

Antisemitism is alive out there. And Holocaust Deniers abound. And apart from their common denial of reality, they really are nothing like Creationists or Flat-Earthers. Flat Earthers are pretty much harmless. Creationists are misguided and in denial of the overwhelming scientific record, and they are harmful to the public education system in this country. But they are not filled with venomous hatred. Holocaust Deniers are not merely 'deniers'. They fabricate evidence and seek to change the historical record with one purpose in mind: vitriolic hatred.

The original article discussed a disturbing trend amongst Israeli Arabs who increasingly believe the Holocaust did not happen. For the most part, they are not the vicious "Deniers" who create and propagate those lies. Rather, they are susceptible to the message of the Deniers and have absorbed that message and bought into that fabrication. Why? And how? Especially in a society where Holocaust Remembrance is part of the national psyche. All school children in Israel, including Arab children, are taught about the Holocaust. The annual Holocaust remembrance day has great significance and is observed throughout the country. What is the dynamic going on that is leading Arabs in large numbers to believe the lies? It's clearly connected to the breakdown of progress on the Israeli/Palestinian political front, but it is a very disturbing trend.

Its all insidious lies designed to "wipe israel off the map" (as one world leader put it)! Unfortunately gradually the lie can become the truth.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Hey uscandual dude, I like you way of thinking, you actually use the gray matter

brother uscandual is the newest recruit of Commies for Christ. Also a n00b pwnage trainee and a FB BFF.

He also likes piña coladas and getting caught in the rain.

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

No walking on the beach?

Nevermind, I was about to recruit him for FL

[justashooter 430]

lets not forget that the jews were only 6 million. add in the czechs, poles, albanians, serbs, turks, slavs of various types, russians and ukranians, and we get soemthing like 20 million.

[scandal 951]

Hey uscandual dude, I like you way of thinking, you actually use the gray matter

brother uscandual is the newest recruit of Commies for Christ. Also a n00b pwnage trainee and a FB BFF.

He also likes piña coladas and getting caught in the rain.

thanks guys! glad to be a chartered member of C for C

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Post with personal insult and posts quoting same removed. Personal attacks are against TOS - please remember this.

[msdelila 1]

The numbers were documented down to the last person. The Germans were known for their impeccable book keeping. They even documented the number of LICE on each prisoner. The books are in some museum. So there was definitely no exaggeration in the number of people killed. Let us be reminded that 6 million were Jews, but there were others killed....of those included handicapped people and children, homosexuals, blacks, political opposer's, as well as honest people who tried to help the Jews.

The Nazi's killed handicapped people and children! After a few years, they stopped because they were getting so much pressure from the Churches.

[scandal 951]

The numbers were documented down to the last person. The Germans were known for their impeccable book keeping. They even documented the number of LICE on each prisoner. The books are in some museum. So there was definitely no exaggeration in the number of people killed. Let us be reminded that 6 million were Jews, but there were others killed....of those included handicapped people and children, homosexuals, blacks, political opposer's, as well as honest people who tried to help the Jews.

The Nazi's killed handicapped people and children! After a few years, they stopped because they were getting so much pressure from the Churches.

Some museum -I presume you mean Yad Vashem in Jerusalem which has a centralized name registry.

"Documented down to the last person" - let's be realistic. The Holocaust happened during WWII. Not everyone who perished in the Holocaust died in the camps. Many, many died of starvation and disease in the Ghettos - Warsaw, Lublin, Cracow .... many died in "aktions" by the SS and their collaborators ... many died in mass shootings in the forests (Babi Yar being the best known incident). It's simply not possible to account for everyone who died and in what circumstance they died. We have very good, accurate estimates that put the number well north of 5 million, and in the vicinity of 5-6 million. I quoted this earlier in this thread, pulled from the Yad Vashem website:

They don't. That is the point Danno. This is documented, the numbers are documented. There is no room for speculation beyond whether it was X million and 55 or X million and 500. It was a holocaust and the numbers are millions that's all there is.

So if someone were to conclude that it were say 4 mil rather than 6 mil. would that person be a denier?

(personal aside: among the millions of pages in the Yad Vashem "Pages of Testimony" mentioned here are the pages for Elimelech Beck, his wife and their 7 children --- my great uncle and his family)

From the Yad Vashem FAQ

http://www1.yadvashem.org/Odot/prog/index_...le.asp?gate=5-3

How many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust? How do we know? Do we have their names?

There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.

The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two million Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony have been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims. This body of documentation has yet to be fully researched and added to our computerized database. Eventually we hope, through our computerization project, to provide as much information as possible about each victim.

[almaty 19]

even if only one was killed only in genocide is was still inhumane and a scar on history of the human race