Poll: 40% of Israeli Arabs believe Holocaust never happened

[scandal 951]

They don't. That is the point Danno. This is documented, the numbers are documented. There is no room for speculation beyond whether it was X million and 55 or X million and 500. It was a holocaust and the numbers are millions that's all there is.

So if someone were to conclude that it were say 4 mil rather than 6 mil. would that person be a denier?

(personal aside: among the millions of pages in the Yad Vashem "Pages of Testimony" mentioned here are the pages for Elimelech Beck, his wife and their 7 children --- my great uncle and his family)

From the Yad Vashem FAQ

http://www1.yadvashem.org/Odot/prog/index_...le.asp?gate=5-3

How many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust? How do we know? Do we have their names?

There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.

The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two million Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony have been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims. This body of documentation has yet to be fully researched and added to our computerized database. Eventually we hope, through our computerization project, to provide as much information as possible about each victim.

Edited May 19, 2009 by uscandual

[Peikko 1,575]

Danno, what are you talking about? Seriously, if you have a point to make, make it. If not, don't be crass. There are families of victims on these boards.

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, what are you talking about? Seriously, if you have a point to make, make it. If not, don't be crass. There are families of victims on these boards.

Actually I made my point in my first post, you were the one tripping over it, adding nothing to the conversation.

I have said nothing to disrespect anyone.

If the topic is to sensitive to be talked about maybe you should inquire into closing it down.

[Peikko 1,575]

It's not up to me to 'close' this thread, and even if it were, I would not. Your suggestion that people are labeled deniers for spurious reasons is just, well ridiculous. I have no idea what you think the point is of going on and on about the what if's of people who dispute the actual numbers beyond a reasonable estimate that it was between 4 and 6 million. Enlighten or move on. Simple as that.

[SirJon 0]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether it be a touchy subject like the Holocaust, whether Neil Armstrong walked on the moon or if Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy.

I've seen the evidence and spoke with survivors and liberators, so I know it to be true. It depends on those asked have in the way of similar evidence.

[almaty 19]

of course it is true....only racist...chopf##ks question it ....

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

modern day nazis are so whiny. why are you calling me a denier, waaaaaaaaaah.

hitler would not be proud.

[almaty 19]

modern day nazis are so whiny. why are you calling me a denier, waaaaaaaaaah.

hitler would not be proud.

modern day nazis......hide behind all symbols and righteous doctrine

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

modern day american neo nazis are pansy #### b1tchez.

[almaty 19]

ouch...david duke will pwned your non white azz for that comment

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Is that what you call it? Questioning a 'point in history'? Either it was a genocide and a holocaust, or it was not. The numbers matter.

Perhaps we are getting two story lines crossed here.

1. People denying the Holocaust took place as the OP reported.

2. Other people not part of the above story who question if death tolls were as high as first claimed, these people are not automatically "deniers" in my opinion if they have honest factual grounds to base their opinions.

Perhaps it would help if you indicated who exactly some of these people are and what their "honest factual grounds" for this opinion actually are.

From what I've seen - the folks that dispute the numbers (like President Ahmadinejad) don't have any evidence - they only say that "more research is needed" or something similar.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

ouch...david duke will pwned your non white azz for that comment

no he wont.. someone will call him a racist and he will start whining about the race card.

funny how its the racists who moan and b1tch abt the race card the most.

[Peikko 1,575]

You can think the moon is made of cheese in the privacy of your own home, what is disputed, and vigorously, are those who seek to marginalize and demonize using holocaust denial as the basis of their argument. Anti semetism is alive and well.

[almaty 19]

total agreement sister purple.......very much so

[SirJon 0]

You can think the moon is made of cheese in the privacy of your own home, what is disputed, and vigorously, are those who seek to marginalize and demonize using holocaust denial as the basis of their argument. Anti semetism is alive and well.

It is! I saw it on Wallace and Gromit.