I-864A Question - Me VS the Embassy

[ponyespresso 0]

Ok, this is an issue that is coming up from my wife's recent interview at the American Embassy regarding her visa application. Our whole story can be found here.

The short story is this. I'm a USC, I don't make enough to support my British wife to come live with me in the US.

I've asked my sister, whose income is WAY above the poverty line cutoff for a family of four, to fill out an I-864 and be my wife's sponsor.

My sister did so, she included her 2008 1040, and the past three years of her W2's, as proof that her income, and her income alone, is enough to sponsor my wife.

My wife had her interview this past Friday. The embassy looked at all her paperwork, said it all looked good, except that, since the 1040 she included was filed jointly, my sisters husband will need to fill out an I-864A as well.

However, for various personal reasons, I don't want to bother him about giving up his sensitive financial information. He's a USC, that's not the issue. That is has had a lot of personal financial trouble himself over these past few years, is the issue.

However, I don't think he needs to fill out an I-864A

Here is the link for the page about Affadavids of Support

http://tinyurl.com/28hlo8

Under the title of "How do I file an affidavit of support?" it says this:

"If you are using the income of other household members to qualify, then each household member who is accepting legal responsibility for supporting your relative must complete a separate USCIS Form I-864A, Contract Between Sponsor and Household Member."

My sister's husband is not accepting legal responsibility for supporting my wife. Only my sister is. And that's ok, because as her W2's show, her income alone is sufficient to qualify her alone to support my wife.

I-864A must be filed only by a household member if his/her income is used as support. My sister's husband doesn't need to fill out an I-864A because none of his income will be going to supporting my wife. Only my sisters income alone, which is sufficient.

Again, that is why we included her W2's only. Not his. How they filed their 1040, jointly or individually, is irrelevant, is it not?

Somehow, the embassy thinks that the income from the whole household is going to support my wife. It is not.

Seriously, I think this I-864A business is nonsense.

Again, this issue is: Is my sister's income, as proven by her W2's, sufficient for her and her alone to sponsor my wife? If it is (and, without getting specific, yes it is! And then some!), then how she filed is irrelevant. Jointly or singly, it doesn't matter because none of the other household income is going to my wife's support.

Or does it? Am I wrong here?

[potatoboss 0]

Ok, this is an issue that is coming up from my wife's recent interview at the American Embassy regarding her visa application. Our whole story can be found here.

The short story is this. I'm a USC, I don't make enough to support my British wife to come live with me in the US.

I've asked my sister, whose income is WAY above the poverty line cutoff for a family of four, to fill out an I-864 and be my wife's sponsor.

My sister did so, she included her 2008 1040, and the past three years of her W2's, as proof that her income, and her income alone, is enough to sponsor my wife.

My wife had her interview this past Friday. The embassy looked at all her paperwork, said it all looked good, except that, since the 1040 she included was filed jointly, my sisters husband will need to fill out an I-864A as well.

However, for various personal reasons, I don't want to bother him about giving up his sensitive financial information. He's a USC, that's not the issue. That is has had a lot of personal financial trouble himself over these past few years, is the issue.

However, I don't think he needs to fill out an I-864A

Here is the link for the page about Affadavids of Support

http://tinyurl.com/28hlo8

Under the title of "How do I file an affidavit of support?" it says this:

"If you are using the income of other household members to qualify, then each household member who is accepting legal responsibility for supporting your relative must complete a separate USCIS Form I-864A, Contract Between Sponsor and Household Member."

My sister's husband is not accepting legal responsibility for supporting my wife. Only my sister is. And that's ok, because as her W2's show, her income alone is sufficient to qualify her alone to support my wife.

I-864A must be filed only by a household member if his/her income is used as support. My sister's husband doesn't need to fill out an I-864A because none of his income will be going to supporting my wife. Only my sisters income alone, which is sufficient.

Again, that is why we included her W2's only. Not his. How they filed their 1040, jointly or individually, is irrelevant, is it not?

Somehow, the embassy thinks that the income from the whole household is going to support my wife. It is not.

Seriously, I think this I-864A business is nonsense.

Again, this issue is: Is my sister's income, as proven by her W2's, sufficient for her and her alone to sponsor my wife? If it is (and, without getting specific, yes it is! And then some!), then how she filed is irrelevant. Jointly or singly, it doesn't matter because none of the other household income is going to my wife's support.

Or does it? Am I wrong here?

Warning: I am no expert, and I have a lot of uncertainties about the I-864/A myself, but here is what I understand:

If your sister and her husband filed their 1040 jointly, then one of them must file a 1-864 and the other must fill out the 1-864A. This is so that it is clear how much each person contributes to the income reported on the 1040. It doesn't matter that one person's income is enough to meet the requirements, it's just that they want to know where all the money on the 1040 is coming from.

I am filing at the Embassy at Tokyo, and originally I was only going to have my mother submit the I-864 as a sponsor, but the official told me that since my mother filed the 1040 jointly with my father, my father will also have to submit the 1-864A for the reason above.

[payxibka 10,045]

Warning: I am no expert, and I have a lot of uncertainties about the I-864/A myself, but here is what I understand:

If your sister and her husband filed their 1040 jointly, then one of them must file a 1-864 and the other must fill out the 1-864A. This is so that it is clear how much each person contributes to the income reported on the 1040. It doesn't matter that one person's income is enough to meet the requirements, it's just that they want to know where all the money on the 1040 is coming from.

I am filing at the Embassy at Tokyo, and originally I was only going to have my mother submit the I-864 as a sponsor, but the official told me that since my mother filed the 1040 jointly with my father, my father will also have to submit the 1-864A for the reason above.

Personally I do not think there is any basis for the position that the joint filer MUST prepare the I-844A. The I-864A is a consent to use income to support a sponsored immigrant ONLY if the sponsor's income is not sufficient. It is not a way of identifying who contributes what to the family.

[trailmix 77]

You are right - whether that will get you anywhere with the embassy is another thing. The same request was made of a VJ member's Husband at his interview in March at the Montreal consulate (Shiri)

Same scenario, only using one joint sponsor with proof of individual income and a joint return. They asked that he have the other person fill out an I-864A - which they did. It's discouraging for people when they make up their own rules, Shiri's thread is here: Denied -lacking I864A for joint sponsor's spouse

Adjudicator's Field Manual - Redacted Public Version \ Chapter 20 Immigrants in General \ Enforceable Affidavits of Support.[Revised as of 06/27/2006].

If a sponsor filed a joint tax return with a spouse, but is qualifying using only his/her own individual income, the sponsor must submit evidence of that individual income. This evidence would include, for example, the sponsor’s own W-2(s), Wage and Tax Statement, and if necessary to reach the income requirement, evidence of other income reported to IRS which can be attributed to him/her, usually on Forms 1099.

Edited May 19, 2009 by trailmix

[txladykat 1]

Actually, I raised this very question during my filing appointment in Denmark. They gave a preliminary review of my AOS. My mother is filing an 864, and we didn't use my father (joint taxes) to qualify. She confirmed he did not need to file an 864 and suggested that in the blocks asking about the tax return to put their joint amount first, then a slash, then her income (il.e. 100,000/50,000 - 100,000 being joint income and 50,000 being her individual income) with a written explanation to the side that the first is their joint income and the second is her income, the only income to be considered.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Your correct in your reading of the instructions, but as Trailmix has pointed out, embassies are free to "interpret" the rules to what they want.

In a way, I can see why they would ask for it for a "joint filing", because they are thinking "joint" = 2 affidavits. (guess they didn't read the rule book)

[trailmix 77]

Actually, I raised this very question during my filing appointment in Denmark. They gave a preliminary review of my AOS. My mother is filing an 864, and we didn't use my father (joint taxes) to qualify. She confirmed he did not need to file an 864 and suggested that in the blocks asking about the tax return to put their joint amount first, then a slash, then her income (il.e. 100,000/50,000 - 100,000 being joint income and 50,000 being her individual income) with a written explanation to the side that the first is their joint income and the second is her income, the only income to be considered.

This kind of brings up another question. OP when your Sister filled out the I-864 - when stating 'income' for the previous 3 tax years, did she enter only her income, or did she state the 'joint' income of her and her Husband?

[motu 6]

There is a problem in doing what you are doing that I can see - it's this - My fictitious sponsor makes 100,00 a year but his spouse doesn't make anything - then his income needs to support both of them plus their family etc. - add to this the fact that the spouse may have losses from his/her business that will actually reduce the amount of $$$$ available for sponsoring an outsider! Which may in fact reduce the total income available - to under the minimum required - so I understand the 'potential' problem with what you are doing.

However, you tried, it didn't work - so - Get another sponsor who doesn't have a problem with sharing his financial information - most of us are baring everything for this process and I feel it's a crock to say I do not want to divulge this info, at least that's my take - if he doesn't want to help you in the sponsorship say so and let you find another co-sponsor. (who is this? And what is he afraid of - going to prison? Is he Mr. Madoff?) Good Luck

[trailmix 77]

There is a problem in doing what you are doing that I can see - it's this - My fictitious sponsor makes 100,00 a year but his spouse doesn't make anything - then his income needs to support both of them plus their family etc. - add to this the fact that the spouse may have losses from his/her business that will actually reduce the amount of $$$$ available for sponsoring an outsider! Which may in fact reduce the total income available - to under the minimum required - so I understand the 'potential' problem with what you are doing.

However, you tried, it didn't work - so - Get another sponsor who doesn't have a problem with sharing his financial information - most of us are baring everything for this process and I feel it's a crock to say I do not want to divulge this info, at least that's my take - if he doesn't want to help you in the sponsorship say so and let you find another co-sponsor. (who is this? And what is he afraid of - going to prison? Is he Mr. Madoff?) Good Luck

What you have just posted does not apply to what the original poster said at all. I'm not sure if you misunderstood him or you just didn't read it?

[ponyespresso 0]

This kind of brings up another question. OP when your Sister filled out the I-864 - when stating 'income' for the previous 3 tax years, did she enter only her income, or did she state the 'joint' income of her and her Husband?

Great question, I'll have to double check my copies of the paperwork.

[ponyespresso 0]

There is a problem in doing what you are doing that I can see - it's this - My fictitious sponsor makes 100,00 a year but his spouse doesn't make anything - then his income needs to support both of them plus their family etc. - add to this the fact that the spouse may have losses from his/her business that will actually reduce the amount of $$$$ available for sponsoring an outsider! Which may in fact reduce the total income available - to under the minimum required - so I understand the 'potential' problem with what you are doing.

However, you tried, it didn't work - so - Get another sponsor who doesn't have a problem with sharing his financial information - most of us are baring everything for this process and I feel it's a crock to say I do not want to divulge this info, at least that's my take - if he doesn't want to help you in the sponsorship say so and let you find another co-sponsor. (who is this? And what is he afraid of - going to prison? Is he Mr. Madoff?) Good Luck

What is the world are you talking about?

This has nothing to do with people being afraid to divulge information, it has everything to do with sensitive family politics and trying to do what's best for my wife.

I would suggest you go back and read my original posts, then contribute something that is in some way connected to the reality of my situation.

Regards.

[trailmix 77]

This kind of brings up another question. OP when your Sister filled out the I-864 - when stating 'income' for the previous 3 tax years, did she enter only her income, or did she state the 'joint' income of her and her Husband?

Great question, I'll have to double check my copies of the paperwork.

I asked Shiri this question and she wrote back to tell me no, they only included the income of the joint sponsor on the I-864, not the joint tax information.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Interesting. My mother put the total adjusted gross income on the line (was it line 22?) and then attached the W2s to show what portion was hers. She also had a letter from her current employer stating how much she makes a year. She also provided three years' of 1040s (plus W2s and 1099s) instead of just one. I wonder if this is why ours turned out okay and Shiri's didn't?

[trailmix 77]

Interesting. My mother put the total adjusted gross income on the line (was it line 22?) and then attached the W2s to show what portion was hers. She also had a letter from her current employer stating how much she makes a year. She also provided three years' of 1040s (plus W2s and 1099s) instead of just one. I wonder if this is why ours turned out okay and Shiri's didn't?

My best guess would be that the COs these people are encountering just don't understand the guidelines perhaps?

Edited May 22, 2009 by trailmix

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

My best guess would be that the COs these people are encountering just don't understand the guidelines perhaps?

That was my first reaction -- I think I used the phrase "pulling numbers out of their arses".