Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich (Texas has it right)

[mawilson 2,133]

Seems to me that of all the government run programs, Social Security and Medicare are two that seem to run pretty well.

Only if you disregard the fact that both programs are bankrupt (or running on borrowed time.)

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Well to be honest Barza Woman, I consider myself very lucky and so should you that we can get the health cover through our jobs. We are lucky that we have certain careers that allows us the complete coverage. However I'd like to see what's best not just for me but for every single person, I like to look at the bigger picture, whereas it seems to me you belong in the ME culture rather than the WE culture.

Universal health coverage ensures everyone in the country has a means/way of getting access to basic health care, why shouldn't a westernised, democratic, developed nation expect that? 100% of the population in France, Canada and Britain has that....in the USA that figure is at most 85% and could be much lower because those who do have insurance could be constraint by pre existing conditions, deductibles etc etc.

I hope for the sake of the USA, the health care reform plan currently ongoing puts the people before profit, I hope they come up with a plan that ensures every American is covered to basic health care whether that includes a plan integrated within the insurance companies so be it. Not one person should be discriminated against because they had an illness in the past.

Anyway, what is the latest news/plan on Health Care Reform?

[AlHayatZween 2]

The rationing prospect seems to be in the mix right now. Americans have bought the arguement that even if they cannot afford a proceedure, it is comforting to know it is available if they could afford it. You will hear story after story of proceedures denied in Canada as not necessary, deemed life saving, one the patient crosses into the US. There are stories that above a certain age in Britain, life extending and quality of life proceedures, commonly paid for by medicare, are not even available to the elderly.

Those are the stories. I would be interested in that discussion, and cites either way. I will post this one, that has stirred considerable discussion in healthcare circles.

Yeah... this isn't comforting... It makes me really angry...

Also, rationing is definitely an issue that needs to be resolved! But don't think it isn't already happening to some extent... i have a family member right now who needs an MRI, the doctor said she needs it, she's been in pain for months... but the insurance company says she doesn't need it. They won't cover it. And this is a legit insurance company... not some E-Insurance scam....

And even if she wanted to pay for the MRI herself, try calling up and asking how much an MRI for X costs? They can't even give you a straight answer over the phone.

[mawilson 2,133]

The Europeans don't do it cheaper and better?

I wonder why they're all so happy about their system.

Europeans are happy about a lot of things Americans wouldn't be.

Like $8 gasoline.

Or cars so small most Americans wouldn't be caught dead driving them.

Or having to pay for plastic bags in grocery stores.

Or air conditioning being "optional".

Or that there's no such thing as a non-recourse loan - you can't walk away from your

mortgage even if you owe the bank more money than your house is worth.

Or that mortgage interest is non-deductible in most countries

I can go on and on and on.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Since you don't like our current President and his policies, you should move out of the country, fool!

Couldn't have said it better.

[AlHayatZween 2]

The Europeans don't do it cheaper and better?

I wonder why they're all so happy about their system.

Europeans are happy about a lot of things Americans wouldn't be.

1 ) Like $8 gasoline.

2 )Or cars so small most Americans wouldn't be caught dead driving them.

3 )Or having to pay for plastic bags in grocery stores.

4 ) Or air conditioning being "optional".

5 ) Or that there's no such thing as a non-recourse loan - you can't walk away from your

mortgage even if you owe the bank more money than your house is worth.

6 ) Or that mortgage interest is non-deductible in most countries

I can go on and on and on.

MaWilson! Numbers 2, 3, and 4 are not legitimate complaints...

People are going to mistaken you for a softie, high-maintenance American if you go on like that!

[Heracles 417]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Since you don't like our current President and his policies, you should move out of the country, fool!

Couldn't have said it better.

Likewise, you should have moved under the eight years of Bush instead of trashing him on a daily basis, like a spoiled child, simply because he did not agree with you.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think you have to like the government of a place in order to live there. It's pretty irrelevant to me actually.

[Heracles 417]

The problem with the system is states rights. In most other 1st world countries we have one universal (federal) tax. Therefore, we don't have an issue with tax-havens or any other pro-rich shenanigans. Allowing each state to do as they please is probably the most moronic, inefficient form of government there is. While it worked in the 18 century, it fails the country miserably in this day an age. For example, being able to buy things out of state and paying no tax.

There are lots of examples of federal systems working whereas excluding the US, how many other state rights equivalent countries are there that are also sucessful. The statistics all show that when it comes to federalism vs states rights, in terms of living standards and quality of life, Federalism wins by a long shot.

I don't think you have to like the government of a place in order to live there. It's pretty irrelevant to me actually.

Why am I not surprised.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Constellation

[mawilson 2,133]

The problem with the system is states rights. In most other 1st world countries we have one universal (federal) tax. Therefore, we don't have an issue with tax-havens or any other pro-rich shenanigans. Allowing each state to do as they please is probably the most moronic, inefficient form of government there is. While it worked in the 18 century, it fails the country miserably in this day an age. For example, being able to buy things out of state and paying no tax.

Allowing each state to do as they please is the reason this country is called the United STATES of America

and not the United "State" of America.

[Heracles 417]

Furthermore, we technically pay less tax in Australia. All while receiving more value for money out of our government.

So of course since when considering how inefficient the United States government is, certain people question it. Whereas countries like Australia, Denmark, Canada and Sinagpore show that having the report people in government makes the difference. Much in the same way that poor management leads to a companies failure.

Compare an average street in Melbourne to any average street in a US city or town and you will see the difference.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Perhaps you should become a travel agent BY.

[mawilson 2,133]

Furthermore, we technically pay less tax in Australia. All while receiving more value for money out of our government.

Well DUH. You don't have to spend one trillion dollars a year to maintain an overseas empire.

The military budget alone is $600 billion dollars and change.

[Heracles 417]

Allowing each state to do as they please is the reason this country is called the United STATES of America

and not the United "State" of America.

That is the failure though. That is why you have few who are rich while a hell of a lot of people who are dirt poor. That model doesn't work anymore and is extremely inefficient. Same goes with the fact that excluding the United States, most countries who have implemented the presidential system have ended up in failure, with corruption and a collapse of government. Whereas there are a hell of a lot of countries using the British parliamentary system and still using it with great success.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Furthermore, we technically pay less tax in Australia. All while receiving more value for money out of our government.

Well DUH. You don't have to spend one trillion dollars a year to maintain an overseas empire.

The military budget alone is $600 billion dollars and change.

Maybe it would help if the USA didn't start a war in Iraq to help a certain private corporation make millions of dollars.......you would think the money could have been better spent somewhere else like say on giving its own people a better standard of living?