Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich (Texas has it right)

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I guess we cant have fun anymore?

Life is getting too serial.

Yeah, they were forced to read it!

[Peikko 1,575]

Cut the ####### Bill. Most people get any and every required procedure in Universal Health care systems, emergency or not. Yes, you might have to wait a while for non urgent care (in most cases weeks/months NOT years) and if you don't want to wait, you can always use a private agency to 'speed things up'. The Middle classes are extremely well served, they get the care at a cost they can afford and they utilize preventive medicine at every opportunity.

Most middle class people in the US can't afford to pay for even routine procedures so they simply opt not to have them, resulting in more costly illness and treatment in the long term on many occasions. This is no way to run health care.

This fear mongering is bogus and quite frankly an affront to those who bear the brunt of the mess the US system is in today.

#######, or not, that is what the fear is. I just saw one case last night on the news, where what was a routine heart proceedure in the US, was being treated with drugs in Canada. The patient would have to wait 2-1/2 years for the proceedure there while his condition deteriorated. He came to the US, was examined, and immediately treated.

It's hard to build a true picture from an individual case. I know from experience that being sick wasn't something I ever thought about in the UK (I am not a sickly individual) if I got sick, I went to the Dr or on a couple of occasions ER, got cared for and sent home. I didn't worry about bills or whether I could or could not afford this or that. Here, I can't get anyone to tell me how much anything will cost, but they keep wanting to do tests and exams even though I feel fine. I don't go because I feel fine and I can't get an answer. What kind of system is that?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I guess we cant have fun anymore?

I guess not. I think Obama took over VJ. No more freedom.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Cut the ####### Bill. Most people get any and every required procedure in Universal Health care systems, emergency or not. Yes, you might have to wait a while for non urgent care (in most cases weeks/months NOT years) and if you don't want to wait, you can always use a private agency to 'speed things up'. The Middle classes are extremely well served, they get the care at a cost they can afford and they utilize preventive medicine at every opportunity.

Most middle class people in the US can't afford to pay for even routine procedures so they simply opt not to have them, resulting in more costly illness and treatment in the long term on many occasions. This is no way to run health care.

This fear mongering is bogus and quite frankly an affront to those who bear the brunt of the mess the US system is in today.

#######, or not, that is what the fear is. I just saw one case last night on the news, where what was a routine heart proceedure in the US, was being treated with drugs in Canada. The patient would have to wait 2-1/2 years for the proceedure there while his condition deteriorated. He came to the US, was examined, and immediately treated.

It's hard to build a true picture from an individual case. I know from experience that being sick wasn't something I ever thought about in the UK (I am not a sickly individual) if I got sick, I went to the Dr or on a couple of occasions ER, got cared for and sent home. I didn't worry about bills or whether I could or could not afford this or that. Here, I can't get anyone to tell me how much anything will cost, but they keep wanting to do tests and exams even though I feel fine. I don't go because I feel fine and I can't get an answer. What kind of system is that?

Malpractice defense, thats what kind.

[Ban Hammer 13,150]

Ironically, the only people who have an explicit and expressed right to health care (often over the top care) are the emprisoned [ESTELLE v. GAMBLE, 429, U.S. 97, 1976]

Imagine that.

nothing is stopping you from being a convicted felon, steven.

You haven't made a sustainable case for health care being a right except that you wish it to be so. That is you arguing for the sake of arguing. What is your support for that position?

Because I have a heart.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

[quote name='Col. 'Bat' Guano' post='2947686' date='May 20 2009, 08:04 PM'

Because I have a heart.

Yeah, that HEART of yours loves spending other ppl's money heh! How much have you gave to charity lately?

[yogib37 3]

But if you move to Texas to avoid paying taxes in California you have to live in Texas...

The only problem there is that there is a lot more than just taxes to be avoided in CA.

What? Mild weather? Beautiful beaches full of hot women? Disneyland?

OH I cant belive I will defend TX but Texas has a lot of hot women there.

I lived in Texas for 3 years or I like to call it, Misplaced in texas.

Living in Texas is not all that bad. Houses are a lot cheaper then Calif. or Jersey,

there is some good places in Texas to live like Austin, San Antonio. etc..

[Ban Hammer 13,150]

But if you move to Texas to avoid paying taxes in California you have to live in Texas...

The only problem there is that there is a lot more than just taxes to be avoided in CA.

What? Mild weather? Beautiful beaches full of hot women? Disneyland?

OH I cant belive I will defend TX but Texas has a lot of hot women there.

I lived in Texas for 3 years or I like to call it, Misplaced in texas.

Living in Texas is not all that bad. Houses are a lot cheaper then Calif. or Jersey,

there is some good places in Texas to live like Austin, San Antonio. etc..

[rebeccajo 14]

Seems to me that of all the government run programs, Social Security and Medicare are two that seem to run pretty well.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Cut the ####### Bill. Most people get any and every required procedure in Universal Health care systems, emergency or not. Yes, you might have to wait a while for non urgent care (in most cases weeks/months NOT years) and if you don't want to wait, you can always use a private agency to 'speed things up'. The Middle classes are extremely well served, they get the care at a cost they can afford and they utilize preventive medicine at every opportunity.

Most middle class people in the US can't afford to pay for even routine procedures so they simply opt not to have them, resulting in more costly illness and treatment in the long term on many occasions. This is no way to run health care.

This fear mongering is bogus and quite frankly an affront to those who bear the brunt of the mess the US system is in today.

#######, or not, that is what the fear is. I just saw one case last night on the news, where what was a routine heart proceedure in the US, was being treated with drugs in Canada. The patient would have to wait 2-1/2 years for the proceedure there while his condition deteriorated. He came to the US, was examined, and immediately treated.

See it's ####### like this that people are fed with in believing that Universal Health Care cannot work, it does work, when I talk about BASIC care I mean, a person can go to a local doctor for an ailment (could be a cough, chest infection, flu, migraine, inflammation of muscles, constipation, back pain etc) is diagnosed, given their medicine that will remedy the problem and voilà its sorted. Here we are talking about what only the MAJORITY of the people need and in the USA people aren't given access to this care (because if they aren't insured, they are charged $100 just to see the doctor, then extra money is piled on top from being diagnosed and medicines given, so the bill is so high they just can't afford it)....so they put it off and that minor ailment develops into something much worse OR they go to the ER take the $500 blow and will probably never end up paying it back.

When you have scaremongers going on about universal health care, they are looking at things which only a MINORITY of people will ever need in their lives. Such as surgery or specialised medicine procedures. Yes the NHS does struggle in this area but people in France/Britain if they aren't happy with it when it comes to this (waiting 6months or something) can always through choice opt to go private. (Whether it is in Britain/France or the USA)

The point is I bet the majority of people in France/Britain are far happier with their lives/health than people are in the USA. Its ridiculous to think that there are people out there now in the USA who know they are one illness away from losing everything they have worked hard for in their lives. However this isn't surprising when compared to other universal health care system the USA wastes so much more money in providing health care per captia. That because a good chunk of that money doesn't go into the system, it goes into the coffers of the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.....cost of medicines in the USA is just ridiculous....and no money going into R&D isn't the reason it isn't that high...many European countries have their own R&D facilities.

Edited May 21, 2009 by JimandChristy

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Barza Woman

[Peikko 1,575]

VW, do you even use health insurance, or do you just pay as you go? Anyone who does use insurance wants the best $ value. What we have now just isn't it. If you pay as you go, I can see why you have no interest in the outcome.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Cause it's soooooooo awful to try to emulate the positive and good ideas that other countries have. Damn furriners

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Those of you who love the health systems in Europe and Canada should go live there instead of insisting that we change our way here. They've already got what you want. Let them share it with you. That's easier than trying to convince us to agree with you.

Which isn't a lot different from saying that "those of you who want the President to fail should move out of the country". And equally idiotic.

Round and round we go - on the rollercoaster of VWs imagination.

[Peikko 1,575]

To be fair, there's a stuck out tongue in the post. One has to take it with a pinch of salt - or three.

I am curious as to why anyone who is using the insurance system we have now isn't interested in getting better value for money when it can be clearly demonstrated that it can be done better and cheaper than it is now. I thought it was good in a capitalist society to demand value for money?