More Americans are Pro-life than Pro-choice.

[jundp 191]

Great response. If only all discussions of this emotional topic in our society could be so rational and courteous.

I think the vast majority of people, like you - whether they are prochoice or prolife - believe that abortion should never be a substitute for birth control and family planning. Any unwanted pregnancy is regrettable, and preventing unwanted and unplanned pregnancies is always preferable to terminating them.

That's one thing that I simply fail to understand: the most strident anti-abortionists, particularly in the Catholic Church, also take the toughest stance against family planning and condom use. It's baffling to me. Condom usage not only prevents unwanted pregnancies, and thus also reduces the need for abortions, but also is vital in the fight against HIV/AIDS and other STDs in Africa and the Third World (as well as here at home, of course) where these diseases are killing more than all the wars put together. How the Church, in the name of sanctity of life, can still in this day and age counsel against condom distribution is unfathomable to me.

Well, it helps that I teach at a Catholic school I have to be rational and courteous in my responses, though usually I don't share my personal beliefs with my seniors.

I think more and more 'young Catholics' (as I like to think of myself as being) do believe family planning and birth control are necessary in this day and age. Not just to prevent disease, because many of us still believe that waiting till marriage is a good thing, but also because of responsible parenting. I was lucky to have had a family and friends who were kind and supportive when I got pregnant at a young age, but surely it is better to wait until you are financially and emotionally secure before having children. Add to that over-population...

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

edit: because I can't spell

Edited May 17, 2009 by jundp

[scandal 951]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

Word.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

[jundp 191]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life. And the death penalty is not a deterrent and it isn't cheaper than life in prison. It's also not fool-proof that the person being executed is the one who committed the crime. Additionally, there are too many people whose convictions have been over-turned and proven to be innocent.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life. And the death penalty is not a deterrent and it isn't cheaper than life in prison. It's also not fool-proof that the person being executed is the one who committed the crime. Additionally, there are too many people whose convictions have been over-turned and proven to be innocent.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

Edited May 17, 2009 by charles!

[scandal 951]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life. And the death penalty is not a deterrent and it isn't cheaper than life in prison. It's also not fool-proof that the person being executed is the one who committed the crime. Additionally, there are too many people whose convictions have been over-turned and proven to be innocent.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

On the one hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

On the other hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

Um. ??

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life. And the death penalty is not a deterrent and it isn't cheaper than life in prison. It's also not fool-proof that the person being executed is the one who committed the crime. Additionally, there are too many people whose convictions have been over-turned and proven to be innocent.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

On the one hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

On the other hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

Um. ??

read again to get what i'm saying. the only crime the baby could be accused of is being conceived.

[scandal 951]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life. And the death penalty is not a deterrent and it isn't cheaper than life in prison. It's also not fool-proof that the person being executed is the one who committed the crime. Additionally, there are too many people whose convictions have been over-turned and proven to be innocent.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

On the one hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

On the other hand - human being, made in God's image (if you believe in God). Check.

Um. ??

read again to get what i'm saying. the only crime the baby could be accused of is being conceived.

Ok - so in your view taking a life is acceptable if the one whose life is being taken has committed a crime heinous enough to warrant it, by someone's standard of heinous. In other words, you don't take the position that ALL life is sacred - some lives are not sacred. That's consistent, and a reasonable point of view.

The issue that I think jundp raises (and I agree with her) is the hypocrisy in the position of those who adamantly claim on religious grounds that ALL life is sacred, ALL life is made in God's image, ALL are children of God. Except, of course, for those not so sacred who must have been on God's discard heap so it's ok to kill THOSE.

Look, I'm not going to come off high and mighty here. These are thorny, emotional, personal issues. Most of us feel uncomfortable about the gray areas. Do I categorically oppose capital punishment in all cases? No, I don't. I think the Nuremberg trials correctly sentenced to death some monsters that should not have been allowed to draw any further breath. And I shed no tears for Saddam when he dangled at the end of a noose. For that matter, if we could put a laser guided smart bomb on Osama right now, I'd be happy to personally push the red button. I'm a leftie but I'm not a wimp (at least I don't think so...).

I do think that the death penalty as imposed in this country if very problematic. Many innocents have been put to death on faulty evidence, unprepared and incompetent public defenders, and frame ups by police and DAs. I also think that from a cost perspective it makes no sense. Feeding and caring for death row inmates in most states that have them costs more to the state than keeping them as lifers in genpop.

As to abortion, I'm glad that I've never personally been in a situation where that decision needed making. I hope that I never face it. I do believe that it should be an option up until the point where a fetus is viable. Certainly a zygote of undistinguished cells that have not yet begun specializing - I have a hard time thinking of that as a human being. A clump of cells that could as easily have been grown in a petrie dish as in a uterus is just not a person. That is my view. I respect the fact that others have very different views.

Respect.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

Ok - so in your view taking a life is acceptable if the one whose life is being taken has committed a crime heinous enough to warrant it, by someone's standard of heinous. In other words, you don't take the position that ALL life is sacred - some lives are not sacred. That's consistent, and a reasonable point of view.

exactly. murderers, child molesters.....there's nothing wrong with a little shooting, as long as the right people get shot.

The issue that I think jundp raises (and I agree with her) is the hypocrisy in the position of those who adamantly claim on religious grounds that ALL life is sacred, ALL life is made in God's image, ALL are children of God. Except, of course, for those not so sacred who must have been on God's discard heap so it's ok to kill THOSE.

Look, I'm not going to come off high and mighty here. These are thorny, emotional, personal issues. Most of us feel uncomfortable about the gray areas. Do I categorically oppose capital punishment in all cases? No, I don't. I think the Nuremberg trials correctly sentenced to death some monsters that should not have been allowed to draw any further breath. And I shed no tears for Saddam when he dangled at the end of a noose. For that matter, if we could put a laser guided smart bomb on Osama right now, I'd be happy to personally push the red button. I'm a leftie but I'm not a wimp (at least I don't think so...).

I do think that the death penalty as imposed in this country if very problematic. Many innocents have been put to death on faulty evidence, unprepared and incompetent public defenders, and frame ups by police and DAs. I also think that from a cost perspective it makes no sense. Feeding and caring for death row inmates in most states that have them costs more to the state than keeping them as lifers in genpop.

As to abortion, I'm glad that I've never personally been in a situation where that decision needed making. I hope that I never face it. I do believe that it should be an option up until the point where a fetus is viable. Certainly a zygote of undistinguished cells that have not yet begun specializing - I have a hard time thinking of that as a human being. A clump of cells that could as easily have been grown in a petrie dish as in a uterus is just not a person. That is my view. I respect the fact that others have very different views.

Respect.

agreed about that above in bold. however, if the dna evidence points at them, then fire up sparky.

[MrsCat 6]

Here's my stance. No one's personal religious beliefs should dictate the choices and options for others. If someone doesn't believe in abortion then they shouldn't have one. If someone considers it a form of BC, by all means have at 'er. Because in the end, the only one who has to live with the consequences is the person making the decision.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

Here's my stance. No one's personal religious beliefs should dictate the choices and options for others. If someone doesn't believe in abortion then they shouldn't have one. If someone considers it a form of BC, by all means have at 'er. Because in the end, the only one who has to live with the consequences is the person making the decision.

not entirely accurate........the unborn has to live with it, albeit for a short while.

[MrsCat 6]

Here's my stance. No one's personal religious beliefs should dictate the choices and options for others. If someone doesn't believe in abortion then they shouldn't have one. If someone considers it a form of BC, by all means have at 'er. Because in the end, the only one who has to live with the consequences is the person making the decision.

not entirely accurate........the unborn has to live with it, albeit for a short while.

To some. . . . .

[Nessa 23]

What I don't understand is strident pro-lifers who think the death penalty is ok, especially when they use religion as their reason. Life is life. It is not ours to take through abortion, murder, or government-sanctioned murder (i.e. death penalty) so if one is pro-life, then one should be pro-all-life, not just pro-life-when-it's-convenient-for-me.

surely you're not going to try to draw a parallel between a murderer to an unborn baby.

Yes. I am. Because I believe life is life.

i agree with the parts in bold.

Suppose that baby grows up to be a murderer? Or gay (sorry, had to)

i was thinking the exact same answer after i read charles' answer lol, except the gay part, u homophobe

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

you obviously didnt understand what she was saying. if someone thinks unborn babies shouldn't be killed for a religious reason, thst reason is because commiting murder is a sin, or something similar. therefore, they should not think it's ok to take anyone elses life, not just of an unborn baby.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

a major stretch of the imagination there. on one hand there's someone who by their own free will committed a crime, was convicted of it, and sentenced by society to death. on the other hand........

nope, still not seeing the similarities.

you obviously didnt understand what she was saying. if someone thinks unborn babies shouldn't be killed for a religious reason, thst reason is because commiting murder is a sin, or something similar. therefore, they should not think it's ok to take anyone elses life, not just of an unborn baby.

you know i'm not overly religious, so religion does not enter the equation when i'm taking a stance on this.

[endoftheroad 1]

"all of the increase in pro-life sentiment is seen among self-identified conservatives and moderates; the abortion views of political liberals have not changed."

end of story