Driving in California - A warning to all you non-resident newlyweds.

[bobzurunkel 1]

UPDATE:

Well, went to court today for the arraignment... and yes, it was an actual judge/courtroom in los angeles superior court... Waited in court for 3.5 hours, judge took a recess and the prosecutor called me up to talk to him about the case. He asked if I was able to get my license yet since the citation, I told him nope as the DMV wouldn't process the application as I had no legal presence document. He said ok, bundled my two charges together and offered to knock the misdemeanor 12500a down to an infraction and pay $1000 fine for both charges if I plead guilty to failing to yield to the pedestrian at a crosswalk (infraction) and driving w/o a CA license (infraction).

I explained to him that I was hoping to have the 12500a charge dismissed entirely and told him that I'm in the country visiting on a non-immigrant K1 fiance visa and I'm not a California or a US resident. He said the K1 visa, the subsequent marriage to a California citizen and staying at her house demonstrates enough intent to him to successfully try me and that if I didn't accept his offer, he would push for the maximum sentence if he were to win at trial later. Maximum is 6 months in jail and/or $1000 fine. I doubt the judge would ever give me that sentence, but I didn't feel like pressing my luck, as well, the trial by declaration option does NOT exist for a misdemeanor charge.

I felt he was railroading me a bit and I quickly argued that he was wrong, that the K1 visa is a NON-immigrant visa and only grants me the right solely to enter the US and to marry my fiancee and does not grant me privilege to stay here; that my stay here can only be extended via an I-485 AOS adjustment that came 5 days AFTER the citation; that my true, fixed and permanent home was in Canada. I also showed him the what the DMV rules were for determining residency, as well as the 12505 rules, and as mentioned here in the forum by a few users, the prosecutor said the law is written vaguely enough for him to prove the intent for his case.

He told me the I-485 application itself, even if I filed 5 days after the citation, proves intent, even if I'm seeking US residency, not necessarily California residency. He again reminded me that if I choose to fight it, he'd seek the maximum penalty... I looked at my wife, she nodded, and I said I'd take the deal, he smiled and I sat down again.

The judge soon returned from recess, called me up in front of him, read the charges, I plead guilty and I asked for six months to pay the $1000, which was granted as well as traffic school for the 21950a failing to yield charge.

I'm happy that I won't have a criminal record now for this, which was my ultimate concern here, but I still find it quite ridiculous to get a $1000 fine for being a CA resident w/o a CA license when the CA DMV will not issue me a license in the first place because I'm not a US resident. Even more ridiculous was the 3 hour parade of people called before me getting off with significantly lighter fines for convictions such as domestic abuse, disobeying restraining orders, marijuana possession, failing to appear, etc.

To top it all off, we arrived back home to find an RFE in the mailbox from USCIS for my wife not having her 2007 and 2008 taxes done to include with her I-864. Yay.

I guess the moral of the story is this:

Until you have your California license in hand, (which you won't really be able to get until you at least get your EAD or your I-485 797C approval NOA) don't tell the cop you've been in the state for more than 10 days, and don't tell him you're living with your new spouse in the USA. in other words, as recommended by others here, lie your #### off!

God Bless America, but what a friggin' joke.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for your support and advice here, it was greatly appreciated.

[TinTin and Samby 11]

Agamoto,

Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for taking the time to update us on the outcome. I'm sorry you had to go through this #######. I'm glad you acheived your 1 goal of getting all charges reduced to infractions, so that you do not have any (crazy) criminal record hanging over you.

As you saw from your dealing with the prosecutor, they are paid to get GUILTY pleas....its pretty much a stacked deck against anyone trying to represent themselves. The FACTS rarely matter, as you found out, he/she just strong-armed you into the only option he was willing to consider. The system stinks. One really needs an attorney to act on your behalf during these conversations with the prosecutor, as he is the only one that will have any perceived "standing" in the conversation with the prosecutor.

$1000 is a tough fine, but, as you stated, infinately beter than a record. COngrats on that. and Keep the faith!

Warm Regards,

Samby

Edited July 6, 2009 by TinTin and Samby

[Kar98 0]

UPDATE:

I guess the moral of the story is this:

Until you have your California license in hand, (which you won't really be able to get until you at least get your EAD or your I-485 797C approval NOA) don't tell the cop you've been in the state for more than 10 days, and don't tell him you're living with your new spouse in the USA. in other words, as recommended by others here, lie your #### off!

I presented the officer with my Canadian license, valid until 2013. He then asked me where I was living and I gave him my address in Burbank.

Wrong answer. Should have given him your address in Canadaville, Canada.

That would be lying though.

Not if you're saying "I'm from Canada, and my address there is 1234 N Canada Drive, Canadaville, Canada."

Told ya so.

[SimoFati 0]

UPDATE:

Well, went to court today for the arraignment... and yes, it was an actual judge/courtroom in los angeles superior court... Waited in court for 3.5 hours, judge took a recess and the prosecutor called me up to talk to him about the case. He asked if I was able to get my license yet since the citation, I told him nope as the DMV wouldn't process the application as I had no legal presence document. He said ok, bundled my two charges together and offered to knock the misdemeanor 12500a down to an infraction and pay $1000 fine for both charges if I plead guilty to failing to yield to the pedestrian at a crosswalk (infraction) and driving w/o a CA license (infraction).

I explained to him that I was hoping to have the 12500a charge dismissed entirely and told him that I'm in the country visiting on a non-immigrant K1 fiance visa and I'm not a California or a US resident. He said the K1 visa, the subsequent marriage to a California citizen and staying at her house demonstrates enough intent to him to successfully try me and that if I didn't accept his offer, he would push for the maximum sentence if he were to win at trial later. Maximum is 6 months in jail and/or $1000 fine. I doubt the judge would ever give me that sentence, but I didn't feel like pressing my luck, as well, the trial by declaration option does NOT exist for a misdemeanor charge.

I felt he was railroading me a bit and I quickly argued that he was wrong, that the K1 visa is a NON-immigrant visa and only grants me the right solely to enter the US and to marry my fiancee and does not grant me privilege to stay here; that my stay here can only be extended via an I-485 AOS adjustment that came 5 days AFTER the citation; that my true, fixed and permanent home was in Canada. I also showed him the what the DMV rules were for determining residency, as well as the 12505 rules, and as mentioned here in the forum by a few users, the prosecutor said the law is written vaguely enough for him to prove the intent for his case.

He told me the I-485 application itself, even if I filed 5 days after the citation, proves intent, even if I'm seeking US residency, not necessarily California residency. He again reminded me that if I choose to fight it, he'd seek the maximum penalty... I looked at my wife, she nodded, and I said I'd take the deal, he smiled and I sat down again.

The judge soon returned from recess, called me up in front of him, read the charges, I plead guilty and I asked for six months to pay the $1000, which was granted as well as traffic school for the 21950a failing to yield charge.

I'm happy that I won't have a criminal record now for this, which was my ultimate concern here, but I still find it quite ridiculous to get a $1000 fine for being a CA resident w/o a CA license when the CA DMV will not issue me a license in the first place because I'm not a US resident. Even more ridiculous was the 3 hour parade of people called before me getting off with significantly lighter fines for convictions such as domestic abuse, disobeying restraining orders, marijuana possession, failing to appear, etc.

To top it all off, we arrived back home to find an RFE in the mailbox from USCIS for my wife not having her 2007 and 2008 taxes done to include with her I-864. Yay.

I guess the moral of the story is this:

Until you have your California license in hand, (which you won't really be able to get until you at least get your EAD or your I-485 797C approval NOA) don't tell the cop you've been in the state for more than 10 days, and don't tell him you're living with your new spouse in the USA. in other words, as recommended by others here, lie your #### off!

God Bless America, but what a friggin' joke.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for your support and advice here, it was greatly appreciated.

Oh my God, What a nightmare .Sorry man.

[Stinkerpotsam 6]

Geez Louise..what a freaking "palarva" as my husband says...

I'm glad I read this though as he and I needed this info. CA for sure has a "dotted line" when it comes to who is a resident...basically whatever fits their needs at the moment.

We'll work get him a permit after reading this. Thanks for sharing.

[Miranda&John 0]

I guess the moral of the story is this:

Until you have your California license in hand, (which you won't really be able to get until you at least get your EAD or your I-485 797C approval NOA) don't tell the cop you've been in the state for more than 10 days, and don't tell him you're living with your new spouse in the USA. in other words, as recommended by others here, lie your #### off!

Really? I thought the moral of the story was always yield to pedestrians

Edited October 27, 2009 by Miranda&John

[josedetshane 0]

Hi! I was given a citation too for driving without a license and speeding.

I showed up in court, faced the judge, and showed him my valid driver's license from PI

but he said that it was not an international license so it was not valid at all.

He dismissed the charges on speeding because I was only running at 86mph ( Iwas just trying to pass the big big truck, unfortunately the responsible traffic officer was waiting for me, he was hiding at the dark spot of the freeway hehehe)

Now my husband is paying for the charges, 40$ a month for 14 months

BTW, we had our interview today, the interviewer did not ask about it but I told him and submitted him a copy the court order because it was above 500$. I wanted to be honest about everything beacuse the truth will set me free hehehe.

He said not to worry cause it was just a misdemeanor traffic violation. Not a felony. Our green cards are coming in two weeks, that's what he said. (THANK GOD!!!!)

thanks for posting here I support you! God bless

[Athena13 10]

what a bummer, $1000 fine? and those legal stuff makes me dizzy.

I'm in the same boat, lucky i don't want to drive with my Australian DL yet, while filing AOS. Got my SSN already but don't know if I can apply for California DL with that only. The DMV website is very vague on that. and their phone system is hopeless.

now after reading yours, I think i will wait for my EAD or something, or GC. But then who knows, the people in DMV might say 'hey why didn't you get a DL within 10 days of entering CA' etc........ and I don't know about my I-94 expiry date will give me trouble later or not.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You are replying to a three year old thread.

[Athena13 10]

You are replying to a three year old thread.

haha yes i know, just wanna give some credit to him for writing this event in such detail and helpful to others.

i think it's still true, or maybe i should start my own thread 'any K1/AOS people applied for CA driver's licence this year? (when and what documents did you need)'....

[usernameisdiff 0]

haha yes i know, just wanna give some credit to him for writing this event in such detail and helpful to others.

i think it's still true, or maybe i should start my own thread 'any K1/AOS people applied for CA driver's licence this year? (when and what documents did you need)'....

Its funny you asked whether they still do that I had applied and received my CA DL (before i even started my AOS) in Feb 2012 and now have both my Canadian and USA DL I just told them my wife lives here and I come on a regular basis the stupid part is you have to take the written and behind the wheel test again and I had to to do the behind the wheel test twice once for the car and other for my bike what a joke...35 years driving experience. well good luck getting yours

[Bbrz 1]

Having read this post, I made a concerned phone call to the California DMV and I was told the following:

I will be issued a Cali DL as long as I have a SSN and a Canadian passport verifying my identification. I will be issued it in the name (unmarried) on my passport. To change my name I need only fill out the appropriate change of name forms with them.

But I do not trust this information given what I have read on this post.

I'm having trouble dealing with the logistical nightmares of this visa process. It had all been going semi-well up until this point when I tried to get the appropriate information regarding importing my 2006 Toyota Corolla into the US for my personal use.

My 5 hours of phone calls today revealed that this is not a reliable or fiscally viable option for Canadian car owners any longer given that Canadian Manufacturers' refuse to issue compliance letters. No explanation has been given to me as to why this is no longer available to Canadian customers.

Crazymaking? Youbetcha.

Very sorry to read about your DL problems in Cali. You'd never say we Canadians were neighbours, eh?

Edited July 26, 2012 by Bbrz

[usernameisdiff 0]

Having read this post, I made a concerned phone call to the California DMV and I was told the following:

I will be issued a Cali DL as long as I have a SSN and a Canadian passport verifying my identification. I will be issued it in the name (unmarried) on my passport. To change my name I need only fill out the appropriate change of name forms with them.

But I do not trust this information given what I have read on this post.

I'm having trouble dealing with the logistical nightmares of this visa process. It had all been going semi-well up until this point when I tried to get the appropriate information regarding importing my 2006 Toyota Corolla into the US for my personal use.

My 5 hours of phone calls today revealed that this is not a reliable or fiscally viable option for Canadian car owners any longer given that Canadian Manufacturers' refuse to issue compliance letters. No explanation has been given to me as to why this is no longer available to Canadian customers.

Crazymaking? Youbetcha.

Very sorry to read about your DL problems in Cali. You'd never say we Canadians were neighbours, eh?

I never had to show them SSN as I don't have one yet just my passport and this was back in mar 2012 before I even started my AOS, I was told that all you have to do is get your car smog tested here in Cali and bring it to the DMV and they should transfer if you find out different please post it as I have my car in Cali just not transfered yet, I will do same if everything goes as planned

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

1) Most, not all, traffic Cops are uneducated high school dropouts. They live by the criminal codes thus arguing with them, especially on the side of the street, is fruitless when it comes to the law.

2) You are actually guilty as charged but hopefully you'll face a sympathetic towards foreigner type Judge.

3) You are not a visitor but an immigrant from Canada and you don't live in Canada anymore thus have to go with Cali law. Basically no driving for you until you meet the requirements for a license.

Love the bit about dying in a fire asap though, that gave me a good chuckle.

[huongkhin 9]

I was going to school in CA for a little less than 2 years and I was driving my dad's car when the CHP pulled me over and gave me 2 tickets. One for my GA plate and one for my GA driver license. $800 total.

I went to court. The CHP showed up. WTH! Patiently waited for my turn to speak and told the judge that I have no intent to become a CA resident because I was going to a private college. The car is owned by my dad and it's a loaner to me. Both case dismissed. The CHP wasted his morning for nothing.

Yeah, CHP officers wasted their time for that stuff while they didn't come when a guy with no insurance hit my car. If it was in GA, police would come right away.