Health care: Which System?

[_Simpson_ 250]

I have to get going

"I will be back"

[mawilson 2,133]

Rhetorical fearmongering of giant, single-celled blobs named 'government'Obama just doesn't fly anymore.

[DEDixon 39]

I wonder how many Americans become Canadians to get free health care?

I'm sure it would be easy for Americans to become Canadians, just a matter to immigrating.

Yeah, shouldn't have to consider this option, but just wondering if anyone has done it being that national health care is so great..... think about how secure one would sleep at night knowing health care is free, free, free.

I've heard though that the national systems won't spend over a certain amount of $$$$ on things like cancer, lung disease, heart disease and more.... they spend up to a certain amount then if you aren't better, you are in God's hands.

[Pooky 3,795]

Posted this on another thread, but it's just as relevant here.

The reason the US healthcare system is so damned ineffective is the insurance companies. They exist for one purpose only - to make a profit to be divided amongst their shareholders. Paying (or not) for healthcare of those they insure is the method by which they achieve this.

As long as health insurance is the primary method for the US citizen to obtain healthcare, the system will remain broken.

Any comparison with European or other healthcare costs is meaningless, as it is akin to comparing apples to cabbages. So the French pay a lot less per capita and get a better quality of healthcare. That's because their system is vastly different.

Until the for-profit motive is removed from the US healthcare system, we will remain as the highest average payers, receiving mediocre median-level healthcare.

Yes, the US has some of the best facilities, healthcare professionals and skillsets in the world, but they are only available to the minority. The average American never sees that. The average American has to fight tooth and nail to get their insurance claim approved when they get the most minor treatment. Is it any wonder that you hear so many radio commercials saying that "Health Claims Specialists" are one of the fastest growing careers out there? They need more people to deal with the mountain of paperwork trying to deny payment for doctor's visits.

Remove the insurance companies from the ground level of healthcare. Take the profit motive out of the equation. Instead of draining money from the system to shareholders, feed it back into the system to invest in medical resources, facilities, personnel, medical supplies. Sure, you can keep private insurance as a secondary line of coverage, much like the UK and Europe, but primary coverage should not be for profit. It should be to provide care.

And that is why even the new administration's healthcare plan will fail. It does not go far enough, is inequitable and still panders to the lobbyists. The new administration will get only one shot at healthcare reform and half measures, such as the ones currently proposed, will doom the system to failure. The part-reforms will cause healtcare costs to spiral out of control, as the insurance companies and drug manufacturers do their best to extract every last dime out of the market before it runs out of money.

Worse still, if this attempt at reform fails, there will not likely be political will to try a second time, so the mess that is left after this mash-up will be what the American people have to live with for the foreseeable future.

[NickD 203]

They sure know how to increase prices, told my son, he cost me 450 bucks including prenatal care, delivery, and three days in the hospital, his daughter cost him over 15,000 bucks with his wife staying in the hospital two days, wanted to keep her in an extra day, when she said she was fine and wanted to go home.

At first my kid thought his bill was only $3,600.00 that he had a 20% co-payment, but that was only for my granddaughter. At the request of our kids, either my in-laws or my wife and I spent most of our time as this was their first baby and kind of new to them. We changed her diapers with advice on feeding, a nurse would just pop in now and then to make sure everything was okay. It's not like they did anything to our granddaughter, she was being nursed and didn't even have to provide food. Doc came in to count her toes and fingers. Later my son fell off his chair with a $12,000 bill for his wife.

Listened to some guy again on PBS radio as to why medical expenses are so high today, mostly in the last twenty years they have literally skyrocketed. Liability was asked, stated in WI there was only forty claims made last year in the entire state of which only two were paid amounting to less than a million bucks. It's not liability, he honestly didn't know why it's so expensive, just said it was complicated.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well I've just been lumbered with a $250 bill for a bit of dentistry the wife had done a few months ago. I'm got an outstanding bill for another $300 for a ENT "procedure" I had done. And we're expecting another one for a biopsy the wife had to get last month.

We're probably looking at (at least) the best part of $1000 for little more than diagnostic stuff!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But, but, but - it's FRENCH!

you and your stereotypes

That's easy. I'll take the American system with a side of fries please.

Ill get what hes having and can you super size that?

We have some pretty big issues with our health care system but I dont get why people think government is the solution, I know my government and I dont want them anywhere near my health care.

Who said government is the solution? Getting everyone insured is part of the solution. Providing public insurance for those who cannot afford private insurance is part of the solution. You need to step back away from the rhetoric if you want to understand the real issues.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Being insured certainly provides the illusion that you're covered when you may not be - because either your condition was deemed to be "pre-existing" or it (and/or essential treatments for it) simply aren't covered by insurance plans.

The system as it stands needs to provide better value for money than it currently does, and the ethos that puts profit and cost cutting before patient healthcare has to change.

[mawilson 2,133]

Well I've just been lumbered with a $250 bill for a bit of dentistry the wife had done a few months ago. I'm got an outstanding bill for another $300 for a ENT "procedure" I had done. And we're expecting another one for a biopsy the wife had to get last month.

We're probably looking at (at least) the best part of $1000 for little more than diagnostic stuff!

Wow... diagnostic stuff costs money. Shocking!

[Niels Bohr 72]

At the eye exam, my Doctor just bought one of those retina scanning machines where it scans your entire eyeball and take a picture of the nerves in color! It costs an additional 40 bucks for that exam, but it was worth it. It provided more insights into my nerves and I could see them too in real time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well I've just been lumbered with a $250 bill for a bit of dentistry the wife had done a few months ago. I'm got an outstanding bill for another $300 for a ENT "procedure" I had done. And we're expecting another one for a biopsy the wife had to get last month.

We're probably looking at (at least) the best part of $1000 for little more than diagnostic stuff!

Wow... diagnostic stuff costs money. Shocking!

Its not that it costs money - its how much money it costs.

I don't feel that $1000 out of pocket (excluding the initial co-pays) is reasonable for what was done; and as I've said before the general attitude it inspires (and I've seen the effect this has on people) is to put their own health in danger rather than get things checked out because they're afraid of being bankrupted by the system.

Sitting in a doctors office for 45 minutes for a 5 minute appointment where a guy shoves a stick up your nose and bills you $300 for the privilege is a rip-off.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Private Pike

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

What would all you pro government healthcare folks do if the U.S. had to file bankruptcy? What do you think would be the first thing cut in that situation? Services for sure.

Obama trying to pass this in such harsh economic times is insane. Its the equivalent to maxing out all your credit cards while being unemployed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Goddam right, SON! pro government SUCKS!

Who needs services when barry is gonna service YOU for free! With one hand in your CROTCH and the other in your back POCKET!

Edited May 14, 2009 by Private Pike

[Niels Bohr 72]

What would all you pro government healthcare folks do if the U.S. had to file bankruptcy? What do you think would be the first thing cut in that situation? Services for sure.

Obama trying to pass this in such harsh economic times is insane. Its the equivalent to maxing out all your credit cards while being unemployed.

I want to government to regulate not distribute. Regulate and distribution are two seperate things. Removing government from healthcare would be bad for everybody. But, making regulation that are in balanced is from the government not the private enterprise. Without government, I'm sure the electric bill is through the rough and all your computer stuff are all INTEL products, GAS will only be from EXXON Mobile.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Well I've just been lumbered with a $250 bill for a bit of dentistry the wife had done a few months ago. I'm got an outstanding bill for another $300 for a ENT "procedure" I had done. And we're expecting another one for a biopsy the wife had to get last month.

We're probably looking at (at least) the best part of $1000 for little more than diagnostic stuff!

Wow your really gonna be pissed when that 1000 is taken out of your paycheck to pay for your neighbor.

Goddam right, SON! pro government SUCKS!

Who needs services when barry is gonna service YOU for free! With one hand in your CROTCH and the other in your back POCKET!

Meds are obviouslly to expensive too!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well I've just been lumbered with a $250 bill for a bit of dentistry the wife had done a few months ago. I'm got an outstanding bill for another $300 for a ENT "procedure" I had done. And we're expecting another one for a biopsy the wife had to get last month.

We're probably looking at (at least) the best part of $1000 for little more than diagnostic stuff!

Wow your really gonna be pissed when that 1000 is taken out of your paycheck to pay for your neighbor.

Goddam right, SON! pro government SUCKS!

Who needs services when barry is gonna service YOU for free! With one hand in your CROTCH and the other in your back POCKET!

Meds are obviouslly to expensive too!

MEDS!? Who needs fuckin' meds. Bourbon is the only medecin youll ever NEED!

Damn BOY, I thought you KNEW this!