Vietnam fiancee made very recent job change - interview just a few weeks away.

[Viking_in_Seattle 0]

Hello,

My VN fiancee quit her job about 12 days ago it wasn't working out for reasons I won't go into here. Our K-1 paperwork is being done by an attorney and is just about ready to be sent overnight to me. I leave for Vietnam in two weeks so I can be with her prior to the interview (I know I can't actually attend the interview).

My fiancee texted me 11 days ago to inform me of this change but the text got cut off (too long), so I only became aware of it today when we talked on the phone. She had planned to take time off from the job this month, so the job subject didn't come up in conversation until today.

Question: Should I try to get the attorney to update the employment information on the applicable forms, or is it not a big deal? If we don't change the paperwork, she will inform the Consulate at the interview of the change. I think we can get the change in, although the attorney may want a little more $$ to make this change since the paperwork was complete.

I've sent an email to my attorney asking what they think we should do, but I would like to get opinions here.

I met my fiancee in Jan of last year while touring Vietnam with some Viet Kieu buddies. I've been back to Vietnam 3 more times to visit her. We became unofficially engaged a couple of weeks after the 1st return visit in June of 08. I went back 1st week of September and gave her an engagement ring. We have travelled together to Dalat, Hanoi, and Halong Bay. I have met her entire family on multiple occasions -- many photos. I have hotel receipts, travel agent itineraries, boarding passes, chat logs, phone logs (Pingo), cell phone bills for international texts, etc. Only negative is I didn't think to turn on chat logging until late June, so I am missing logs from the first 4 months

My attorney said I have a lot of evidence, but I know that the VN consulate is very tough. My job, income, savings, etc. are definitely not an issue.

Thanks for any advice

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Question: Should I try to get the attorney to update the employment information on the applicable forms, or is it not a big deal? If we don't change the paperwork, she will inform the Consulate at the interview of the change. I think we can get the change in, although the attorney may want a little more $$ to make this change since the paperwork was complete.

I would say it would not matter much, they look at the sponsors job more than the benificiary.

She can let them know at the interview she left her job - since you are so close to the interview date.

Good luck!

[Anh map 2,098]

Dam Hoi is something that HCMC likes to see for K1's. Not required, but it's very typical. Did you have an engagement ceremony/party?

Don't worry about the change of jobs. Seems to be something that folks in VN do at the drop of a hat.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Dam Hoi is something that HCMC likes to see for K1's.

Excuse me for veering slightly off topic - Our engagement ceremony was called "Lễ Đính Hôn", rather than "Đám Hŏi". I had seen "Đám Hŏi" mentioned in this forum several times before our engagement ceremony, so I naturally asked my fiancee and her family what was the difference. They either weren't able to explain it, or just said there was no difference. My limited understanding is that "Lễ Đính Hôn" means "engagement", whereas "Đám Hŏi" means "marriage proposal". Other than the name difference, it looked pretty much like other engagement ceremonies I've seen. Same red and blue ao dai. Same procession of the groom's family with the gifts. Same big party afterward.

So, are these terms used interchangeably, or this is a regional difference? Most of the people who've mentioned "Đám Hŏi" seem to have SO's in the south, whereas my fiancee is from the central region around Hue city.

[Viking_in_Seattle 0]

Dam Hoi is something that HCMC likes to see for K1's. Not required, but it's very typical. Did you have an engagement ceremony/party?

Don't worry about the change of jobs. Seems to be something that folks in VN do at the drop of a hat.

We didn't have an official engagement ceremony. But I did present her the ring at her Grandmother's home, with her parents, 2 brothers, many aunts, uncles, and cousins present. We had quite a feast plus a lot of beer to drink. Many photos were taken, including one with me putting the ring on her finger and another shaking hands with her father. You think this is close enough? Do I dare refer to it as a Dam Hoi?

Thanks much for the advice.

BTW, just to clear, I am not Viet Kieu -- I'm a Caucasian born in Minnesota (hence the handle Viking_in_Seattle). My first trip to VN was with 3 Viet Kieu buddies - they did not know my fiancee. We met purely by chance.

[Anh map 2,098]

Jim, I've heard both terms used. My wife tells me that I was part of a Dam Hoi. But it said "Le Dinh Hon" on the wall between our names.

I will defer to our Viet bretheren here on VJ to answer the regionalism question.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

We didn't have an official engagement ceremony. But I did present her the ring at her Grandmother's home, with her parents, 2 brothers, many aunts, uncles, and cousins present. We had quite a feast plus a lot of beer to drink. Many photos were taken, including one with me putting the ring on her finger and another shaking hands with her father. You think this is close enough? Do I dare refer to it as a Dam Hoi?

In a word - No.

There's quite a few articles on the internet. Google "Vietnamese engagement ceremony" for the stuff in English. Here's an example:

http://www.tuvy.com/Countries/vietnamese/c...nt_ceremony.htm

Bear in mind that the actual ceremony will vary somewhat, depending on the cultural traditions of the family, and sometimes also on their religion. But wearing the tradition ao dai, the procession of the groom's family bearing gifts, the prayer ritual and exchanging of rings, the welcoming into the two families, etc. are usually common. The ceremony is usually followed by a big party, often 100 people or more. The whole thing could set you back a few thousand dollars or more.

I've read on this forum and others that the US Consulate in HCM considers the traditional engagement ceremony to be an essential part of a legitimate relationship, and will heavily scrutinize an application where this ceremony didn't take place. In fact, if you don't include some pictures from your engagement ceremony in your petition, I'd be willing to bet the consular officer is going to ask your fiance about it. Two interview questions I've seen repeated a few times here are "Did you have an engagement ceremony?", and "How many people attended the party?". The answers they want to hear are "Yes" and "80+".

BTW, just to clear, I am not Viet Kieu -- I'm a Caucasian born in Minnesota (hence the handle Viking_in_Seattle). My first trip to VN was with 3 Viet Kieu buddies - they did not know my fiancee. We met purely by chance.

No problem. I'm also caucasion. I think the same is true of the most of the people here with Vietnamese fiancees. In this case, that's not going to get you past not having an engagement ceremony. The people at the consulate are aware of cultural significance of the ceremony to the Vietnamese people, and it's a hurdle your fiancee will have to overcome at the interview. With only a few weeks left to the interview, you don't have time to arrange the ceremony now. My fiancee and I spent nearly 3 months planning our ceremony.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim, I've heard both terms used. My wife tells me that I was part of a Dam Hoi. But it said "Le Dinh Hon" on the wall between our names.

I will defer to our Viet bretheren here on VJ to answer the regionalism question.

Cảm ơn!

Hopefully, Phuong won't go ballistic that I'm posting these on the internet!

[Anh map 2,098]

Looks great. It was one of the best time's I've ever had. I wasn't always sure of what was going on, but it was a day I wouldn't trade for anything.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Looks great. It was one of the best time's I've ever had. I wasn't always sure of what was going on, but it was a day I wouldn't trade for anything.

Agreed! My ceremony took place at a pagoda. 20 minutes of chanting, kneeling, bowing, etc. I had NO CLUE what was going on! I just followed Phuong's lead!

What was really ironic was that we paid for two feasts - one at the pagoda for the guests and monks, and one at the party at a big restaurant in Hue. Phuong and I didn't get to eat or drink anything at either of them. We had to go from table to table welcoming people and offering toasts. Everyone else was drinking all the beer they could hold, and we were carrying champagne glasses filled with what could only have been watered down fruit punch (we both took one sip after the first toast, and never took another). What really hurt was when we were posing for pictures outside (we hired an over zealous professional photographer) and we could hear people inside occasionally yell out "Mot! Hai! Ba! Yo!!!!!". It was kinda like watching an Irish wedding, but not being invited to join in!

But, yes... it was an experience I'll never forget, and definitely one of the greatest days in my life!

[Melrose Plant 1]

Dam Hoi is something that HCMC likes to see for K1's.

Excuse me for veering slightly off topic - Our engagement ceremony was called "Lễ Đính Hôn", rather than "Đám Hŏi". I had seen "Đám Hŏi" mentioned in this forum several times before our engagement ceremony, so I naturally asked my fiancee and her family what was the difference. They either weren't able to explain it, or just said there was no difference. My limited understanding is that "Lễ Đính Hôn" means "engagement", whereas "Đám Hŏi" means "marriage proposal". Other than the name difference, it looked pretty much like other engagement ceremonies I've seen. Same red and blue ao dai. Same procession of the groom's family with the gifts. Same big party afterward.

So, are these terms used interchangeably, or this is a regional difference? Most of the people who've mentioned "Đám Hŏi" seem to have SO's in the south, whereas my fiancee is from the central region around Hue city.

The difference in terminology is undoubtedly because you're dealing with Hue. They really do talk funny there. My Hanoi engagement ceremony was called a Lễ Ăn Hỏi. That's just what they call it up north. It's the same thing. The Saigon people do not have a monopoly on the language. Just on VJ

[Viking_in_Seattle 0]

We didn't have an official engagement ceremony. But I did present her the ring at her Grandmother's home, with her parents, 2 brothers, many aunts, uncles, and cousins present. We had quite a feast plus a lot of beer to drink. Many photos were taken, including one with me putting the ring on her finger and another shaking hands with her father. You think this is close enough? Do I dare refer to it as a Dam Hoi?

In a word - No.

There's quite a few articles on the internet. Google "Vietnamese engagement ceremony" for the stuff in English. Here's an example:

http://www.tuvy.com/Countries/vietnamese/c...nt_ceremony.htm

Bear in mind that the actual ceremony will vary somewhat, depending on the cultural traditions of the family, and sometimes also on their religion. But wearing the tradition ao dai, the procession of the groom's family bearing gifts, the prayer ritual and exchanging of rings, the welcoming into the two families, etc. are usually common. The ceremony is usually followed by a big party, often 100 people or more. The whole thing could set you back a few thousand dollars or more.

I've read on this forum and others that the US Consulate in HCM considers the traditional engagement ceremony to be an essential part of a legitimate relationship, and will heavily scrutinize an application where this ceremony didn't take place. In fact, if you don't include some pictures from your engagement ceremony in your petition, I'd be willing to bet the consular officer is going to ask your fiance about it. Two interview questions I've seen repeated a few times here are "Did you have an engagement ceremony?", and "How many people attended the party?". The answers they want to hear are "Yes" and "80+".

BTW, just to clear, I am not Viet Kieu -- I'm a Caucasian born in Minnesota (hence the handle Viking_in_Seattle). My first trip to VN was with 3 Viet Kieu buddies - they did not know my fiancee. We met purely by chance.

No problem. I'm also caucasion. I think the same is true of the most of the people here with Vietnamese fiancees. In this case, that's not going to get you past not having an engagement ceremony. The people at the consulate are aware of cultural significance of the ceremony to the Vietnamese people, and it's a hurdle your fiancee will have to overcome at the interview. With only a few weeks left to the interview, you don't have time to arrange the ceremony now. My fiancee and I spent nearly 3 months planning our ceremony.

I guess I'll have to ask my fiancee why she never asked for a Dam Hoi -- and she will have to explain at the interview why we didn't have one. I do know that when we first got engaged, one attorney advised us to get married in Vietnam and do a full-up immigration application (not the K-3). So for about 2 days we did have some discussions about a wedding, reception, number of guests (100 +) , etc . But then another attorney strongly advised me against getting married in Vietnam for several reasons that made a lot of sense to me. So we went the K-1 visa route. I think my fiancee didn't ask for the Dam Hoi because she didn't want me to have to spend so much money -- and she knew I would have no family members there. I don't think her family is particularly religious. I'll just refer to it as an engagement party -- which is what it was. Obviously I hope you are wrong about the Dam Hoi being some kind of requirement.

[Anh map 2,098]

It's not a requirement. Just something that is typical. You've been there multiple times which is another big plus.

From what you've posted here I think you will be in good shape.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Anh map

[Viking_in_Seattle 0]

It's not a requirement. Just something that is typical. You've been there multiple times which is another big plus.

From what you've posted here I think you will be in good shape.

Thanks for the encouragement. I forgot to say before another reason I don't think my fiancee asked for a Dam Hoi is that she would rather I spend the money to make the an extra trip or 2 to Vietnam to see her. My last trip we spent two days on a junk in Halong Bay -- her first visit there. We also spent 3 nights in Hanoi -- also her first visit. I think she would pick that trip over a Dam Hoi every time. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure for many here the Dam Hoi was a great experience.

BTW, we are planning on having a simple and relatively cheap Las Vegas chapel wedding here in the US, but she has talked to me about returning to Vietnam after we are married to have a real ceremony. So I am not off the hook by any stretch.